OB Approved Overland Safety: Fire Extinguishers

[Ditch]

Long story short ...
Long time ago I left a so-called "reputable" dealership garage after a simple oil change. Before driving a couple of miles I noticed smoke rising from my engine compartment. Pulling off to the shoulder, I removed my child from the vehicle and within seconds the car was in flames. The fire department said it looked like a rag was sitting on the manifold and it had ignited. I had no experience, and there were no cell phones then. I couldn't prove who destroyed my car (no doubt a shop mechanic left the rag), so with only minimum insurance I lost everything that day.
I wished I'd had an extinguisher to have prevented a total loss. Needless to say, I raise the hood every time before pulling out of any service bay or garage parking lot.

Back to the subject ...
I have two questions.
First, in my reading all the info here, does anyone know if there are temperature limitations on these fire extinguishers? Not the water tank kind, but the chemical/powder kind you are discussing? As related to storing one in a vehicle, what's the highest and lowest outdoor temps the extinguisher can withstand while in a vehicle before damage would occur?
Second question, sort of related ... Does anyone keep a welder's blanket or fire blanket of some kind for fire emergencies with their extinguisher as a backup? Something to cover a fire to help suffocate flames or sparks?
I would appreciate feedback as I can't see investing all kinds of money into my vehicle and not be adequately prepared for such emergencies.
Thanks ahead.

 

[Corbet]

I've never looked up the storage temp ratings on my Halotron. But after being stored in the truck for years it worked flawlessly when I needed it to. My truck regularly sees high summer temps in the desert and plenty of sub 0°F nights in the mountains.

I don't carry a blanket. While it may work for some fires, most likely your going to have an engine compartment fire. And a blanket is not going to cut air off from the bottom. For the storage space required I'd opt for a 2nd extinguisher over a blanket.

 

[Ditch]

I've never looked up the storage temp ratings on my Halotron. But after being stored in the truck for years it worked flawlessly when I needed it to. My truck regularly sees high summer temps in the desert and plenty of sub 0°F nights in the mountains.
I don't carry a blanket. While it may work for some fires, most likely your going to have an engine compartment fire. And a blanket is not going to cut air off from the bottom. For the storage space required I'd opt for a 2nd extinguisher over a blanket.

That is great to know. Thanks!
I have a small gear bag I carry questionable things in like the extinguisher, propane canisters, candles, etc.; things that may be affected by extreme temp variations. When I get home or somewhere that requires time out of my truck, I take it out as well. It's become a real pain. But I am overly concerned for safety reasons I guess.

 

[WutHoLeChit]

Question: I may be an outdoorsman, but I also have a serious itch to scratch when it comes to car audio. I intend on dropping a solid sound system into my LX470, to include one or more subwoofers. Will the vibrations from the subwoofers cause any sort of issues or complications with the extinguishers? I'll be using 2.5 and 5lb ABCs.

 

[4wheelspulling]

In almost all my Jeeps, SUVs and trucks, I have had an fire extinguishers on board. The one time I did not, I needed one. I watched my Land Rover, Disco burn up in front of me and my children because I did not have one and the video store I stopped to return the video did not also. A fuel line ruptured with the motor still running, then to make matters worse, the aluminum hood warped enough to make getting the hood open almost impossible. In the 5 min. or so, for the fire department to get there, the flames were in the cockpit burning the interior of the Disco. Now in all my vehicles and cabin, I have a proper fire extinguisher! Oh and just to make things better, I just got the Disco, a couple of days before, put on a new set of off-road tires and did not have auto insurance on it yet! It was a total loss! Benz.

 

[Chadlyb]

In almost all my Jeeps, SUVs and trucks, I have had an fire extinguishers on board. The one time I did not, I needed one. I watched my Land Rover, Disco burn up in front of me and my children because I did not have one and the video store I stopped to return the video did not also. A fuel line ruptured with the motor still running, then to make matters worse, the aluminum hood warped enough to make getting the hood open almost impossible. In the 5 min. or so, for the fire department to get there, the flames were in the cockpit burning the interior of the Disco. Now in all my vehicles and cabin, I have a proper fire extinguisher! Oh and just to make things better, I just got the Disco, a couple of days before, put on a new set of off-road tires and did not have auto insurance on it yet! It was a total loss! Benz.

Wow....that was scary.

 

[4wheelspulling]

Question: I may be an outdoorsman, but I also have a serious itch to scratch when it comes to car audio. I intend on dropping a solid sound system into my LX470, to include one or more subwoofers. Will the vibrations from the subwoofers cause any sort of issues or complications with the extinguishers? I'll be using 2.5 and 5lb ABCs.

WutHoLeChit,
As long as you have your fire extinguisher securely tied down, you should have no problem. Where there is a problem, is when the safety pin gets pulled or is out and the fire extinguisher hits something or it falls on the handle! So Secure the extinguisher along with any loose items and you will be fine. Benz.

 

[Lost-Again]

Read the thread. All good info. +1 on the purple k type. Saves a lot of head ache if you can get to it (fire) in time.

 

[HeliSniper]

A small update/bump to this thread. I was reviewing what I had for safety equipment, I have a plastic handle valve ABC extinguisher in the back, but I want to have something mounted near my driving position in the cab as well as at the back near the cargo/tailgate area.

For dry chem type ... I have been reading that the 'A' type might not be a good idea for vehicles as it can corrode metal/connectors/electronics and when it gets hot it basically is impossible to remove the mess. Using 'A' type in an engine bay with lots of wire and connectors could actually cause MORE damage than a localized fire alone.

The other 'BC' dry chem seem appropriate but are not always as suited as the Purple K (BC) type.

I went with Purple K over an ABC or standard BC dry chem. It's the most effective of the 3 on a liquid fueled fire (and less corrosive to electronics than ABC dry chem) . I also wanted metal hardware, since I seem to always end up breaking the plastic ones.



I ordered two sizes and I will find a spot for both.

Amerex B410T, 2.5lb Purple K Chemical Class B C Fire Extinguisher

Amerex B479T, 5lb Purple K Chemical Class B C Fire Extinguisher

They both come with metal brackets. I think one might go on the front handle of my ARB fridge, which is center 2nd row, and I can grab it from my driver seat pretty easily. And the other, mounted up high on my cargo barrier where it wont be blocked by a fully loaded vehicle. I also have a tiny little BC extinguisher which I could put on the outside, like in the spare wheel on the tire carrier. Might be smart for when cooking on my tailgate or something.

I've had friends who have burned down vehicles, so I am a bit freaked out by that possibility.

Purple K very well might be the best way to put out a fire, but if you want to be able to use anything after putting out the fire, it sucks huge!!

We had big Purple K's hung in each of the four corners of our new hangers. When the Aircraft Insurance Inspectors saw them they said, "you should just let the aircraft burn if you plan on using those. They will do more damage than the fire." Very corrosive and invasive.
If you are saving a life and/or structure, by all means, it is a great extinguisher. On a vehicle where you might want to salvage something, use CO2.
JMHO

 

[Mike W]

Purple K very well might be the best way to put out a fire, but if you want to be able to use anything after putting out the fire, it sucks huge!!

We had big Purple K's hung in each of the four corners of our new hangers. When the Aircraft Insurance Inspectors saw them they said, "you should just let the aircraft burn if you plan on using those. They will do more damage than the fire." Very corrosive and invasive.
If you are saving a life and/or structure, by all means, it is a great extinguisher. On a vehicle where you might want to salvage something, use CO2.
JMHO

I wonder if he was confusing it for the type A that I was describing. (the "A" portion contains ammonium phosphate and it will digest aluminum and circuit boards in a matter of minutes. As a matter of fact you can't get it off the surface fast enough to prevent the corrosive effects) Or a mix. From what I have read, the purple K is not corrosive. Purple K is a dry chemical called potassium bicarbonate that is non-conductive and non-corrosive. It can be difficult to clean up, but that is not the same problem as corrosion.

Doing a little more reading, people still say purple k can be corrosive, but far less than an ABC. It is more effective on vehicle fires though. So take that for what you will.

I'll take hard to cleanup over a destroyed electrical system and corrosion. Pure CO2-only might very well be a better option, I will have to look into that more. I haven't seen as many co2 setups on vehicles though. The large nozzle/cone could be problematic for where I need to mount mine.

 

[HeliSniper]

I wonder if he was confusing it for the type A that I was describing. (the "A" portion contains ammonium phosphate and it will digest aluminum and circuit boards in a matter of minutes. As a matter of fact you can't get it off the surface fast enough to prevent the corrosive effects) Or a mix. From what I have read, the purple K is not corrosive. Purple K is a dry chemical called potassium bicarbonate that is non-conductive and non-corrosive. It can be difficult to clean up, but that is not the same problem as corrosion.

Doing a little more reading, people still say purple k can be corrosive, but far less than an ABC. It is more effective on vehicle fires though. So take that for what you will.

I'll take hard to cleanup over a destroyed electrical system and corrosion. Pure CO2-only might very well be a better option, I will have to look into that more. I haven't seen as many co2 setups on vehicles though. The large nozzle/cone could be problematic for where I need to mount mine.

Nope, not confusing Purple K for A, at the time the hangars were built Purple K was the latest and greatest, very expensive at the time also. We still have the Purple K's at the hangar, just not where anyone can use them. As far as the corrosive effects of Purple K, I do not know, I can only echo what the Insurance Inspector said.
I do know that Simple Green says it's biodegradable and safe to use on aluminum, but further reading tells you it's not safe for aircraft because of the ammonia and the actually make an Aircraft Simple Green. Not this has anything to do with Fire Suppression, just making a point that some things we think are safe for certain conditions may not be.
The more we help each other, the more informed we will all be. But still question everything and do your own investigation, then we all benefit.

On the first page of this post is a YouTube video with Jay Leno discussing CO2 extinguishers and that they are new on the market for the automotive world.
But at the temp it comes out would definitely cool the area down to below combustible temps.

 

[T.Shack]

Great information! I will normally keep my camping unit in my truck, but I probably should get another. it never hurts to have more then one!

 

[xplorr]

Thanks for all the great info here. Getting an extinguisher and mount is now at the top of my list.

 

[Fozzy325]

In Europe it is different so any Europeans here is the comparison

 

[Retinens803]

Can anyone vouch for this product or something similar?

 

[Soloshootsfirst]

Does anyone here have any experience with the Element fire extinguishers as profiled on Leno’s garage?

 

[bshagopian]

I'd like to make some recommendations. My background is in aviation life support and part of my job is the maintenance of the fire suppression systems that are used on board. Currently most aircraft use a Halon 1211 & 1301 based agent which works great against types A,B,C fires. It leaves little to no residue and is safe around sensitive equipment (like aircraft engines and electronics). The downside is its not manufactured anymore because it contains ozone depleting chemicals and is being phased out so it will be hard to recharge. However you can still find them on the market with recycled halon for the next couple of years until their no longer sold. Halon is being replaced by HFC-125 (also known as FE-25). Its a clean agent (no residue) and is good against A,B,C type fires. It also doesn't contain ozone depleting chemicals. Its dispersed as a gas, and works best in contained areas (like engine bays). It will not damage electronics or sensitive equipment and also helps to cool the fire down rapidly. HFC-125's down side is its not widely available outside of the aviation market and is usually used as a centralized flooding agent in a system, not as a hand held extinguisher. Which brings us to Halotron (HCFC-123 based) units. Halotron (also known as halotron1) is a quick evaporating liquid that turns into a gas state during dispersal, its rated for B,C type fires, is safe for use around occupied areas, and does not damage electronics or other sensitive equipment. While its not specifically rated for class A fires (wood, paper, cloth, rubber, plastics) when used in smaller quantities (less than 9 lbs) it will still have an effect on these types of fires by rapidly cooling and interfering with the chemical reaction of a fire. Lastly, CO2 extinguishers are common and widely available, disperse as a gas, are effective against class B,C type fires and rapidly cool the combusting items. It's not rated to class A because it can blow embers and combustible material around while being dispersed. Also CO2 can cause suffocation and frostbite in an enclosed area (like the interior of a car). I would only recommend the dry chemical and powder agents as backup or secondary for a number of reasons; 1) Their messy. 2) They cant put out what the agent doesn't touch (nooks and corners of an engine bay). 3) You need a larger amount to fight the same size fire compared to the other agents. 4) It's a lot heavier. 5) Not always effective against flare-ups or recurring fire due to a fires heat. There are also dispersal systems that activate directly into the engine bay either automatically or manually, but you should make sure you use it with the correct fire suppression agent that its rated for. I would also recommend a 5lb or greater bottle with a directional horn to guide the agent and bracket with a quick spring release that wraps around the bottle when stowed. That way it wont move around in the vehicle and be a danger during an accident and is easily accessed.
Regardless of what you choose, having a fire-extinguisher onboard can mean the difference between driving home or watching your fun investment go up in smoke. There's a lot of other great resources out there that I'll link below that can demonstrate or talk about automotive fire safety.

Fire Equipment Manufacturers' Association
H3R Performance Automotive Extinguishers
Wikipedia article on fire extinguishers
Fire safety to prevent vehicle forest fires
Fabfours article for fire suppression
Fourwheeler Network Article
YouTube: Trucks U Race Fire Extinguishers
You Tube: Jeep Wrangler Burns During Overland Trip

 

[bshagopian]

Does anyone here have any experience with the Element fire extinguishers as profiled on Leno’s garage?

I looked over the media and its demonstration on their webpage. The concept is sound and their explanation seems solid, but I'm not a chemical engineer. I think this would go well as an additional tool to a standard fire extinguisher but I would not rely on it as a single source to fight a fire. I would think the smoke cloud it generates can obscure your vision of the fire and its source. The dispersal is within a few feet so would work well in an enclosed area like an engine bay, but might be difficult in the open, especially if there's any wind that can blow the smoke away. It also doesn't do anything to cool the source down like CO2 or other agents, so it might not prevent flareups that cause the fire to reoccur. Currently its not certified by UL and not officially considered a fire fighting agent inside the US. That being said, I think as long as you know its limitations it would be good to have in the glove box and easily accessible. I would advise reading its MSDS before purchase and maybe buy an extra one to practice with on a grill/campfire in the backyard. This is an intriguing product and I think I might just get one for myself (and store it away from the road flares). Thanks for sharing! :)

 

[Hobie01]

I have the element. Have not used it yet. Mounted to the passenger seat bolts in the Forester with the bracketeer mount. Fits very well and works with so many different extinguishers.

 

[bnyc000]

This an amazing thread. I'm setting up the rear of my rig to have the common use items near the door and I wanted to ensure I had a good FE for emergencies. Thanks!