Starlink for Overlanding Build & Mods

[old_man]

Let me clarify some of the roaming questions, being an aerospace engineer and working in this field, I have intimate knowledge of how this all works.. In the beginning, each Starlink satellite would talk to a subscriber as it passed overhead and directly relay the signals back to an ground station in the general vicinity. Each ground station could only handle so many simultaneous conversations. By making you register, it somewhat tied you to a particular ground station and kind of reserved you a slice of the pie. Many of the older satellites still work that same way.

The newer satellites work in a mesh network configuration and converse between themselves using lasers handling what is call back haul. That way, if your "local" ground station is busy, it could hop between one or more satellites and get to a free ground station connection. This is the wave of the future. It allows for load balancing and handling concentrations of users in one area or areas without ground stations, such as over the oceans.

This local ground station limitations is the one of the biggest reasons why mobile use of Starlink is sketchy and problematic. The whole Starlink system needs to get updated to handle hand offs between ground stations much like cell phones do. Literally hundreds of new satellites with this capability are being put on orbit and it is increasing daily. This mesh networking is not a simple task and takes significant computing resources, development, and staging. This technique has progressed to the point where one of the major airlines has recently been working to use Starlink on its airplanes in flight.

 

[ProtonDecay]

I

Is there any sort of price (monthly) lock?

Jim

My $0.02...

I am currently in for $654 for the dish plus $110 per month for service. There is no lock and the warranty is only 12 months. So, caveat emptor.

Still, this seems fair to me and while Elon has demonstrated a willingness to charge what the traffic will bear I expect other services to be available within a few years and provide some, albeit limited oligopolistic, price sensitivity.

I haven't done any kind of financial breakdown, but the low starting price (amortized over let's say 5 years) seems to justify the slightly higher monthly.

Despite the PVC housing I figure the equipment will physically outlast the viability of the electronics, so expect to pay for a hardware upgrade within 5 years anyway.

 

[old_man]

oligopolistic
I thought I was the only one around here to use two dollar words

 

[Alanymarce]

Perhaps a question answered somewhere in the thread, or in the material available from Starlink, however...

I understand that any block to the satellite is a concern. WHat do we do when it's raining? Is an umbrella a barrier? How about the rain itself?

 

[ProtonDecay]

Coming up on 1 year on the waiting list....

I can sympathize with that, having signed up on 7-Apr-2021. A couple of thoughts.....

1) My January 2022 delivery estimate from Starlink was end-2022, so I was pleasantly surprised when they emailed it was available a couple weeks back. Depending on how many are in the queue for your area you hopefully will not have to wait much longer.

2) As @old_man has kindly pointed out. The newer version Starlink satellites have the ability to route data via laser to each other, meaning if the current groundstation/POP combo(s) for that satellite are at capacity, the data can be routed through another satellite to an uncongested groundstation/POP. What this means is that Starlink is less constrained by location of a given Dishy than before (this also helps roaming). I think this is why I got my equipment faster than estimated.
a) Side note. Theoretically, sending data between far-flung locations, like US to India, should be faster via Starlink than a wholly terrestrial network of undersea fiber optic cable, assuming Starlink can unpack the packets and figure that out on the fly, space lasers being far faster and much greater bandwidth than optic fiber, all other things being equal.

3) Many users on other sites (rhymes with Let It) report being able to sign up for service at an un-congested location near to their congested location and then getting their equipment very quickly. It seems (per Elon) that all new units are shipping with "roaming=true", so where you put the unit once you get it is really only constrained from an overlanding perspective by local law (i.e. blocked in India currently) and the capacity of the (now meshed, so much greater) overall network from that location.
a) Some users are recently reporting good connectivity while underway on open sea, although waiting for confirmation on whether distance to shore is a limit.
b) And Starlink has published that they are actively working with some airlines for in-flight service. So, the mobile part seems to be opening up quite quickly even though it is not yet officially sanctioned.

 

[DRAX]

Perhaps a question answered somewhere in the thread, or in the material available from Starlink, however...

I understand that any block to the satellite is a concern. WHat do we do when it's raining? Is an umbrella a barrier? How about the rain itself?

I'm not sure why you would cover the "dish" itself due to weather.

From Starlink's website...

Weather resistant
Designed and rigorously tested to handle a wide range of temperatures and weather conditions, Starlink is proven to withstand extreme cold and heat, hail, sleet, heavy rain, and gale force winds – and it can even melt snow.

 

[ProtonDecay]

Perhaps a question answered somewhere in the thread, or in the material available from Starlink, however...

I understand that any block to the satellite is a concern. WHat do we do when it's raining? Is an umbrella a barrier? How about the rain itself?

Good questions. Yes, plants and hardscape obstructions can quickly make reception untenable, although in my experience having a large olive tree and my two-story house somewhat close to the dish have not been factors.

Re inclement weather, Starlink says, "Starlink is proven to withstand extreme cold and heat, hail, sleet, heavy rain, and gale force winds – and it can even melt snow. "

Here are pics of where I am currently testing (Dishy is that little white rectangle at the bottom) and the speed.....

 

[Alanymarce]

I'm not sure why you would cover the "dish" itself due to weather.

From Starlink's website...

Good point ( I should have read all the information). So - not a problem with rain on the dish.

How about rain in terms of acting as a barrier to the signal? Some of the rain in which we've travelled is very heavy. How about snow?

If subsequent posts answer this I apologise for time-wasting.

 

[DRAX]

Good point ( I should have read all the information). So - not a problem with rain on the dish.

How about rain in terms of acting as a barrier to the signal? Some of the rain in which we've travelled is very heavy. How about snow?

If subsequent posts answer this I apologise for time-wasting.

As with all satellite uplinks/downlinks there's no simple answer to that question other than "it depends." :D It depends on the severity of the storm, the density/depth of the storm clouds, the position of the satellites in relation to the storm and your dish, etc. Since the dish is able to generate heat to melt snow then snow build-up itself shouldn't be a problem, however some people have had signal blockages in the snow/cold due to...cats. Cats laying on the dish because it's warm. :D

 

[old_man]

2) As @old_man has kindly pointed out. The newer version Starlink satellites have the ability to route data via laser to each other, meaning if the current groundstation/POP combo(s) for that satellite are at capacity, the data can be routed through another satellite to an uncongested groundstation/POP. What this means is that Starlink is less constrained by location of a given Dishy than before (this also helps roaming). I think this is why I got my equipment faster than estimated.
a) Side note. Theoretically, sending data between far-flung locations, like US to India, should be faster via Starlink than a wholly terrestrial network of undersea fiber optic cable, assuming Starlink can unpack the packets and figure that out on the fly, space lasers being far faster and much greater bandwidth than optic fiber, all other things being equal.

It is good to see someone recognize that finally satellites can actually be faster than terrestrial cable. I worked on writing data traffic handling for a satellite called STPSAT6 for Northrup Grumman and NASA. You can find it on WIKI. It stood a proof of concept satellite for earth to ground and satellite to satellite laser communications. I loved seeing that StarLink is using similar satellite to satellite laser communications in a constantly changing mesh network. It is a far cry from me watching Sputnik going up when I was a kid.

 

[old_man]

As with all satellite uplinks/downlinks there's no simple answer to that question other than "it depends." :D It depends on the severity of the storm, the density/depth of the storm clouds, the position of the satellites in relation to the storm and your dish, etc. Since the dish is able to generate heat to melt snow then snow build-up itself shouldn't be a problem, however some people have had signal blockages in the snow/cold due to...cats. Cats laying on the dish because it's warm. :D

There are actually two different dishes from SpaceX, the older round dish and the new flat dish. The new flat dish actually automatically locks on and tracks a satellite. Because of its shape, it can get blown around by the wind, but it tries to compensate. It is not designed to really handle highway speeds. The old round dish is less directional and does not move. It has a larger view/window on the sky but because of that, it has less gain.
Having been in the satellite business for decades, along with having DirecTV since it came out, you do see signal fading with heavy clouds, rain, or snow buildup on the dish. That is a fact of life for high frequencies used in satellites. The new 5G phones do not penetrate through walls as well as the lower frequency 3G and 4G. The new high band WIFI has serious problems with penetrating even wooden walls in a house and dies off quickly just propagating through the atmosphere. You pay your money and take your pick. Physics is a bitch.

 

[DRAX]

There are actually two different dishes from SpaceX, the older round dish and the new flat dish. The new flat dish actually automatically locks on and tracks a satellite. Because of its shape, it can get blown around by the wind, but it tries to compensate. It is not designed to really handle highway speeds. The old round dish is less directional and does not move. It has a larger view/window on the sky but because of that, it has less gain.
Having been in the satellite business for decades, along with having DirecTV since it came out, you do see signal fading with heavy clouds, rain, or snow buildup on the dish. That is a fact of life for high frequencies used in satellites. The new 5G phones do not penetrate through walls as well as the lower frequency 3G and 4G. The new high band WIFI has serious problems with penetrating even wooden walls in a house and dies off quickly just propagating through the atmosphere. You pay your money and take your pick. Physics is a bitch.

Good to know. I personally have no need for in-motion use of Starlink but I would love to get ideas for a permanent, folding mount that I could mount to the trailer's roof rack. Not a deal breaker since it seems to be pretty easy to just plop on the ground with the ground mount.

My wife and I are still at least a year away from thinking about more long-term/full-time travel where Starlink would make sense, but that's really not too far away and Starlink seems to be improving fairly quickly.

 

[Firemom]

Something to keep in mind is that, currently, Starlink is not really a viable option for overlanding/mobile use outside of the Starlink zone you're in. By default, roaming is disabled which means as soon as you leave your zone you have no service regardless of the fact that there is signal. You probably know this already as it's also talked about in the link provided in the original post, but wanted to make sure and mention it so people know what to expect. I do tech work from home and would love to have decent internet out in the middle of nowhere since I can work anywhere that has reliable internet, so this is definitely something I'm interested in and will be watching this thread to see how it goes. Once roaming/portability is working well then that will really open up not only travel options but also where we can live.

Howdy Drax,

Just a heads up. The system works very very well even when you are far far away from your service address. Our service address is in South Dakota and we are currently in central Arizona. We had the same concerns prior to purchase but after a long conversation with Kelly OB#2032, We ordered ours with confidence. We have not been disappointed. As it was explained to me, if you aren’t in your service area you don’t have priority so if your trying to us it in a congested area, you may have slow or no service. As we tend to avoid congested areas like the plague, I don’t think that will be an issue.

 

[DRAX]

Howdy Drax,

Just a heads up. The system works very very well even when you are far far away from your service address. Our service address is in South Dakota and we are currently in central Arizona. We had the same concerns prior to purchase but after a long conversation with Kelly OB#2032, We orders ours with confidence. We have not been disappointed. As it was explained to me, if you aren’t in your service area you don’t have priority so if your trying to us it in a contested area, you may have slow or no service. As we tend to avoid congested areas like the plague, I don’t think that will be an issue.

That's awesome to hear! I'm glad Starlink isn't keeping roaming disabled currently, that was the biggest issue we were worried about and it sounds like it's not an issue anymore. Hopefully it stays that way!

 

[Firemom]

Good point ( I should have read all the information). So - not a problem with rain on the dish.

How about rain in terms of acting as a barrier to the signal? Some of the rain in which we've travelled is very heavy. How about snow?

If subsequent posts answer this I apologise for time-wasting.

As with all satellite uplinks/downlinks there's no simple answer to that question other than "it depends." :D It depends on the severity of the storm, the density/depth of the storm clouds, the position of the satellites in relation to the storm and your dish, etc. Since the dish is able to generate heat to melt snow then snow build-up itself shouldn't be a problem, however some people have had signal blockages in the snow/cold due to...cats. Cats laying on the dish because it's warm. :D

Saw the cats on the dish picture. Way to funny.

 

[Firemom]

Howdy Drax,

Just a heads up. The system works very very well even when you are far far away from your service address. Our service address is in South Dakota and we are currently in central Arizona. We had the same concerns prior to purchase but after a long conversation with Kelly OB#2032, We orders ours with confidence. We have not been disappointed. As it was explained to me, if you aren’t in your service area you don’t have priority so if your trying to us it in a contested area, you may have slow or no service. As we tend to avoid congested areas like the plague, I don’t think that will be an issue.

That's awesome to hear! I'm glad Starlink isn't keeping roaming disabled currently, that was the biggest issue we were worried about and it sounds like it's not an issue anymore. Hopefully it stays that way!

Yes hopefully it does. It sound like Starlink is actively pursuing a mobile system so I’m taking that as a good sign. Our current living room. Don’t always want to be connected. But sure nice to not be forced to pick a lesser camp location when we know we will need to communicate with family/friends/social media.

 

[DRAX]

Has anyone here measured power consumption? I've read that it tends to settle around 110w after an initial 175w or so when powered on and syncing. That would be my next concern, having enough juice to actually work remotely for multiple days. I have a portable 120w solar panel, but I think in order to feel comfortable keeping up with power needs I'd want to be able to net around 220w minimum assuming minimal power draw from the rest of the trailer. I'll probably have upgraded to LiFePO4 by the time we're ready to pull the trigger on Starlink and will probably have added more solar by then as well, I just need to keep this in mind as I'm doing power upgrades and calculations.

 

[Firemom]

Has anyone here measured power consumption? I've read that it tends to settle around 110w after an initial 175w or so when powered on and syncing. That would be my next concern, having enough juice to actually work remotely for multiple days. I have a portable 120w solar panel, but I think in order to feel comfortable keeping up with power needs I'd want to be able to net around 220w minimum assuming minimal power draw from the rest of the trailer. I'll probably have upgraded to LiFePO4 by the time we're ready to pull the trigger on Starlink and will probably have added more solar by then as well, I just need to keep this in mind as I'm doing power upgrades and calculations.

I’ll try and look at actual usage numbers tomorrow but so far it has put very little draw on our system. We have had it plugged into our truck inverter powered by a 100wh lithium. With a 55qt freezer and the Starlink running all day, we went from 97% to 85% with a 100wh panel on top of the truck that did not get perfect sun all day.

 

[K12]

I’ll try and look at actual usage numbers tomorrow but so far it has put very little draw on our system. We have had it plugged into our truck inverter powered by a 100wh lithium. With a 55qt freezer and the Starlink running all day, we went from 97% to 85% with a 100wh panel on top of the truck that did not get perfect sun all day.

That sounds really good for consumption. Have you ran it overnight to see if it will last all the way through? You'll probably test this later, but would the bandwidth used or amount of connected devices effect it?

 

[ProtonDecay]

Looks like @Jim SoG may have been prescient.....this just showed up :



So, now it's $135/mo for the way I envision using it, at least most of the year.