Overlanding with an EV

[tjZ06]

Yet another way to think about it... torque is the vector cross-product of the radius and force vectors. Horsepower is simply a mathematical derivation based on torque and RPM (Horsepower = Torque x RPM / 5,252). A transmission transmits HP/TQ to the rest of the drivetrain (whether that means a transfer case/driveshafts/axles or just half-shafts). In order for something to be a transmission, it has to have force acting upon it (and transmit it...). Does the inverter have any force acting upon it? Doe a throttle body?

-TJ

 

[EV-offroad]

Meh, I'm mostly a jerk. ;)

The point I was trying to make; for the sake of the community at large, is that an inverter isn't a transmission. It seems pretty clear that my mistake was a typo, nothing more.

My intent in responding repeatedly to the OP is that it's not all that cool to asspose incorrect information intentionally over and over. EVs (tend to) have transmissions. An inverter is not a transmission. I think we can all agree on these things with a basic understanding of how an EV works.

-TJ

I appreciate you all having a healthy debate about the definition of a transmission and an inverter although I have to admit that this was not the intent of my earlier post.

i was simply responding to an excellent comment about the woes of traditional ICE breaking down and how it is sometimes hard to find parts. My main point was to say that EVs are simpler mechanically - certainly the lack of engine and traditional transmission being one of them.

While I do not in fact consider myself an expert, I can assure you that I do know what the basic definition of a transmission is in that it “transmits” power from the motor to the wheels. So of course the EV has a “transmission” in the strict technical sense. But while I do not claim to be an authority on the matter as TJ suggested, I just personally consider the simplified few gears in most EVs to be a different thing compared to a traditional and more complicated transmission variety.

Although, as I mentioned earlier so does a pencil sharpener have a “transmission” that transmits power from a human hand to rounded blades (fitting even TJs most educated and stringent definition). But are we really talking about the same thing here? Is a pencil sharpener the same thing as a vehicle transmission? Is an Ioniq 5 transmission the same thing as a Land Rover transmission? Which is more likely to be reliable? That was really the point I was trying to convey. I just forgot to insert the word “traditional” in front of transmission in the earlier post. I had not intended to “intentionally” mislead anyone “repeatedly” as TJ suggested and which borders on being a comical assertion.

In my opinion the EV overall design is just more simple mechanically at least. thats it. Perhaps we can just agree to call the EV powertrain a “simplified transmission” and move on?

and by the way I agree with an earlier comment made that it would be nice if future overlanding versions of an EV were not necessarily associated with overly complex electronics and other bells and whistles. In fact, I purchased the most stripped down version of the Ioniq 5 for a reason. In addition to the fact that the SE version has no transmission (err sorry - no traditional complicated torque converter or clutch based transmission) it also has no air ride shocks, no engine circulating water pump, no heads up display, no mechanical sun roof, no automatic lift gate, no rear or passenger motorized seats, and some other bells and whistles. I think this is an advantage. The Ioniq 5 does have automatic door handles and power windows but I can live with that.

 

[Kent R]

Here is a good firsthand look/review the Jeep 4Xe.

Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicons

Nena Barlow has owned a total of nineteen hybrid Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicons. Here's her verdict after years of experience.

www.electrifiedmag.com

 

[EV-offroad]

Here is a good firsthand look/review the Jeep 4Xe.

Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicons

Nena Barlow has owned a total of nineteen hybrid Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicons. Here's her verdict after years of experience.

www.electrifiedmag.com

Thanks for sharing. I have always loved the idea of a Jeep but never actually owned one. The closest I ever came was driving my brother's old late 70's CJ around the backwoods of PA. I think it had an inline 6 cylinder engine. Obviously manual. Fully connected. Simple. Loved it.

I just can't yet get on board with the jeep 4xe yet for personal reasons. I understand why jeep did it. If you really want to get lost in the wild then it helps to have ICE engine backup power. I just personally like the idea of the simplicity of an EV with just a motor and battery. Range of course is the main downside on an EV. As discussed a lot previously in this post, you might get 150-200 miles in an EV but probably twice that or more for an ICE. While EV owners can carry a few solar panels for emergencies, its a lot lot faster to just top off an ICE with a spare 5 gallon tank of gas. Nonetheless, I remain intrigued by the notion of remote off grid EV charging stations and solid state technology. Heck, I even considered what a $600 portable backup generator from Harbor Freight and a 5 gallon tank of gas could do for an EV in a bind. 5 gallons of fuel would get you about 15 hours of generator use and charge the EV enough to get another 100 miles or so. But that would only be for emergencies since regular use of a gas guzzling portable generator would defeat the whole purpose of a "green" technology EV in the first place.

For now, I am happy to meander around in the Ioniq 5 with a modest lift kit and AT tires while consuming only renewable low cost energy. I will just be limited to 100 mile forest road excursions. When Jeep eventually designs a fully electric wrangler (maybe with a solid state battery and 500 mile range) coupled with an expansion of their remote charging network then I'm in. If my body lasts that long that is.

 

[MidOH]

Also not actually true. All modern EVs run AC motors. All modern EVs have DC battery packs. The inverter is there to... invert AC to DC. Generally the "speed control" is also handled by the "inverter" so it's more than just an inverter. But it I completely agree: it's not a transmission at all, in any way. And I still contend (as backed by actual data) all modern EVs have a transmission, as the word itself is defined.

My issue with @EV-offroad was they stated "EVs don't have transmissions" as a fact, when that is certainly untrue. Again, I don't think that (in general) EV transmissions are as complicated as ICE transmissions, nor do they require as much maintenance. I just think if someone is going to come onto a forum and preach the gospel of EV, they should at least understand the technology.

The fact that they thought I was referring to the inverter when I said "all modern EVs have transmissions" shows they doesn't understand the technology at all. Assuming we grant him that the inverter generally also encompasses the speed controller, that'd be like stating "the throttle body in a gasoline ICE (or injection pump/injector controller in a diesel ICE) is a transmission."

I'm not trying to 'hate' (as the kids would say) on the guy (or gal) or EVs in general. I just take issue with someone trying to preach at a group that might also not understand the technology when they clearly don't have a basic understanding of it themselves.

-TJ

EDIT: as to not make it look like I'm "covering my tracks" I will make my correction here. I obviously slipped-up when I posted about the directionality of the inverter. My bad. As I stated, in modern EVs the motor(s) are AC and the battery pack is DC. As such, the inverter inverts DC to AC, not the other way around as I mistakenly posted.

My toy cars have 3 phase AC motors and DC battery packs.

It's just a speed control. Every damn EE is going to come up with a new name for it. That's just how they are.

It doesn't actually have to covert to full AC. You can fire each phase, in order, with DC. If you want to.

 

[MidOH]

I liked the Jeep 4xe. But:
-too heavy. Do we need a starter still? Use the electric drive. It weighs nearly as much as a Ford Superduty.
-needs an Al body. I ain't paying $85k for something that rusts quick, or sits in my garage all winter.
-needs an interior redesign. Not all Jeep customers are blue haired fat girls.
-painted fenders, yuk.
-better wheels, tires, gear, options.