ABC News report: National Parks under fire now for racism

[M Rose]

So now that I read more alot of people say now its our duty to help get people outdoors? thats like forcing people to a new hobby they have zero interest in. If you take people to your outdoor hobby, does that mean you have to learn from them how to live like they do in the city? why cant people just do what they want instead of worrying about including everyone in everything they do.

No we aren’t saying force them... the soldiers my group took with us showed an interest... 3 out of the 4 in my Jeep a lone had never been in the mountains and couldn’t understand why we loved it so much and would spend all week long planning an adventure. The only way to tell some one why we really like it is to have them experience it for them selves... if the person doesn’t want to learn or experience what Mother Nature has to offer, then that’s on them... until they tell me I can’t do it because they feel the wilderness is a wild and unsafe place for a human to be. Then I have lived in the city and in the country, and you can’t take the country out of this boy.
The example of my son... yes I forced him to go with me... but he also forced me to go to the BMX Track and the Sk8 parks to watch him do what he loves to do... and that boy can thrash. Unfortunately I don’t have the ability to do what he does, and I have never had the coordination to accomplish even standing on a board. But I would jump on and act like a clown just to get a snicker out of him and his friends... But what he thought he hated he has since grown to love and even crave...
So no don’t force a friend to do what they don’t want to do... when you have to get your own kids involved make compromises and make the trips about them. The more involved the teen is in the beginning stages of the trip the easier it is to get them to engage at camp.

 

[M Rose]

I'm not sure if I missed something in reading all these posts or what, but I do know what I said so I want to respond to some who are saying its our "duty." or are feeling forced to do something you don't want to do. That is not what I said at all, and I don't think "duty" was suggested, although I may have missed it. I simply was thinking out loud about possibilities of things that could be done by those who would like to. OB isn't about forcing anyone to do anything except maybe to buy into the core principles, but even then I don't think forced would be the correct terminology. Why are these suggestions of helping others get interested in the outdoors any different than an OB RP to do trail clean up? We didn't make the mess, so why do I need to do the work? Its a voluntary thing and no one is forced to do trail clean up. Or what about inviting friends to go on trip with you? Is that really any different than some of these suggestions. Yes, they're your friends, but you invite them because you want to, and want them to enjoy, with you, the things you enjoy. But you're not forcing the to go. I can respect that you don't want to take otheres with you that you don't know, or that you just don't want to do it, but I would ask that you would respect others who might want to. Overland Bound is a highly diverse organization, that includes people from all walks of life, which includes worldwide members who perhaps don't look at things the way we do here in America, but, we all share a common interest as well that makes us a great microcosim of the world at large. So let's celebrate our differences and enjoy our similar interests, specifically overlanding.

Preach it brother... this is exactly what I was trying to say.
If you don’t want to share your enthusiasm for the outdoors; What are you doing here? Why did you buy a membership?
We preach it’s not what you drive, but that you are driving and exploring. What difference does it make what color or nationality you are, isn’t that the same thing as the Jeep vs Toyota or the $100,000 Land Yacht VS the stock Pinto? Both guys are getting to the same destination. So who cares... if some one wants to learn why we love doing what we are doing, then by all means it’s part of our brotherhood to mentor and teach, and show these people that any one can do it, and it’s not a racial country boy thing to do. Any one can Overland, any one can visit a National Park, any one can visit a National Forest, etc etc etc...
All this talk of racism over a poor miss treated human being is really getting petty. No one sees the black cop beat the poor old white guy, no one batts an eye when a white person is beat up and drug down the road by the local PD, just because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
We hold the individual accountable for his/her actions... no different in this situation it’s none of any ones business other than to make sure justice is done to the officers involved, because no man is above the Law... (If you get the reference then great, if not, well then I am truly sorry for you.)

So stop bickering back and forth about some political issue that we are told is supposed to make our blood boil, get off these keyboards and find someone to share our passion with.

 

[FishinCrzy]

Preach it brother... this is exactly what I was trying to say.
If you don’t want to share your enthusiasm for the outdoors; What are you doing here? Why did you buy a membership?
We preach it’s not what you drive, but that you are driving and exploring. What difference does it make what color or nationality you are, isn’t that the same thing as the Jeep vs Toyota or the $100,000 Land Yacht VS the stock Pinto? Both guys are getting to the same destination. So who cares... if some one wants to learn why we love doing what we are doing, then by all means it’s part of our brotherhood to mentor and teach, and show these people that any one can do it, and it’s not a racial country boy thing to do. Any one can Overland, any one can visit a National Park, any one can visit a National Forest, etc etc etc...
All this talk of racism over a poor miss treated human being is really getting petty. No one sees the black cop beat the poor old white guy, no one batts an eye when a white person is beat up and drug down the road by the local PD, just because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
We hold the individual accountable for his/her actions... no different in this situation it’s none of any ones business other than to make sure justice is done to the officers involved, because no man is above the Law... (If you get the reference then great, if not, well then I am truly sorry for you.)

So stop bickering back and forth about some political issue that we are told is supposed to make our blood boil, get off these keyboards and find someone to share our passion with.

I think you guys should start a third party platform with "personal accountability and social responsibility" as the centerpiece. Got my vote!

 

[M Rose]

I’m sure Gary and I could sit down and talk for hours on the phone and come up with something, or nothing at all.

 

[FishinCrzy]

I’m sure Gary and I could sit down and talk for hours on the phone and come up with something, or nothing at all.

Well, there's always foreign policy!

 

[Dave K]

I agree. Introducing friends and family to your passion is what life is about. Being forced to do it out of shame or privilege or whatever is ludicrous. When I think about sharing your lifes passion, there is only one scene form a movie that explains it in full detail. Not wanting to go, but supporting someone else passion... that's what Jeffrey Lebowski was all about.

Video really tied the thread together.

 

[USStrongman]

The ABC article was as bad as his interpretive dance... so theres that.

 

[Big G]

I think you guys should start a third party platform with "personal accountability and social responsibility" as the centerpiece. Got my vote!

Thanks for the interesting thought, but quite candidly I'm not interested in "party platforms" and don't like discussing politics. I've learned that one has there mind made up and I'm not going to change it and I don't want to make enemies over things none of us has the power to change. I am interested in enjoying building friendships with other Overlanders and enjoying the out of doors together whether we agree on everything or not. My perspective is simple, when I peel off my skin and then peel off the skin of a black person, or an Asian, or an hispanic person, etc., we all look exactly alike. Same organs, vessels, and so on and so on. Because of who I am, I believe we are all created equal as we have all been created in the image of God, and that all human beings have the same need. Please, I realize many of you may not agree with this statement, and many undoubtedly don't believe there is a God, and I respect that's what you believe, I am just telling you how I view all of humanity.

 

[BCMoto]

If you don’t want to share your enthusiasm for the outdoors; What are you doing here? Why did you buy a membership?

My enthusiasm is for the outdoors is to get away from people. I dont have a membership to OB so does that mean I should leave? If yes its not a problem just let me know.


Also on another note some of the others who dont go outdoors maybe cant afford to. Like if some got your son into racing full time but you have to pay for it. Some of the parents or people cant afford it.

 

[Jim SoG]

This thread is Bull Shit!

I can't believe the moderators allow this!

As THE site Mod, what did I allow that your so upset about, please note this is the second time you been asked by someone, either reply or move along......

Jim

 

[BCMoto]

I would really like to visit Australia. Do you know of any programs that would provide the ability for me to do so? I would prefer not to spend MY money but I feel it is my right to have the opportunity provided to me. You know, pursuit of happiness and all. LOL

Yea you can hitch hike there just ask people for money since thats what these others want, free handouts

 

[Cav 3724]

Beauty of this is we are in "America". We have the right and ability to openly, or not, discuss this and many other thoughts, within reason. Growing up, we were not rich, but we were not poor, enlisted navy family. Living in navy housing we were a ethnically diverse group of residents. Black, brown, Asian, white, American Indian, etc.. Sports brought us together. Friends were friends. I got into Boy Scouts at my first opportunity. Many of my friends didn't want any part of that. Some tried it, some liked it, others tried it, didn't like it and got out. It was their individual choice, not mine or anyone else's but theirs. One of my black friends just couldn't get a grip on the great outdoors, he didn't not see the fun in any of it. He tried to get me to play basketball and it did not do anything for me then or today. But we would ride bicycles all day long. We respected each other's decisions to either like or dislike a particular endeavor.
To use an old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. "
My dad grew up in Colorado in the great outdoors. It rubbed of on me and my two brothers. We camped all of the time, as a family, and in Boy Scouts. We always invited friends no matter their color. Friends were friends. Some chose not to go again. Their choice. Could we afford it on my dads E5 pay? Probably not, but we did it because it was our choice. We liked it. Just like over landing, it appeals to me. Maybe not everybody else, but it does to me. We in America cannot, nor should we force anyone to like or not like, participate in or not, if it is not what they choose. I can offer up things that I like to do to others but it is their choice to do it or not. Is it my fault or anyone else's fault that minorities are under represented in our park visitations ? I'm saying no. It is either because they CHOOSE not to do it, they have never had the opportunity, or they don't want to do it after being exposed to it. We cannot make people like anything. Maybe as ambassadors to the great outdoors we can and maybe try to expose others to what WE love to do. It's about all we can do. Never forget, we live in America.

 

[M Rose]

My enthusiasm is for the outdoors is to get away from people. I dont have a membership to OB so does that mean I should leave? If yes its not a problem just let me know.


Also on another note some of the others who dont go outdoors maybe cant afford to. Like if some got your son into racing full time but you have to pay for it. Some of the parents or people cant afford it.

I was not referring to you personally @BCMoto with my comment, it was a blanket post. I will call a person out (just like I did above with you) when I’m calling attention to someone.

 

[Big G]

I think you guys should start a third party platform with "personal accountability and social responsibility" as the centerpiece. Got my vote!

It would make a good platform that's for sure!!

 

[Big G]

My enthusiasm is for the outdoors is to get away from people. I dont have a membership to OB so does that mean I should leave? If yes its not a problem just let me know.


Also on another note some of the others who dont go outdoors maybe cant afford to. Like if some got your son into racing full time but you have to pay for it. Some of the parents or people cant afford it.

Chris, if you enjoy nature best by being alone or getting away from people my take is go for it. I hope you don't leave and I wouldn't suggest you should based on your desire of how to enjoy nature. Stay with us man.

 

[M Rose]

My enthusiasm is for the outdoors is to get away from people. I dont have a membership to OB so does that mean I should leave? If yes its not a problem just let me know.


Also on another note some of the others who dont go outdoors maybe cant afford to. Like if some got your son into racing full time but you have to pay for it. Some of the parents or people cant afford it.

No you shouldn’t leave, Just be a steward to the community... if you don’t want to take some with you fine, there are other ways to lead horses to water besides dragging them to the watering hole...

 

[oglj]

Yea you can hitch hike there just ask people for money since thats what these others want, free handouts

Hey man. One of the 'others' you're talking about here. Have you even read through this thread, or are you just reacting to the title with your gut response and assuming you're correct and everyone else has no idea how the world works?

No, we aren't asking for free handouts. We're asking for a discussion on how to make the outdoors more accessible to people who might not even be aware that it exists. I had to restructure my entire life to be able to enjoy the outdoors as I do now, and that has entailed a bunch of costs, like leaving my family and community and more lucrative job opportunities. If this 'other' born on the Great Plains wanted to see mountains, I didn't have any other choice. That's how much I valued getting outside, and that's a result of growing up surrounded by concrete and reading old Boy's Life mags. My story is pretty extraordinary for my demographic - I've had chances and opportunities come my way that my neighbors could only dream of; my approach to experiencing the outdoors is not sustainable nor applicable to everyone.

The question we're asking is how to get 'these others' access to the outdoors that doesn't involve uprooting oneself. I get it, you don't care. 'These others' aren't your people. I care because they are my people, and I recognize that they stand to gain all the benefits of enjoying the outdoors that you take for granted. What the article with the shitty headline posted by @grubworm is trying to say -- poorly -- is that every one of 'these others' has a vote, that the federal government is in charge of managing many of our wilderness areas, that there are many alternative uses for these areas, like resource extraction and real estate development, that could go to the highest bidder if they aren't protected by policy, and that 'these others' might not vote to protect our outdoors if they don't have any connection with them -- the same connection that you take for granted.

No one is asking you, personally, to do anything. We're laying out the state of the board and describing where all the pieces are. We're discussing solutions to connect 'these others' with our outdoor spaces without treading on anyone's liberties. If you want to be part of that discussion, then we, the others, would love to hear your ideas. If you only came to belittle the endeavor and make gross generalizations about your fellow americans without providing any better solutions, then what are you doing here, Chris?

 

[sabjku]

This problem is reflected everywhere. Not being interested in something is different then racism. In some cases you can change the environment to make different sub groups feel more welcome and invited. I don’t really think you can change the wilderness. But they could make efforts to advertise the idea of camping and exploration to a more diverse community. My wife is a person of color and I can see how these situation can arise. A simple media effort directed towards a broad yet more diverse community would solve some of these issues. I hear spots on my local sports talk station advertising getting into nature. I feel a better ad campaign could help start a change in this situation.

REI took this approach on a couple of years ago. Look at their ads now. They've done a great job with promoting the outdoors to everyone. But, at the end of the day, everyone has the same equal right to choose what they like to do with their time.

If I want to go outside and camp, that's what I do. What about the NFL? It's about 70% African American. Should other races claim that the NFL is racist towards Whites/Asians/Hispanic etc? This stuff has gotten beyond ridiculous really.

 

[topper142]

I am in an interracial relationship. My wife doesn't like the outdoors, and I do. I was planning on trying to talk her into some trips out west, but I doubt she'll go so I was going to spend time with my grandkids and even spend some time alone. Now I think I've picked the wrong retirement hobby. I just joined Overland Bound, and this is the first thread I've read. Anyone want to buy a Jeep?

 

[sabjku]

I am in an interracial relationship. My wife doesn't like the outdoors, and I do. I was planning on trying to talk her into some trips out west, but I doubt she'll go so I was going to spend time with my grandkids and even spend some time alone. Now I think I've picked the wrong retirement hobby. I just joined Overland Bound, and this is the first thread I've read. Anyone want to buy a Jeep?

Has she ever tried camping at all? I think most of it comes down to how comfortable you make the experience. Roof top tents tend to help, as I know it makes many feel safer off the ground. Toss in a Mr. Buddy Heater in the winter and a small fan in the summer, and you're good to go! With that said, it's not everyone's gig!