Overlanding with an EV

[rgallant]

@EV-offroad You are right in that many of us want to travel large distances and for some of us that is the norm. You are in Maryland a very very tiny place, last weekend I went for a short overnight trip with my Land Rover group we traveled about 110 miles to the trailhead for our meetup point - and there was a single level 2 charger there. Although there were DC3 chargers about 15 minutes away prior via highway. The trip itself was very short if muddy so ideal for EV SUV other than 1 creek crossing. That was more potential to hit the battery than really difficult.

Now contrast that with my normal day trip, leaving home and traveling up Harrison Lake to Boston bar and home. The offroad bit is about 270 km/ 170 miles km not difficult generally, and there is EV DC2 charger at Boston Bar (finally) . But I only have to worry about gas , my truck gets about 460 to a tank and I can carry spare if I want to poke around the various offshoot roads. The problem with EV's currently is everything is wrapped up in charging station locations and charging times.

 

[EV-offroad]

Yes I agree 100%. This is why I mentioned earlier that EVs may be a phenomenal solution for certain scenarios eg city driving, county/suburbs, highway driving along corridors with frequent fast charger access, and light overlanding treks under 200 miles. There are literally 100's of DC fast charges around here. You can see from the map below that I might need to drive maybe 5 miles to find a charger to top off in just under 20 minutes. In fact, for most applications I can drive around all day without concern and then simply top off at night while sleeping. If I go offroading deep into Harpers Ferry WV then I'm still only about 40 miles away from a fast charge station. With only 20 minute charge time this works for me. I certainly agree that its not just about range but the car's ability to charge fast and access to fast chargers in particular that are the main factors.

But again the deep Treks to Wyoming and Alaska may not be very practical at this time. Indeed, a trip to Boston Bar would require some planning although it does look like there is a fast charger in Hope, BC which is 65 km away (see map). Whether EVs are adopted by enthusiasts like me or forced upon us by deep state government conspiracy groups, things are moving in that direction. It certainly would be nice to see a few more remote solar fast chargers in rural areas or at least a few more fast chargers peppered at the entrance of some National Parks. No rush for me because 95% of my use scenarios are already covered fairly well. While I am very much enjoying the EV, I would never suggest pushing it on folks that have already found a good solution for their needs.

 

[EV-offroad]

A bit optimistic there. There is one thing that is complex in any EV or plug in hybrid for that matter, that is the cooling system. Right now most of them have about 3 separate cooling systems. They have 2 ways and 3 way valves, some electric heating elements, will be hard to diagnose. IT will fail, hoses get brittle, valves get stuck, and so on.. Most have heat pumps, and the cost on those if they fail is of course, astronomical. It is basically a 2 way ac compressor, but because it is called a heat pump.... price goes up. How do I know ? well in the 4xe there is something called coolant heating element, basically a simple resitor like you find in a kettle priced at 600 USD :) . I would guess a heat pump starts at 3 k easy.
So it is not so rosy and maintenance free...

I am an optimist although you are correct that the IONIQ 5 uses a heat pump to keep the batteries in the optimum efficiency range of around 70 degrees. That being said, a lithium ion battery has a fairly wide working tolerance of around -5 to +140 degrees Fahrenheit. The cooling system does not have to work that hard and the system is mostly in place to improve efficiency rather than danger of exploding or ceasing like an ICE could. Had that happen once in a Mitsubishi ICE. Early EVs just used air cooled systems. Nonetheless, the EV electronics would likely force you to stop the car if it got too hot. So from from a cooling perspective there is not a huge practical improvement with using an EV I would agree.

 

[leeloo]

Heat pump is used to heat you in the winter as well, and cool you in the summer, not only the batteries. The biggest EV issue is heat, it works very hard in winter time. On the normal ICE, the AC compressor works in the summer, for EV, the heat pump works non stop. It is a big wear item.

 

[EV-offroad]

Heat pump is used to heat you in the winter as well, and cool you in the summer, not only the batteries. The biggest EV issue is heat, it works very hard in winter time. On the normal ICE, the AC compressor works in the summer, for EV, the heat pump works non stop. It is a big wear item.

I don’t know how much energy the heat pump is actually consuming although I suspect not much in the 50-80 degree ambient temperature since the target is 70. I can say that the interior cabin AC and heat appear to have minimal effect on range. Range does appear to be less in the very cold winter (probably even worse in Alaska). Around the mid Atlantic it is not that noticeable. Yet to be determined the lifespan of the heat pump.

 

[grubworm]

i think electric vehicles definitely have a place in the overlanding world...

 

[EV-offroad]

i think electric vehicles definitely have a place in the overlanding world...

View attachment 257791

Haha the range on that one is not as good as my IONIQ 5 but there is no heat pump so maintenance is low.

 

[Tundracamper]

I don’t know how much energy the heat pump is actually consuming although I suspect not much in the 50-80 degree ambient temperature since the target is 70. I can say that the interior cabin AC and heat appear to have minimal effect on range. Range does appear to be less in the very cold winter (probably even worse in Alaska). Around the mid Atlantic it is not that noticeable. Yet to be determined the lifespan of the heat pump.

I believe car air conditioners can consume as much as 10 hp, which equates to more than 7 kiloWatts, which is not all trivial.

 

[EV-offroad]

I believe car air conditioners can consume as much as 10 hp, which equates to more than 7 kiloWatts, which is not all trivial.

That is true for traditional heating/cooling systems. Heat pumps in EVs are more efficient and average only about 1-2kW depending on ambient temp. Thus there might be a 5-10% loss in range which is why I usually don't notice the difference. Arctic tundra may be a different story.

A closer look at energy consumption in EVs - Charged EVs

When it comes to factors that affect energy consumption in EVs, the big kahunas are weight and wind resistance (aka CdA), but there are other factors that can have a surprisingly outsized effect and that tend to be overlooked, such as the use of climate control (AC, of course, but especially...

chargedevs.com

 

[EV-offroad]

If only Rivian could actually built and deliver actual vehicles and if only the recalls and quality issues would cease. If only Tesla could actually built and deliver the CyberTruck or stop the recalls, lawsuits and improve build quality of the actual cars fit and finish. Yea, if only surely EV’s will save the world and solve all our problems.

BTW, wonder what the resale value of all these EV‘s will be in 5 or 10 years?

In terms of build quality my IONIQ and my neighbors Tesla have been bullet proof after several years and still counting. Indeed it would be nice if the new Rivian and Tesla models came out sooner rather than later. In the meantime, there are a few good options. I don't know about long term resale value. In the short term, some EVs actually increase in value as you drive them off the lot because there is a waiting list. The IONIQ 5 seems plentiful now because they lost the $7500 rebate until the US factory is completed. Anyway I tend to keep cars for a long time so it should pay for much of itself before the battery goes in 10-12 years. Currently saving about $1,500-$2,000 a year in fuel costs. If battery costs $10,000 to replace in 12 years then it would probably still be a gain overall. Will see. I can tell you that I looked long and hard for a 3 year old Tesla and none were available or affordable last year. Maybe that will change in 10 years. I would not mind picking up a used Rivian or Hummer EV in 5 years if affordable.

 

[94Cruiser]

I think this is great!

I am looking forward to the day when gas stations turn into battery stations and you pull in, yank out the empty battery, and drop a freshly charged battery in it's place.. and maybe grab an extra one if you're going out into the boonies...

 

[HighVoltOverland]

Beep Boop Beep

While all the curmudgeon petrolheads are sitting around here telling each other how incapable EVs are, this bot will be going to Overland Expo in the EV Rig that goes overlanding at least twice a month and works as a daily driver.

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[grubworm]

Beep Boop Beep

While all the curmudgeon petrolheads are sitting around here telling each other how incapable EVs are, this bot will be going to Overland Expo in the EV Rig that goes overlanding at least twice a month and works as a daily driver.

01001000 01101001 00100000 01100011 01110101 01110100 01101001 01100101 00101100 00100000 01101110 01101001 01100011 01100101 00100000 01100010 01110101 01110100 01110100 00100001

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[Tundracamper]

While all the curmudgeon petrolheads…

Sign me up!

 

[EV-offroad]

This thread has become quite comical, if not lost the original plot. In the spirit of translating messages in binary code I will also translate my message below using an online jive speak translator for those who may prefer this form of communication.

"Hey people. While I have always enjoyed my gasoline powered vehicles in the past, the electric vehicle platform has been really enjoyable. It has saved me a lot of money. The EV is super fast, very quiet, and according to scientific calculations, does seem to be a better choice for the environment overall. Surely, that is a good thing when we consider the fact that most overlanding drivers enjoy the great outdoors."

"Hey sucka's. What it is, Mama. Right On! While ah' gotss' always enjoyed mah' gasoline powered vehicles in de past, de electric vehicle platfo'm gotss'ta been really enjoyable. What it is, Mama. Right On! It gotss'ta saved me some lot uh bre'd. Slap mah fro. Right On! De EV be supa' fast, real quiet, and acco'din' ta scientific calculashuns, duz seem t'be some betta' choice fo' de environment overall. Sho' nuffly, dat be some baaaad wahtahmellun when we consida' de fact dat most overlandin' rollrs enjoy de great outdoo's."

 

[HighVoltOverland]

Beep Boop Beep

While all the curmudgeon petrolheads are sitting around here telling each other how incapable EVs are, this bot will be going to Overland Expo in the EV Rig that goes overlanding at least twice a month and works as a daily driver.

01001000 01101001 00100000 01100011 01110101 01110100 01101001 01100101 00101100 00100000 01101110 01101001 01100011 01100101 00100000 01100010 01110101 01110100 01110100 00100001

01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101001 01101110 01110011 01100001 01101110 01100101

A grub worm of culture I see ;)

 

[EV-offroad]

I think this is great!

I am looking forward to the day when gas stations turn into battery stations and you pull in, yank out the empty battery, and drop a freshly charged battery in it's place.. and maybe grab an extra one if you're going out into the boonies...

 

[EV-offroad]

Not a bad idea were it not for the fact that the battery on my IONIQ 5 weighs 1,200lbs. I suppose in theory it is possible to quick change a few battery modules but to be honest the car charges so fast it probably would not be worth the trouble. I can wait the 20 minutes needed to charge every 200 miles or so. It really is not that long. I usually need to stretch my legs anyway after a 3 hr drive.

 

[EV-offroad]

Beep Boop Beep

While all the curmudgeon petrolheads are sitting around here telling each other how incapable EVs are, this bot will be going to Overland Expo in the EV Rig that goes overlanding at least twice a month and works as a daily driver.

01001000 01101001 00100000 01100011 01110101 01110100 01101001 01100101 00101100 00100000 01101110 01101001 01100011 01100101 00100000 01100010 01110101 01110100 01110100 00100001

On a serious note. Really hope that rivian starts turning some profit while also starting keep prices down. It is hands down my favorite EV. I hope they have some more options in a few years when I’m ready to buy again.

 

[HighVoltOverland]

On a serious note. Really hope that rivian starts turning some profit while also starting keep prices down. It is hands down my favorite EV. I hope they have some more options in a few years when I’m ready to buy again.

Me too, they've taken the beating that every shorter wished they could have given to tesla
I was able to drive from my house to OverlandExpo (Flagstaff) today and use just the RAN.

I drove from the ocean to the AZ mountains for free.

I think that's pretty neat.

(although free rivian charging is being phased out this year)