Enthusiast II
Enthusiast II
In 2026 Toyota and/or their rivals will likely offer solid state battery with 500 mile range for about $60,000. This is obviously not practical for most people but, as did traditional lithium ion technology, prices will fall rapidly. If you hang in there long enough you might just be able drive 800 miles into Alaska and recharge off a wind turbine supplied DC fast charger.The numbers are quite accurate. Even with an 18 wheeler- empty around 12-13 mpg. Add a trailer and a load, 6 mpg. If and when an EV fully loaded traveling in cold weather, (not the namby pamby cold here in the east) attains a 400 mile range, that would get even the most pessimistic person, to pay attention. Currently and into the near future EVs are a great choice for suburbanites. Long distance back country touring? Not for quite sometime. I’ll be dead & gone.
Yeah thats a big hit. Like we talked about earlier, EVs are at about a max of 150 mile range right now for the deep tundra in the cold. Thats still better than the 50 mile range we had in 2008. We will get there.TFL just tested a model 3 for range in 2 degree temps, the battery lost half its range from cold, about 55% loss of range, crazy
Pathfinder I
Lol. Sounds like fantasy/propaganda to me. We literally have EV battery plants that cannot operate without coal-fired power plants. The enormous amount of negative impact on the environment by way of mining and increased power consumption to create these "green" vehicles is ridiculous.If you hang in there long enough you might just be able drive 800 miles into Alaska and recharge off a wind turbine supplied DC fast charger.
A 15-pound lithium-ion battery holds about the same amount of energy as a pound of oil. To produce that battery requires 7,000 pounds of rock and dirt to obtain the minerals that are needed for its manufacture. The average EV battery weighs around 1,000 pounds. The mining and factory processing needed to produce an electric vehicle results in a lot more carbon dioxide emissions than a gas-powered car, so electric vehicles have to be driven around 50,000 to 60,000 miles before there is a net reduction in carbon dioxide emissions. The federal government requires batteries to be warranted for at least 8 years or 100,000 miles. After that, if the batteries need replacing, more energy demand would be required. As more factories are built in the United States to supply EV manufacturers, there will be higher demands on the grid for power.
The math required to calculate how much green house energy goes in vs how much goes out is staggering and dependent on many factors. To make it even more complicated, politics and “propaganda” do get in the way not to mention old habits. Some people just can’t give up their love of ICE vehicles and others welcome newer technologies.Lol. Sounds like fantasy/propaganda to me. We literally have EV battery plants that cannot operate without coal-fired power plants. The enormous amount of negative impact on the environment by way of mining and increased power consumption to create these "green" vehicles is ridiculous.
EV Battery Factory in Kansas to be Powered by Coal, At Least Temporarily
A new electric vehicle battery factory in Kansas needs so much energy that the state is delaying the retirement of…www.instituteforenergyresearch.org
That makes sense. An EV is not for everyone and folks that like to get lost deep in remote areas of the world would find it a challenge with most EVs right now. Solid state batteries and fuel cells will one day get us as much and likely even surpass the range of ICE vehicles but for now we are not there in terms of range yet, agreed.Just means there won’t be any EV folks around either:). I don’t ever expect the range of EV’s to get high enough to interest me. While I certainly enjoy the journey, taking twice as long to get there while charging doesn’t. It’s not about saving money to me.
I of course agree with you and one of the reasons I started the thread. Overlanding, within an hour away from civilization is easy as pie with an EV and I have done it many times. I admit that there are limits of course. For the naysayers, let's take a plausible worst case scenario. The AWD IONIQ 5 gets about 250 mile range. Cut that to 220 on the highway. Call it 175 miles towing 2500 pound teardrop. If the place you are going has no electricity then you are limited to 80 miles each way. Of course there are other factors like the wheels and tire set up, elevation changes and outside air temperature. But as I mentioned before, planning an excursion and factoring in remote charge stations is half the fun. You cant be a pioneer without doing pioneering things right? Anyway, a more typical scenario is that the place you are headed has some sort of electricity available that you could charge overnight.I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't think you need to drive hundreds of miles through desolate territory just to go overloading.
Here, in Northern Arizona, I can drive just 30 minutes in pretty much any direction, and be far enough out that I don't see anyone else all weekend;
far enough to enjoy some trail riding; and far enough to have a good time camping with my buddies.
Pretty much any modern EV could easily handle that kind of range.
I've owned an EV and loved it. Only sold it because my wife and I became full-time RVers and I needed something that I could flat tow behind our motorhome.
If Toyota came out with an all-electric 4Runner (or new FJ) I'd be all over it.
Advocate I
You are correct sir. It does appear as if DC fast chargers are few and far out in Nemaiah Valley or Skookumchuck. Maybe you could convince someone to put up a few Paired Power or BoxPower remote solar charging stations?And the range is the issue at least here in BC, where charging stations are still pretty rare outside major highways. You can definitely car camp to major campgrounds but there are not many of those in comparison to no service campsites. So the big one here close to Vancouver is Manning park, there are exactly 5 charging stations. The next nearest is 45 miles away so your Ioniq 5 is pretty much perfect, although Manning is large most of it is very short range. You can get to Jasper and Banff with no issues too, given the highways to both of those are man routes to Alberta no surprises there. It starts getting pretty dodgy outside that though.
Advocate I
There's a whole lotta speculation and guess work, or perhaps dreaming, going on there...In 2026 Toyota and/or their rivals will likely offer solid state battery with 500 mile range for about $60,000. This is obviously not practical for most people but, as did traditional lithium ion technology, prices will fall rapidly. If you hang in there long enough you might just be able drive 800 miles into Alaska and recharge off a wind turbine supplied DC fast charger.
Advocate I
I have several friends with Rivians, including one that has the S and the T who tows pretty regularly with them. What he tows is nowhere near 11k lbs (~2800lbs sand rail on an open trailer... figure ~5-6k lbs total) and his range is drastically reduced, half or worse. I'm not an EV or Rivian hater. I actually rather like them, and my DD is a PHEV that I tend to drive in pure-EV mode. I just think we're a long way from practical EV offroading and Overlanding. I'm glad there are people trying it, and pioneering the space... I just don't want to be one of them.The Rivian R1T has a range of over 350 miles. It will also tow 11,000 pounds but costs nearly twice as much as the Ioniq 5.
A Car and Driver article with the word "plans" pretty clearly in the URL. To me that doesn't speak to a finalized product that will be coming to market in the next year or two.Solid state is indeed coming soon..
Don't discount the number of modules and amount of wiring in an EV. Not even factoring for off pavement, regular main highways in other countries can be worse than the slow going dirt tracks. I know of more rigs breaking on the highway than off pavement during our travels. The constant vibration and pounding is what does things in. We have friends that were in a seven figure rig, it was remarkably crafted by a professional company, they started with air-ride. After a few months off pavement in Canada and Alaska they had the air-ride system disconnected. What they learned was their comfort to push harder was systematically destroying their habitation and had broken several components on their chassis. We expected to see them again further south but they turned around in Mexico and sold their rig. Another friend we met in Mexico, who was also heading south, made it as far as Guatemala then turned around. He worked support for the Dakar, as a paid employee, and had already overlanded most of Africa but the regular road conditions were so bad he couldn't willingly destroy his Iveco...as he put it. There was no reprieve, every now and then there would be a newly paved road but one could not count on it. Nothing, including the iconic Land Cruiser, can take the abuse without issues. The common failures I mentioned above were due to the road conditions and not the manufacturing of the items themselves (well, not intentional deficient manufacturing). I know of Go Power banks that have been fine for almost a decade here in the states but I didn't come across one that made it all the way south. Ewan McGreggor said it best "bad roads are worse than off-road."Some very valuable points from a clearly experienced overlander. With your well stated comments above I add the following considerations to the conversation.
one of things that attracted me personally to an EV was in fact it’s simplicity. The EV is essentially a battery and motor. That’s it. There are no mechanical water pumps, engines, transmissions etc. all the complicated electronics like the entertainment systems and cruise control are the same they put in every other new vehicle including ICEs. And I agree less is more here. I have driven for 3 years in an EV without a single issue. No service visits, no oil change, no new brakes needed. Nothing. After beating the car up a little off road I ince noticed the passenger seat bolt came slightly loose and started to rattle. I tightened it as I would in an ICE. I suppose the AC unit could die or need service some day but it is a heat pump system with few moving parts so not too worried.
Apart from needing to change the battery out every ten years Tesla expects that most of their chassis will last 500k to 1 million miles. And why wouldn’t they. EVs are essentially skateboards with a motor. Very simple fundamentally.
I suppose as we get further and further away from fossil fuels the question of how rugged an EV is will become more clear. However, at least from my own experience what concerns me most about your tale is not whether or not my EV would break down, it’s whether or not I could find a remote charging station out there. Your point about what makes overlanding true overlanding based in miles driven is a valid one.
This is the main reason I'm excited to see what the future brings in EVs built for off-road use.One of the things that attracted me personally to an EV was its simplicity. The EV is essentially a battery and motor. That’s it. There are no mechanical water pumps, engines, transmissions, etc. All the complicated electronics like the entertainment systems and cruise control are the same that are put in every other new vehicle including ICEs. And I agree less is more here. I have driven for 3 years in an EV without a single issue. No service visits, no oil change, no new brakes needed. Nothing.
Advocate I
ORLY? Every current EV I can think of has a transmission, or transmissions of some sort. Rivians actually have two transmissions...one of things that attracted me personally to an EV was in fact it’s simplicity... transmissions etc.
Pretty sure he meant a transmission in the traditional sense, i.e., multiple gears, shifting, etc.ORLY? Every current EV I can think of has a transmission or transmissions of some sort. Rivians actually have two transmissions...
-TJ