Overlanding with an EV

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Doesn't matter what forum, these threads all follow the same basic pattern

Botman with new account and transparent username posts feel good propaganda .
People living in reality post reasonable and actual objections to the technology and point out critical flaws.
Botman starts each reply the same, then posts a bunch of hopes and dreams and projects technological changes that are unattainable using known technology and dismisses contrary points of view as "conspiracies"
More people living in reality stop by and voice concerns.
Botman regurgitates more of the same, injects HUMAN LIKE CHARACTERISTICS INTO THE REPLIES.
Somebody who bought "safe and effective" stops by to declare anyone rejecting the propaganda a "cultist" and gives Botman a hug
No ones opinion changes, no lessons are learned
Wait what?
OP shared a YouTube video and personal experience
Why is the assumption it’s a bot?
Am I a bot because I didn’t take time to say platitudes like “EVs are dangerous” or “I do a million mile road trips into the tundra so I could never rely on a charging infrastructure because I’m such a true overlander”

Damn.

Beep boop beep
 

EV-offroad

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Wait what?
OP shared a YouTube video and personal experience
Why is the assumption it’s a bot?
Am I a bot because I didn’t take time to say platitudes like “EVs are dangerous” or “I do a million mile road trips into the tundra so I could never rely on a charging infrastructure because I’m such a true overlander”

Damn.

Beep boop beep
Correct. Not a bot. My friends call me JT. While I do think there are some serious conspiracies and misinformation about EVs (likely fueled by fossil fuel company’s, Russia and Saudi bots, and by folks who naturally resist change) there are some excellent points made on the ICE fan side. I have loved my ICE machines for many years. My first car was a 1967 Camaro that I built from scratch including engine rebuild and body work. Loved that thing. It got 13 mpg at best and probably 8mpg the way I drove as a teen. I bought an EV because it just makes sense for me and my family. Yes there was a $7500 incentive but that’s understandable when moving from one technology to another. Would have bought one anyway. The EV is fast, quiet, and gets the equivalent of 100mpg fossil fuel consumption. It never needs an oil change and has a low chance of breaking down. In the city an EV is a no brainer. In the counties makes sense too. But as I mentioned early in the thread, EVs are not there yet for rural treks in Wyoming or Alaska. I think we all agree on that.

Thus I stepped into the lions den of EV haters, not because these folks here are unreasonable but because there is a passion for overlanding (a passion I share) and EVs are not there yet for deep overland adventures. Thus the vitriol..

Anyway, I started the post not to defend EVs. That is more of a political and spiritual debate rather than a technology debate IMO. I started the thread on the off chance that there were some open minded EV respecters interested in upgrading their vehicle to handle light off-road, gravel, and regional camping experiences. Surely that does not offend. I don’t think anyone is out to steal your ICE from your cold dead hands! We are all just outdoor overland enthusiasts looking for a path.

I am enjoying the thread but not sure I can stay on top of the responses during such a heated debate. Thus, may I politely request that the thread gravitate away from EV vs ICE and move back towards ways of upgrading an existing EV to overlanding capacity for those who are interested. Signed - JT from Baltimore not a bot just a human
 
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smritte

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LITHIUM AND OTHER MINERALS ARE NOT AS SCARCE AS SOME MAY THINK
I'm not going to go into the logistics involved here. People need to stop thinking small, look at world market and not just cars. Now the supply as well as the mining for just lithium, not the other minerals just became more difficult.

BUT STILL MUCH MORE CARBON FRIENDLY THAN GAS, OIL OR COAL
Not true at all. Almost all of the information published is completely outdated. Look at the emissions on a modern 4L engine, compare it to to the same displacement from the 90's and the 80's. Now compare to published data. You will notice the published emissions don't match modern vehicles. That's just cars. Now look towards the carbon foot print around the power generation, manufacturing of batteries and mining of the materials. Compile that data and compare it to the same with a petrol vehicle.

COMBINE WITH NATURAL GAS TO SPIN A GAS TURBINE.
Petroleum based again = more emissions.

INTERESTING POINT I HAVE NOT THOUGHT ABOUT. THIS MAY COME BACK TO THE SAME COMMENT ABOUT BATTERY WEIGHT VS RANGE VS ACCESS TO DC FAST CHARGERS.
Don't look at it from a distance point of view. Change to a driving off road point of view. You want your off road vehicle as light as possible. "Floating" the vehicle over soft ground becomes more difficult the heavier you get. You need to offset this with taller/wider tires. Now that we changed tire size, the software is no longer calibrated to the vehicle, loosing efficiency.

Most of the public information is based on propaganda and outdated technology. If that's true, why am I so sure about what I say? Because I teach Hybrid/EV for three manufactures. I'm required to stay on top of current technology as well as older technology. I can also teach vehicle emission classes even though I chose not to.

When you step back, take everything into consideration regarding EV vs Petrol. This is from start to finish, building parts, assemble and drive, you find Petrol has a much smaller carbon foot print and pound for pound contains way more energy then battery.

I'm not against electric anything. The technology needs to evolve and it may not do that properly now that its being used as a political stage. Politics is what caused battery technology to flatline in the late 90's. If it wasn't for Musk, we would still be there.
 
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smritte

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hus I stepped into the lions den of EV haters, not because these folks here are unreasonable but because there is a passion for overlanding (a passion I share) and EVs are not there yet for deep overland adventures. Thus the vitriol..
Anyway, I started the post not to defend EVs
BTW.
Thank you for the original post and your polite responses. Its always fun to debate things like this as long as no one gets mean.
 

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The problem with EV's for overland is simply range, there is no overcoming that. There will not be charging stations in the middle of the wilderness, there is literally never going to be enough use to justify it.

Real-world example my land rover groups did about 700 miles in southern BC, with no cell service for most of it, and only 1 gas station. We did about another 300 with very limited charging station access, getting to and from the offroad bit.

Everyone carried spare gas/diesel at least 10 gallons, and even then some of the V8's were down to under a 1/4 tank when we hit the gas stop and there was no charging station.

For day camping and short runs they would actually work out, this last weekend we did a short run and EV would have been fine.
 

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Not a bot. My friends call me JT.
now THATS exactly what i'd expect a bot to say...

ha. well, here's an interesting article about electric vehicles. electric vehicles were invented and used a good bit before gas vehicles and apparently suffered the same issues we are seeing now, over 100 years later.
im not sure why batteries are a problem...the Voyage space probe launched in 1977. those batteries developed over 46 years ago are STILL running strong in the absolute cold and vacuum of space. the 46 year old solar panels are still kicking as well and are able to generate enough power to run the probe even at distances from the sun where the sun can only appear as a pin prick of light. just that alone compels me to think that technology is more than capable of powering a vehicle here on earth in such an accommodating environment...

 
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MazeVX

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A phenomenon that I experienced with every ev I drove was that it dropped the range unexpectedly after an overtaking without regenerating. A few seconds of higher demand ate 100km range and that makes sense with how the batteries work...
That is something that is a huge problem for overlanding.
 

EV-offroad

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A phenomenon that I experienced with every ev I drove was that it dropped the range unexpectedly after an overtaking without regenerating. A few seconds of higher demand ate 100km range and that makes sense with how the batteries work...
That is something that is a huge problem for overlanding.
Interesting. Could you give more specifics on how that was tested. Personally I have found that the regen system works very well in the IONIQ 5. In fact, I drive to work about 8 miles each day and actuall gain a slight amount of energy going mostly downhill. It is true that regen will never be as efficient as the loss of energy going uphill but it helps quite a bit and also acts like a low gear engagement to save the break pads. I use my breaks probably half as much with my EV as with my ICE. In some light overlanding scenarios my range has been phenomenal beacuse I usally travel maybe 35-45mph which extends range a ton. I'm sure that a few bursts of full throttle going uphill in mud will eat some ions but not 100km. After all, range estimates and EPA ratings include hills and highways. We need a to do a full overlanding trek video to get some updated hard data with specific vehicles and notes about specific elevation change and temperature. While descending Mauna Kea last week in a jeep I could not help thinking about my EV. The ranger station stopped us at the bottom and were impressed with our break temperature of 175 degrees but it did take some serious fininicking on the way down. I wished all that energy had gone back into ions instead of heat.
 
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socal66

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now THATS exactly what i'd expect a bot to say...

ha. well, here's an interesting article about electric vehicles. electric vehicles were invented and used a good bit before gas vehicles and apparently suffered the same issues we are seeing now, over 100 years later.
im not sure why batteries are a problem...the Voyage space probe launched in 1977. those batteries developed over 46 years ago are STILL running strong in the absolute cold and vacuum of space. the 46 year old solar panels are still kicking as well and are able to generate enough power to run the probe even at distances from the sun where the sun can only appear as a pin prick of light. just that alone compels me to think that technology is more than capable of powering a vehicle here on earth in such an accommodating environment...

Actually the Voyager probes have no solar panels and are powered by the decay of plutonium in their RTG nuclear reactors. Still waiting for that NASA tech to trickle down to my vehicle.
 

MazeVX

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We drove normally and I passed a vehicle on the autobahn. Accelerated to overtake a truck and fell back to approximately 70mph.
I'm sorry to say but what you have written sounds like advertisement, except for the braking part. Practical experience shows that each and every crap reduces the range in a complete unpredictable way.
Vehicles were a tesla Y longrange, VW ID3 and Tesla model 3 and each and every one showed the same behavior a few seconds full throttle - lots of range gone...
 
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rgallant

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@MazeVX that makes sense the higher load on the motors equates to more battery draw so less range. Drones and R/C helos exhibited the same using lithium batteries, you lose between a 1/4 and 1/3 for flight times flying in sport or hi performance modes. Of course, there is no regenerating effect in those to recoup. But your example is pretty standard on most highways with long flats and no braking so there is no regenerative recovery or at least not enough to matter.
 
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EV-offroad

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We drove normally and I passed a vehicle on the autobahn. Accelerated to overtake a truck and fell back to approximately 70mph.
I'm sorry to say but what you have written sounds like advertisement, except for the braking part. Practical experience shows that each and every crap reduces the range in a complete unpredictable way.
Vehicles were a tesla Y longrange, VW ID3 and Tesla model 3 and each and every one showed the same behavior a few seconds full throttle - lots of range gone...
I see what you are saying. I did not realize you meant temporary instantaneous reduction in range estimate. Certainly kW/hr rate drops off tremendously every time you step on the accelerator. Yes of course. But the rate gets restored when going downhill or backing off accelerator. Overall, I think I would agree that going up and down hill constantly would burn ions faster than a level highway trip. That is just the physics of friction. This factor needs to be balanced with the idea that slower overlanding speeds and some gains from regen braking would garner back some range. Hence the need to compare and report in real world experience. You can see from my video that there is about 15% range hit from the roof rack and off-road tires and of course the biggest loss in range is from traveling at highway speeds over 65mph. Thus loss from up and down hills in the mud versus gains from regen braking and slower speeds would be interesting to test.
 
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MazeVX

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@MazeVX that makes sense the higher load on the motors equates to more battery draw so less range. Drones and R/C helos exhibited the same using lithium batteries, you lose between a 1/4 and 1/3 for flight times flying in sport or hi performance modes. Of course, there is no regenerating effect in those to recoup. But your example is pretty standard on most highways with long flats and no braking so there is no regenerative recovery or at least not enough to matter.
Absolutely, it's just what batteries do. The faster you drain the less usable capacity you have.
Since there is no way to predict or calculate situations like this, range will stay unpredictable especially in off highway driving. Unpredictable range is an absolute killer for overlanding.
Recuperation is very limited in passenger vehicles due to the relatively low mass.
In predictable daily commuter traffic or common driving situations EV's really shine and vehicles like the Aptera show how the future of urban personnel transportation could look like.
 

EV-offroad

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now THATS exactly what i'd expect a bot to say...

ha. well, here's an interesting article about electric vehicles. electric vehicles were invented and used a good bit before gas vehicles and apparently suffered the same issues we are seeing now, over 100 years later.
im not sure why batteries are a problem...the Voyage space probe launched in 1977. those batteries developed over 46 years ago are STILL running strong in the absolute cold and vacuum of space. the 46 year old solar panels are still kicking as well and are able to generate enough power to run the probe even at distances from the sun where the sun can only appear as a pin prick of light. just that alone compels me to think that technology is more than capable of powering a vehicle here on earth in such an accommodating environment...

true indeed.. not withstanding the growing pains we are seeing now I am excited about energy future. Maybe a Mr Fusion reactor comes next!
 

EV-offroad

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Absolutely, it's just what batteries do. The faster you drain the less usable capacity you have.
Since there is no way to predict or calculate situations like this, range will stay unpredictable especially in off highway driving. Unpredictable range is an absolute killer for overlanding.
Recuperation is very limited in passenger vehicles due to the relatively low mass.
In predictable daily commuter traffic or common driving situations EV's really shine and vehicles like the Aptera show how the future of urban personnel transportation could look like.
There is also this coming at some point. Hopefully not just a tease that takes ten years to materialize and cost twice as much as originally advertised.
 

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I feel like I'm making a lot of "here's the deal" posts these days, but here comes another one...

Once a technology becomes universally superior, there will still be people who hate on it. Look at ICE cars. They were universally superior for the last 100 years. If nobody hated on them, we wouldn't be making advancements in electric cars today.

@EV-offroad After seeing the F-150 Lightning in action on such an expedition, loaded down with about the same amount of gear that these totally-ridiculously-heavyweight travelers like to carry, you must accept the fact that it isn't practical for most. You must also accept the fact that most of the people who would attempt such a trip carry the tons of gear that drain their MPG's and would drain the expected range of an EV much more, which several have mentioned. No matter how much an EV might work for you or me or somebody else, that doesn't mean the others will like it.

You must also accept the fact that driving around these 8,000 pound monster rigs loaded down with drawers and decks and fridges and kitchen RTT trailers aren't practical for some of us either. Those are the guys you're bringing an EV to. They scoff at my vehicle, too.

Don't play the victim because other people don't like your toy. Just do your stuff, man. If you feel like you have to defend what you're doing, you're probably thinking about it too much and not enjoying it enough. Go drive your rig to Miami or take a run around Moab or rip down some fire roads or whatever you like to do, but don't expect to find many people who like the way you do what you do, or the tools you use to do it.

Nobody likes what I do either, so I don't post it on the Internet.
 

EV-offroad

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I don't get offended easily and can't play victim anyway with an overlander that costs $4 to fuel for a 250 mile trip, goes 0-60 in 4.9 seconds and doesn't break down like my old camaro used to (although maybe because I built it myself). I have rhino skin and enjoy the discussions. Not looking to convert anyone to love or hate on EVs. Not stirring the pot so much as inviting intelligent discussion about overlanding in the context of a newer technology. Its interesting to compare the comments here to the ones on the Rivian or IONIQ site. We are all doing the same thing here just coming at it with different approach angles :blush:

But if anyone has anything to say about mods for overlanding EVs I'm all ears. Also looking at this future option. Rivians can get 400 mile range or so which adds to the discussion. Crazy expensive though so not an option for me.

 
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