Enthusiast II
Overlanding with an EV
- Thread starter EV-offroad
- Start date
In 2026 Toyota and/or their rivals will likely offer solid state battery with 500 mile range for about $60,000. This is obviously not practical for most people but, as did traditional lithium ion technology, prices will fall rapidly. If you hang in there long enough you might just be able drive 800 miles into Alaska and recharge off a wind turbine supplied DC fast charger.
Yeah thats a big hit. Like we talked about earlier, EVs are at about a max of 150 mile range right now for the deep tundra in the cold. Thats still better than the 50 mile range we had in 2008. We will get there.
Pathfinder I
Lol. Sounds like fantasy/propaganda to me. We literally have EV battery plants that cannot operate without coal-fired power plants. The enormous amount of negative impact on the environment by way of mining and increased power consumption to create these "green" vehicles is ridiculous.
EV Battery Factory in Kansas to be Powered by Coal, At Least Temporarily
A new electric vehicle battery factory in Kansas needs so much energy that the state is delaying the retirement of…
www.instituteforenergyresearch.org
The math required to calculate how much green house energy goes in vs how much goes out is staggering and dependent on many factors. To make it even more complicated, politics and “propaganda” do get in the way not to mention old habits. Some people just can’t give up their love of ICE vehicles and others welcome newer technologies.Lol. Sounds like fantasy/propaganda to me. We literally have EV battery plants that cannot operate without coal-fired power plants. The enormous amount of negative impact on the environment by way of mining and increased power consumption to create these "green" vehicles is ridiculous.
EV Battery Factory in Kansas to be Powered by Coal, At Least Temporarily
A new electric vehicle battery factory in Kansas needs so much energy that the state is delaying the retirement of…
The EPA and automakers do their best to calculate the efficiency of EVs when taking into consideration manufacturing, energy generation, localities and everything in between. This is why an EV that does not itself burn fossil fuels gets labeled with an EPA fuel efficiency rating of for example 100mpg. This is of course an average and depends on driver habits, highways speed, mining efficiency, and where the energy comes from to charge the EV. A coal powered plant, as you mention would produce more fossil fuel emissions for both manufacturing and charging compared to places that use wind or solar energy or hydroelectric. But even accounting for the very dirty coal plants that still exist, EVs produce less carbon emissions from mining to manufacturing to charging to battery replacement 10 years down the line. It’s just math. Hard math, but just math.
That makes sense. An EV is not for everyone and folks that like to get lost deep in remote areas of the world would find it a challenge with most EVs right now. Solid state batteries and fuel cells will one day get us as much and likely even surpass the range of ICE vehicles but for now we are not there in terms of range yet, agreed.
For me though the challenges associated with taking an EV on more remote road trips is half the fun. Sure the EV saves some money day to day driving around the city but the couple thousand dollars I save each year is not the primary reason I bought one. I like the fact that the EV production and use produce less green house gases overall and is a simpler technology with few moving parts.
What appeals to me about overlanding is the notion of one day going really deep into remote regions and being off the grid. During a zombie apocalypse I will run to the mountains by a lake with a pack of solar panels and the EV. The EV won’t break down as much. No engine to repair or oil to change. No transmission. Never need to find a gas station. Think Mad Max but with free energy from the sun.
there are trade offs either way as I see it. Both ICE and EV have pros and cons at the moment.
I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't think you need to drive hundreds of miles through desolate territory just to go overloading.
Here, in Northern Arizona, I can drive just 30 minutes in pretty much any direction, and be far enough out that I don't see anyone else all weekend;
far enough to enjoy some trail riding; and far enough to have a good time camping with my buddies.
Pretty much any modern EV could easily handle that kind of range.
I've owned an EV and loved it. Only sold it because my wife and I became full-time RVers and I needed something that I could flat tow behind our motorhome.
If Toyota came out with an all-electric 4Runner (or new FJ) I'd be all over it.
Here, in Northern Arizona, I can drive just 30 minutes in pretty much any direction, and be far enough out that I don't see anyone else all weekend;
far enough to enjoy some trail riding; and far enough to have a good time camping with my buddies.
Pretty much any modern EV could easily handle that kind of range.
I've owned an EV and loved it. Only sold it because my wife and I became full-time RVers and I needed something that I could flat tow behind our motorhome.
If Toyota came out with an all-electric 4Runner (or new FJ) I'd be all over it.
I of course agree with you and one of the reasons I started the thread. Overlanding, within an hour away from civilization is easy as pie with an EV and I have done it many times. I admit that there are limits of course. For the naysayers, let's take a plausible worst case scenario. The AWD IONIQ 5 gets about 250 mile range. Cut that to 220 on the highway. Call it 175 miles towing 2500 pound teardrop. If the place you are going has no electricity then you are limited to 80 miles each way. Of course there are other factors like the wheels and tire set up, elevation changes and outside air temperature. But as I mentioned before, planning an excursion and factoring in remote charge stations is half the fun. You cant be a pioneer without doing pioneering things right? Anyway, a more typical scenario is that the place you are headed has some sort of electricity available that you could charge overnight.
The Rivian R1T has a range of over 350 miles. It will also tow 11,000 pounds but costs nearly twice as much as the Ioniq 5.
FYI
rgallant
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Advocate I
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And the range is the issue at least here in BC, where charging stations are still pretty rare outside major highways. You can definitely car camp to major campgrounds but there are not many of those in comparison to no service campsites. So the big one here close to Vancouver is Manning park, there are exactly 5 charging stations. The next nearest is 45 miles away so your Ioniq 5 is pretty much perfect, although Manning is large most of it is very short range. You can get to Jasper and Banff with no issues too, given the highways to both of those are man routes to Alberta no surprises there. It starts getting pretty dodgy outside that though.
You are correct sir. It does appear as if DC fast chargers are few and far out in Nemaiah Valley or Skookumchuck. Maybe you could convince someone to put up a few Paired Power or BoxPower remote solar charging stations?
Ultimately, as in all things "Overlanding", it comes down to one's definition. After 7 years driving 100K miles through 17 countries... less is more. There is a reason that the old school fully mechanical vehicles are highly sought after. Most full-time overlanders even gripe about having electric door locks and/or windows. Experience has taught everyone that the longer you go the more nagging electrical issues you will have. Many on the road even joke about it. End of year one is much easier than the end of year two...after four years there are so many little annoyances that dry docking is essential. Mitigating those types of issues up front, i.e. getting the most mechanical vehicle possible first, makes for a much more enjoyable trip. The daily constant variables are more than enough to overwhelm most, why the young YouTubers either give up or just stick to pavement (like the useless lightening fast high production "Overlanders"), no need to over complicate it from the start. While I do not care what one views as overlanding, I personally do not refer to a weekend or multi-week camping trip as such, no matter how many miles off-road it entails.
I have a huge list of the failures we saw along our way, the most common being water system pumps, all-in-one battery solutions (Go Power etc.), cheaper fridges (sub $1000), all-in-one converters/inverters/power management systems, stick down solar panels, on-board air compressors, plumbing, and every vehicle sensor imaginable. Chasing electrical gremlins is the worst experience on the road. I also happened upon a lot of diesel heater and cooktop issues, mostly due to not performing the recommended maintenance or not understanding high altitude. I'm sure an inductive cooktop made it but many switched to a cheap propane or butane stove after having too many battery or stove operation issues (not mentioning most didn't even consider what cooking inside the rig in C.A. would be like). Ironically the bare bones slammed together surf rigs faired fairly well since nothing was engineered as everything was just tossed in and off they went. High end rigs ended up carrying 5 gallon refillable water jugs because filling one's tank with potable water isn't as easy as just locating a tap...sometimes the water is salty which destroys most on-board purification systems (came across of a few that learned that the hard way).
All that to say, why in the world would I take the pinnacle of over-engineering when my experience tells me otherwise. There are already more than enough complications, problems, and decisions to fill one's day. It comes down to whether I can or whether I should, reason makes the answer simple.
I have a huge list of the failures we saw along our way, the most common being water system pumps, all-in-one battery solutions (Go Power etc.), cheaper fridges (sub $1000), all-in-one converters/inverters/power management systems, stick down solar panels, on-board air compressors, plumbing, and every vehicle sensor imaginable. Chasing electrical gremlins is the worst experience on the road. I also happened upon a lot of diesel heater and cooktop issues, mostly due to not performing the recommended maintenance or not understanding high altitude. I'm sure an inductive cooktop made it but many switched to a cheap propane or butane stove after having too many battery or stove operation issues (not mentioning most didn't even consider what cooking inside the rig in C.A. would be like). Ironically the bare bones slammed together surf rigs faired fairly well since nothing was engineered as everything was just tossed in and off they went. High end rigs ended up carrying 5 gallon refillable water jugs because filling one's tank with potable water isn't as easy as just locating a tap...sometimes the water is salty which destroys most on-board purification systems (came across of a few that learned that the hard way).
All that to say, why in the world would I take the pinnacle of over-engineering when my experience tells me otherwise. There are already more than enough complications, problems, and decisions to fill one's day. It comes down to whether I can or whether I should, reason makes the answer simple.
Some very valuable points from a clearly experienced overlander. With your well stated comments above I add the following considerations to the conversation.
one of things that attracted me personally to an EV was in fact it’s simplicity. The EV is essentially a battery and motor. That’s it. There are no mechanical water pumps, engines, transmissions etc. all the complicated electronics like the entertainment systems and cruise control are the same they put in every other new vehicle including ICEs. And I agree less is more here. I have driven for 3 years in an EV without a single issue. No service visits, no oil change, no new brakes needed. Nothing. After beating the car up a little off road I ince noticed the passenger seat bolt came slightly loose and started to rattle. I tightened it as I would in an ICE. I suppose the AC unit could die or need service some day but it is a heat pump system with few moving parts so not too worried.
Apart from needing to change the battery out every ten years Tesla expects that most of their chassis will last 500k to 1 million miles. And why wouldn’t they. EVs are essentially skateboards with a motor. Very simple fundamentally.
I suppose as we get further and further away from fossil fuels the question of how rugged an EV is will become more clear. However, at least from my own experience what concerns me most about your tale is not whether or not my EV would break down, it’s whether or not I could find a remote charging station out there. Your point about what makes overlanding true overlanding based in miles driven is a valid one.
one of things that attracted me personally to an EV was in fact it’s simplicity. The EV is essentially a battery and motor. That’s it. There are no mechanical water pumps, engines, transmissions etc. all the complicated electronics like the entertainment systems and cruise control are the same they put in every other new vehicle including ICEs. And I agree less is more here. I have driven for 3 years in an EV without a single issue. No service visits, no oil change, no new brakes needed. Nothing. After beating the car up a little off road I ince noticed the passenger seat bolt came slightly loose and started to rattle. I tightened it as I would in an ICE. I suppose the AC unit could die or need service some day but it is a heat pump system with few moving parts so not too worried.
Apart from needing to change the battery out every ten years Tesla expects that most of their chassis will last 500k to 1 million miles. And why wouldn’t they. EVs are essentially skateboards with a motor. Very simple fundamentally.
I suppose as we get further and further away from fossil fuels the question of how rugged an EV is will become more clear. However, at least from my own experience what concerns me most about your tale is not whether or not my EV would break down, it’s whether or not I could find a remote charging station out there. Your point about what makes overlanding true overlanding based in miles driven is a valid one.
Advocate I
There's a whole lotta speculation and guess work, or perhaps dreaming, going on there...
-TJ
Solid state is indeed coming soon..
Advocate I
I have several friends with Rivians, including one that has the S and the T who tows pretty regularly with them. What he tows is nowhere near 11k lbs (~2800lbs sand rail on an open trailer... figure ~5-6k lbs total) and his range is drastically reduced, half or worse. I'm not an EV or Rivian hater. I actually rather like them, and my DD is a PHEV that I tend to drive in pure-EV mode. I just think we're a long way from practical EV offroading and Overlanding. I'm glad there are people trying it, and pioneering the space... I just don't want to be one of them.
A Car and Driver article with the word "plans" pretty clearly in the URL. To me that doesn't speak to a finalized product that will be coming to market in the next year or two.
-TJ
Don't discount the number of modules and amount of wiring in an EV. Not even factoring for off pavement, regular main highways in other countries can be worse than the slow going dirt tracks. I know of more rigs breaking on the highway than off pavement during our travels. The constant vibration and pounding is what does things in. We have friends that were in a seven figure rig, it was remarkably crafted by a professional company, they started with air-ride. After a few months off pavement in Canada and Alaska they had the air-ride system disconnected. What they learned was their comfort to push harder was systematically destroying their habitation and had broken several components on their chassis. We expected to see them again further south but they turned around in Mexico and sold their rig. Another friend we met in Mexico, who was also heading south, made it as far as Guatemala then turned around. He worked support for the Dakar, as a paid employee, and had already overlanded most of Africa but the regular road conditions were so bad he couldn't willingly destroy his Iveco...as he put it. There was no reprieve, every now and then there would be a newly paved road but one could not count on it. Nothing, including the iconic Land Cruiser, can take the abuse without issues. The common failures I mentioned above were due to the road conditions and not the manufacturing of the items themselves (well, not intentional deficient manufacturing). I know of Go Power banks that have been fine for almost a decade here in the states but I didn't come across one that made it all the way south. Ewan McGreggor said it best "bad roads are worse than off-road."
As for repairs, mechanical is superior as many countries still have machine shops everywhere. Alternators, power steering pumps, starters, etc. can all be rebuilt. Coming from a disposable, just throw parts at it society, doesn't work in the majority of the world. Even then, the quality of the available parts is mostly Chinese knock offs so having things rebuilt is preferable. Everyone we know had to import a part except for those that took a tip top rig and spent just at or under two years overlanding (fixed things when they shipped back home). I could go on and on but modern vehicles are great for the conditions they were engineered for but horrible under the slightest change in conditions. Even the Mercedes Sprinter, the go to for most van lifers, is hated by many who attempt to overland in them. It's a pavement princess that can get you down a dusty road or two but eventually, if pushed, it will never be able to be properly aligned. We have friends that travelled in a van like ours, switched to a Sprinter, and switched back after one year. They joke that they "must be more redneck than they think" but it was the lack of capability that had them returning to straight axles and a solid frame. I know of an EV that has driven the Pan-Am, the actual proper highway. I think, how sad as the best parts of every country are way off the truck routes.
The largest thing I didn't even mention was electricity. We couldn't plug in and we purposely built our rig that way. We know of people that had their electrical systems fried from electricity spikes. Also, the cost in many places is astronomical based on local income. It was very common to have an additional $5 or more per day fee to run an A/C. Sounds like peanuts but for many places that doubled the cost. We'd pay $5 and friends that wanted to run their A/C had to pay $10. Many times the electricity would go out but they still had to pay since they did use their A/C when it was up. The remote places, there isn't even running water or cell coverage. If the local grid could take the energy demand it could get pricey but maybe it would even out with fuel in the end or just stick to the major routes and cities...in that case we'd just prefer to not go.
This is the main reason I'm excited to see what the future brings in EVs built for off-road use.
As far as I'm concerned there are no drawbacks to them. Not for me.
Considering all the problems I've had and thousands upon thousands of dollars I've spent on repairs for the dozen or so ICE vehicles I've owned for the past 40 years, I'll take my (minimal) chances on another EV. When I bought my first EV I wasn't a tree hugger or an EV fanatic. It was right after C0vid started and gas prices skyrocketed. Electric for an EV was 1/4 the cost (based on mileage) so it was a no-brainer.
I needed a reliable car (that I can fit in at 6'6'') and that isn't a Focus, a Sentra, a Prius, or any of the typical econoboxes you normal people can drive.
So I picked the Chevy Bolt EV. It was FAR less expensive to maintain than any car or truck I'd ever owned and electricity to fuel it was much much cheaper than the fuel I would have paid for if it had been an ice vehicle. For the few years I owned it, I never had to do anything but replace the wiper blades and cabin air filter. I had the brakes checked a couple of times just to make sure they were okay since I never used them due to my expert ability to use regen. It also only cost me $20k to buy it because it was used. I sold it for $19k nearly 3 years later too. I see the same vehicle going for the same price today, 3 years later. (I bought mine 3 years old with 30k mi) When the battery recall came out, Chevy could not have treated me better... They paid for a rental for the entire week the dealership had my Bolt to replace the battery. Then they gave me a new 8-year/100k mile warranty... on a 5-year-old car. Haha. EV anxiety? Nope. So I'll be getting another one soon. I have zero range anxiety or fear of "what might happen". I don't live that way. I've never even used a charger other than the Level 1 charger at home so I couldn't care less about charging infrastructure. I just plugged it in every day when I got home and used it as my daily driver. Once a month I'd go to the VA which was about an hour away. It did that with no problem, with the A/C blasting, the radio thumping, and with my heavy right foot mashed down. All in all, my experience has proven that EVs are the best way to go, for me, as far as a super reliable daily driver goes.
I'm curious to see what the future holds for an EV that is a capable off-roader but that can still be had for under $50k.
I heard about the e-Wrangler but I have zero interest in anything made by Jeep. They're the least reliable brand I've owned. Toyota has been the most.
So a 4Runner EV or better yet, an FJ EV would be ideal.
Advocate I
ORLY? Every current EV I can think of has a transmission, or transmissions of some sort. Rivians actually have two transmissions...
-TJ
Pretty sure he meant a transmission in the traditional sense, i.e., multiple gears, shifting, etc.
Most EVs do not have multi-speed transmissions.
Instead, they use a single-speed transmission to manage the electric motor.
