Enthusiast II
Well, while a debate over which caliber is more powerful could go on for decades. Me personally I would not be caught dead with a revolver. They had their time and place, but some of us have moved on.
OB Approved Camping with Firearms
- Thread starter Narbob
- Start date
.45-70 Revolver.
https://www.magnumresearch.com/bfr-big-frame-revolver/
I would still carry a carbine in bear country. A Henry 45-70 only weighs about 6# and it's far easier to aim and fire in a stressful situation than a pistol.
Influencer II
Regardless of the circumstances I always have a fire arm in arms reach if absolutely needed. When it comes to solo camping I can would rather have a firearm than not. It is up to the campers discretion if he or she wants to load LTL's or Lethal ammunition for a defense scenario.
Use common sense (even though it aint so common anymore) to justify critically injuring or killing an animal in a serious defense situation. The last thing any one wants to do is take a life without any reason behind doing so. --- Nobody really knows how they will react with their primitive survival instincts embedded inside their DNA until that rare moment arrives. That's why it is imperative to train with a fire arm in case that time does occur. Stay prepared & stay Frosty!
Use common sense (even though it aint so common anymore) to justify critically injuring or killing an animal in a serious defense situation. The last thing any one wants to do is take a life without any reason behind doing so. --- Nobody really knows how they will react with their primitive survival instincts embedded inside their DNA until that rare moment arrives. That's why it is imperative to train with a fire arm in case that time does occur. Stay prepared & stay Frosty!
Less-Than-Lethal is fine for animals, but I would not recommend it for defense against people. Most states specify that before you can use a firearm in self defense, you must be in fear for your life or at risk of significant injury. The firearm is not the ammunition, and the law typically does not differentiate between lethal and less-than-lethal rounds. Of course, this will vary by state; some states, such as Texas, allow for the use of deadly force to defend property.
Employing a firearm should be the last option, by the time anyone draws or raises a gun in defense it should be absolutely clear that there is no other option. The only report one should have to give to the police is "My life was/the lives of my family were in imminent danger, I shot to end the threat then called for help." Using less-than-lethal rounds can be problematic because it 1) might not end the threat and 2) opens you up to both criminal and civil proceedings if the DA or the aggressor decide that you were not justified enough to employ a firearm with less-than-lethal rounds.
It's best to leave less-than-lethal firearm ammunition to the police, who have qualified immunity. If you are going to use a LTL option, make sure it is bear spray or something that is not in any way a firearm.
Employing a firearm should be the last option, by the time anyone draws or raises a gun in defense it should be absolutely clear that there is no other option. The only report one should have to give to the police is "My life was/the lives of my family were in imminent danger, I shot to end the threat then called for help." Using less-than-lethal rounds can be problematic because it 1) might not end the threat and 2) opens you up to both criminal and civil proceedings if the DA or the aggressor decide that you were not justified enough to employ a firearm with less-than-lethal rounds.
It's best to leave less-than-lethal firearm ammunition to the police, who have qualified immunity. If you are going to use a LTL option, make sure it is bear spray or something that is not in any way a firearm.
Influencer I
Ive read a few of these but didnt read them all. Am a firm believer of having a firearm to protect yourself. Also a firm believer if you intend to use it for self defense to get formal training with it and learn it inside and out. knowing the laws for every state that you go into. This day and age a firearm convo is touchy.
Carrying everyday is a norm for me. So in the urban area or out on a trek something is always on me or an arms reach away! Ive spent alot of time in the back country horseback or hiking and backpacking and exploring new areas with the rig. Seems like you find more and more people venturing out into the forests to cut lose with drugs and alcohol or just being stupid. Ran into alot more people problems than animals.
The sad thing is you really cant trust ether. Guiding hunters you come across bears and predators alot of times going into a hunting spot 2 am or packing the game out. But like some have said if you have something they want theyll bother you if you dont you can normally get away from the situation.
With people its the deal where you dont know what you are going to run into. From my experiences people influenced by drugs and alcohol do some pretty stupid stuff. On public use land. You get people that dont respect things like they should and come across stuff that makes a person wonder WTF a huge amount of time..
Defusing the situation is always the first and best situation. But I know for a fact that the world isnt always a safe place. Always try to be the low key type more than hard target. But always open carry in the forest. Have had a few times where that person saw I was carrying and stopped what they were doing. Pray I will never need it but its there.
The topic of non lethal is great but id never trust a can of bear spray. Ive seen it drift back into the face of a person using it. Ive seen a police officer deploy a tazer 3 times on a guy that never did anything.
If someone is trying to take something from me that isn’t my life or anyone else’s life. That item can be replaced. Was always told that if that weapon comes out of your holster visualize your house. Your family. Your truck and anything else that you hold close because if something happens and you have to use that weapon. It could be the last time you see ether.
Its hard to believe that the world is full of threats and its all draped in camouflage. Guess the long story short is that anyone using a weapon for self defense should be fluent in the language of laws and know how to use it. Because all of our goals are the same. To stay safe have a fun time and put miles on them tires. Be the reality of public land and its users are scary so always be ready!! For man or beast!
Carrying everyday is a norm for me. So in the urban area or out on a trek something is always on me or an arms reach away! Ive spent alot of time in the back country horseback or hiking and backpacking and exploring new areas with the rig. Seems like you find more and more people venturing out into the forests to cut lose with drugs and alcohol or just being stupid. Ran into alot more people problems than animals.
The sad thing is you really cant trust ether. Guiding hunters you come across bears and predators alot of times going into a hunting spot 2 am or packing the game out. But like some have said if you have something they want theyll bother you if you dont you can normally get away from the situation.
With people its the deal where you dont know what you are going to run into. From my experiences people influenced by drugs and alcohol do some pretty stupid stuff. On public use land. You get people that dont respect things like they should and come across stuff that makes a person wonder WTF a huge amount of time..
Defusing the situation is always the first and best situation. But I know for a fact that the world isnt always a safe place. Always try to be the low key type more than hard target. But always open carry in the forest. Have had a few times where that person saw I was carrying and stopped what they were doing. Pray I will never need it but its there.
The topic of non lethal is great but id never trust a can of bear spray. Ive seen it drift back into the face of a person using it. Ive seen a police officer deploy a tazer 3 times on a guy that never did anything.
If someone is trying to take something from me that isn’t my life or anyone else’s life. That item can be replaced. Was always told that if that weapon comes out of your holster visualize your house. Your family. Your truck and anything else that you hold close because if something happens and you have to use that weapon. It could be the last time you see ether.
Its hard to believe that the world is full of threats and its all draped in camouflage. Guess the long story short is that anyone using a weapon for self defense should be fluent in the language of laws and know how to use it. Because all of our goals are the same. To stay safe have a fun time and put miles on them tires. Be the reality of public land and its users are scary so always be ready!! For man or beast!
Influencer I
The 19x. I love mine! Its the glock mullet.. business in the front and party in the back!!
I changed the sights on mine and that sucker is pretty neat.
My 2 cents, is carry if your comfortable doing so and the law allows you to. You should also have plenty of range time with what you decide to carry. Shot placement is what counts.
Influencer I
Boostpowered
Rank VI
Member III
As others have said national park and forest usually a no go unless your hunting with permit during season, state parks usally the same deal if there is a wildlife management area to hunt, i think these are awful laws for self defense aspect bit i understand its there to help keep poaching down.
Enthusiast III
If you want good info go to the source. https://www.nps.gov/search/?affiliate=nps&query=firearms rules
Enthusiast III
There is also a smart phone App that cover the Laws for all states. called ; CCW check it out at your APP store.
Pioneer III
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- Deb
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Enthusiast II
Actually, the law was changed in 2010, it is legal to carry concealed in national parks, as long as the state allows concealed carry which the park is located in. But it is not legal to carry in any building owned by the park service including bathrooms. They are considered federal buildings and concealed carry inside such buildings is prohibited by federal law. Just like at the post office.
Influencer I
So heres a question about this topic... was in the sporting goods store the other day. Stocking up on some ammo and they had a huge display for bear deterrent. Had bells and pepper spray. But they had rubber baton shotshells.. Had me thinking about this post. I am all for less lethal and know bear bells and pepper spray arent the greatest option. I am assuming the rubber bullets would really piss a bear off. I was handed rock salt shell by a game warden once to keep bears out of dumpster and grain shed. Would you go up against a bear with rubber rounds? Id pretty much just bend over and kiss my butt good bye!
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Pathfinder II
I do agree with you that most less than lethal options would just piss a bear off. Bear spray might buy you some time for a hasty getaway, but not much time. If running away, always try for downhill as their shorter front legs make them unstable, otherwise they’ll be on you like stink on a ...bear. And for that kiss goodbye, make it a quick one, no time for happy endings.
As I think was referenced earlier, if not easy to search for. Bear pray was significantly more effective in close quarters bear incidents than firearms. 67% vs 92% (i think) uninjured, and those that were injured while using bear spray sustained minor injuries not requiring hospitalization. The difficulty of accurately drawing and shooting a charging bear often times in brush or forest is pretty challenging and took an average of 4 shots to stop the bear.
To be fair it was one study and not a huge data pool but still it was pretty persuasive.
Anecdotally I have been pepper srayed and I have been bear sprayed. Bear spray is significantly more debilitating.
Additionally. The kiss good by could take awhile bears aren't really predators. They don't go for a quick kill. He would have a while as it held him down and ate him.
I think the rubber shotshells are so people can "feel" better (less guilty) about our interaction with nature. If the gun is drawn, it's to kill, not to scare, maim, or warn. And as has been stated above, I will trust bear spray more than my gun when it comes down to it.
I was wondering if we could shoot you as well so we could finally end the debate about which is better, bear spray or firearms? You just sound like a glutton for punishment...
So far I have avoided that. I'd like to keep that trend going. Though the bear spray incident occurred when I was slower to act than if the guy had a gun. In a similar instance I have had a gun pulled on me in anger. So accounting for that the bear spray was still more effective.I was wondering if we could shoot you as well so we could finally end the debate about which is better, bear spray or firearms? You just sound like a glutton for punishment...
Ok, for some reason I'm inclined to believe you. And I'm not sure I want to hang out with you, lots of good stories though!
