It just saddens me that everything gets made into a race issue. Its not something i believe most all americans think about in their everyday lives. People are just people to nearly everyone.
ABC News report: National Parks under fire now for racism
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Yeah dude. When we built the interstates, the federal government dictated where they would go and what they would look like. The engineers were specialists in moving large volumes of traffic through mostly open areas. When they applied that concept to urban settings, a few things happened:
1. They neglected the transportation needs of everybody living within the cities, who would prefer lower speeds and more spread-out roadways that allow easier access to anywhere else in the city.
2. The project required contiguous real estate. Real estate is expensive, so we bulldozed poor neighborhoods who couldn't afford the political capital to resist. Because of our nation's history of slavery and segregation, those poor urban neighborhoods were often populated by black or other minority americans.
3. The communities the freeways ran through now enjoyed a concentration of air pollution from all the vehicular emissions. It's the reason why black and brown americans experience disproportionate rates of asthma.
Which, coincidentally, acccounts for the increased morbidity in these populations due to COVID-19.
Yes, breathing is racist. It sucks. I didn't ask for my breathing problems. No one in my neighborhood did. It'd be swell to have grown up somewhere with an abundance of fresh air, but that's the price my community pays for being poor in an urban area.
There are a huge number of knock-on effects from our country's racist beginnings that persist today. Why does everyone here insist on denying that?
And, for anyone who didn't read the article past the incendiary title, the case that authors Ebbs and Dwyer are making is that the national parks are losing out on a lot of representation and advocacy in the voting booths -- if I'm a brown guy in the hood, why would I vote for a measure to protect the outdoors when I don't see any benefits to my community from doing so?
Does anyone in this thread have a response to that argument?
Does anyone in this thread have a response to that argument?
Influencer III
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WTH. I was making a broad comment about all swathes of city population. I have no intention of debating politics from 80 years ago.
They may make that point in a very small amount. It was clearly written to capture the race bating of the day.
Plenty of minorities outdoors and in our parks. About the same percentage as they are in the overall population.
Just more race baiting during an election year.
Just more race baiting during an election year.
Dale and Melanie Lomax
Rank I
Contributor I
I am new to overlanding and me being a brown person do have concerns when I get out there, but I will not let that deter me from enjoying this great country. Since I am a member of Overland Bound I would hope when I reach out to you all we will be treated as part of the overland community. I am excited about this new venture!!
Those politics have shaped the world in which we exist today. There's nothing to debate on that front. Now, given our history, we're trying to figure out how to move forward.
Member III
I have a hard time with their numbers , any time I’ve gone to a National park I’ve seen a great range of nationalities there at least in the more touristy parts
I'm also a brown guy. I grew up in a shitty neighborhood in the midwest and went camping twice in my life before moving to Arizona. Didn't own a car until the start of quarantine this year. Still became a seasoned outdoorsman over the years, and now that I have the truck I'm looking forward to getting out even more.
Agreed with Vicki, there are a number of challenges that I've had to overcome. I had to make sacrifices that my white peers can't understand -- I cried, and got over it. I hope future generations never need to do the same.
One way: more rail lines, though maybe buses might be easier to start, to get poor urbanites more exposure to the outdoors. So many of these issues are tied to wealth and access. Lowering the barriers of entry into outdoorsmanship would go a long way toward preserving the art in the US.
See yall on the trails.
Agreed with Vicki, there are a number of challenges that I've had to overcome. I had to make sacrifices that my white peers can't understand -- I cried, and got over it. I hope future generations never need to do the same.
One way: more rail lines, though maybe buses might be easier to start, to get poor urbanites more exposure to the outdoors. So many of these issues are tied to wealth and access. Lowering the barriers of entry into outdoorsmanship would go a long way toward preserving the art in the US.
See yall on the trails.
Member III
So guys as a Members Rep for OB I want to encourage everyone to remember our Core Principles and things we are not to discuss. Some of the comments are getting pretty close to being political and a bit biased. There is no question that things are very touchy right now so let's be careful how we respond in this thread. There are many people of color that belong to OB and I for one don't want to alienate anyone from our ranks. I want to say to Dale Lomax that to my knowledge there is no "color" bias on the part of Michael and Corey or any of us hopefully, and I am confident you will welcomed with open arms out on the trail and in your region by OB members.
Traveler III
Ok, lots going on here.
First: Read the article.
Second: Take a breath and think.
The authors are bringing to light a statistic that should worry anyone who loves the parks: That there is severe underrepresentation within the Parks system as well as in those they serve.
Support for parks is more important now than ever. We need as many people to get involved as possible. If advocacy was working, representation would better reflect the population. The fact that it doesn't, and we can prove it, means theres more work to do.
Now, the "why" is complicated (but also not) and can be boiled down to systemic racism for the sake of brevity (as the article does)
If you think black and brown people dont like the outdoors "because reasons" pertaining to personal choice, that's problematic and you should rethink how and why that could be possible. Chances are, there are outside forces at play when an entire demographic is somehow left out of a segment.
Assuming this entire group just isn't interested as a whole is not only statistically unlikely, but also conceding there is something different about this group. Lumping it into personal choice from there is stereotyping and both lazy and racist.
There is plenty of reading material available to learn about many segments of our history most of us didn't learn in school and how they affect our current social and political systems to restrict POC from inclusion (as it applies here) as well as a host of other realities.
I will defer to other members who have direct experience with these lived experiences to elaborate further as I'm not equipped to.
TL;DR
Reacting to clickbait is never wise. Read. Process. Listen.
First: Read the article.
Second: Take a breath and think.
The authors are bringing to light a statistic that should worry anyone who loves the parks: That there is severe underrepresentation within the Parks system as well as in those they serve.
Support for parks is more important now than ever. We need as many people to get involved as possible. If advocacy was working, representation would better reflect the population. The fact that it doesn't, and we can prove it, means theres more work to do.
Now, the "why" is complicated (but also not) and can be boiled down to systemic racism for the sake of brevity (as the article does)
If you think black and brown people dont like the outdoors "because reasons" pertaining to personal choice, that's problematic and you should rethink how and why that could be possible. Chances are, there are outside forces at play when an entire demographic is somehow left out of a segment.
Assuming this entire group just isn't interested as a whole is not only statistically unlikely, but also conceding there is something different about this group. Lumping it into personal choice from there is stereotyping and both lazy and racist.
There is plenty of reading material available to learn about many segments of our history most of us didn't learn in school and how they affect our current social and political systems to restrict POC from inclusion (as it applies here) as well as a host of other realities.
I will defer to other members who have direct experience with these lived experiences to elaborate further as I'm not equipped to.
TL;DR
Reacting to clickbait is never wise. Read. Process. Listen.
This.
Underserved communities have no idea the "wilderness" exists. Before saying this is hogwash, maybe think about who is hearing the message and who isnt?
Dave K
Rank IV
Off-Road Ranger I
I am a old white guy and have been camping, backpacking, Boy Scouts, mountain climbing, rock climbing, fishing and just about anything outdoors all my life. In the 70s and 80s one of climbing partners was black, we heard so many comments. About him rock climbing, his race, can’t believe him can climb that well (we were 5.11 trad climbers). I went blows over a remark when he wasn’t there. He would tell me about all the stuff his urban friends would make, sleeping on the ground, bears, snakes, “not a place for a brother to be”.It Was a bit of anomaly for a person of color to be “out there” at that time.
We need to get EVERYBODY using the outdoors. Maybe a outreach? If there is a feeling by some that they are not welcome, we need to change that. Saying “they” are full of it, is part of the problem. How many times do we a post about somebody wanting to get started? Most here tell them to just go, they are are fearing their unknown. Next time I see a post like that, I will offer to take a trip with them. I prefer solo most days. Your mileage may vary.
We need to get EVERYBODY using the outdoors. Maybe a outreach? If there is a feeling by some that they are not welcome, we need to change that. Saying “they” are full of it, is part of the problem. How many times do we a post about somebody wanting to get started? Most here tell them to just go, they are are fearing their unknown. Next time I see a post like that, I will offer to take a trip with them. I prefer solo most days. Your mileage may vary.
In Canada we have an issue with aboriginal land claims racism. It is real. It exists. Our Police Forces are the biggest offenders. Most of Canada acknowledges it. We want to correct that. It won't be free. The USA has the same issue to but the real visible issue internationally is how you treat black people. Not that we are better but we acknowledge our racism. We want to change. We also have that racism issue with black Canadians. The replies on this thread are truely disheartning. Denial won't make the issue go away. Our biggest institutions like National Parks are the biggest issues, in Canada and the USA. I believe we need to listen to our children, they see it, they know, listen and learn.
This is the only point to discuss......
23% of visitors to the parks were people of color, 77% were white. Minorities make up 42% of the U.S. population.
In an equal society all races will visit the National, publicly funded monuments. That stat says we have a problem. Our kids, under 10 will likely say that is true. We have a problem.
This is the only point to discuss......
23% of visitors to the parks were people of color, 77% were white. Minorities make up 42% of the U.S. population.
In an equal society all races will visit the National, publicly funded monuments. That stat says we have a problem. Our kids, under 10 will likely say that is true. We have a problem.
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Member III
I absolutely love our National Parks and some of them are embedded in my memory because as a kid growing up in the 50s and 60s our family traveled every Summer for two or three weeks at a time, camping with either a small trailer or a pickup truck camper. I've been to a number of them across the country and where I live now I'm only an hour and a half from Crater Lake NP which is breathtaking. It concerns me greatly to think they may be shut down and I can't comprehend how closing them helps anyone gain an appreciation for, or access to, these amazing parks.
Bear with me here as I think out loud so as to get some of your thoughts. I know that there is an organization that takes veterans out on the trail for the day so they can partake of what the outdoors has to offer. For the life of me I can't think of the name. So, what if those of Overland Bound, who live near those communities that are not able to get to the NP's, connected with those communities in some way and put together a RP where kids, or whomever, were taken to a nearby NP and let them experience the grandeur and mystique of these parks? I'd love to hear your thoughts and possible ideas on how to make this happen. Like I said, just thinking out loud.
Bear with me here as I think out loud so as to get some of your thoughts. I know that there is an organization that takes veterans out on the trail for the day so they can partake of what the outdoors has to offer. For the life of me I can't think of the name. So, what if those of Overland Bound, who live near those communities that are not able to get to the NP's, connected with those communities in some way and put together a RP where kids, or whomever, were taken to a nearby NP and let them experience the grandeur and mystique of these parks? I'd love to hear your thoughts and possible ideas on how to make this happen. Like I said, just thinking out loud.
Traveler III
In a similar vein, more programs taking underserved and inner city youth to take part in outdoor activities. I have a buddy currently working in New Orleans doing exactly that. Many of the kids he works with have never left a 5 block radius of where they live, let alone seen the ocean or wetlands.
Contributor III
I am happy to see this thread become about welcoming into people into nature and why i enjoy the overlanding community. When i read the article, it didnt seem to be a threat but about how to introduce the outdoors to all people. Hopefully in a generation there will be more families with memories of traveling to National Parks like many white families have.
