Influencer II
After the loss of our last one.. Wifey is set against another. Real shame for I agree, best of all scenarios!
Non Lethal self protection
- Thread starter RJ Howell
- Start date
Influencer II
My state is a 'Stand your ground' state, as are I believe 28 others. It's those states that are not or Federal Lands.. I looked at the Byrna and liked the HDR50 for velocity and pricing mainly. Both are pretty darn close in performance. Not sure if the build's are the same as the HDR50 (or 68), but liking those as well. Plenty of choices for projectiles! Umarex also has a pretty nice carbine.I have Byrna pistol. I do think it's necessary to have a non-lethal option, since they no longer let you use lethal force to protect your property.  Someone can literally be beating your truck with a baseball bat, and if you're not in it at the time, you can't use lethal force. For self-defense there is no substitute for a firearm. If your circumstances don't allow you to own a gun, I would look at the AR-15 version of a pepper ball gun. They shoot solid kinetic rounds also.
BYRNA LESS-LETHAL PISTOLS
Byrna Less-Lethal pistols are non lethal self defense weapons powered by compressed air (CO2) and fire chemical and / or kinetic rounds capable of incapacitating a threatening suspect from up to 60ft feet away for up to 45 minutes.byrna.com
Really looking for something to replace my .45acp on travels.
HighVoltOverland
Rank IX
Builder III
- 13,487
- First Name
- Gus
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31666
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- Army
Honest question, why would you want to?since they no longer let you use lethal force to protect your property. 
Someone can literally be beating your truck with a baseball bat, and if you're not in it at the time, you can't use lethal force.
BYRNA LESS-LETHAL PISTOLS
Byrna Less-Lethal pistols are non lethal self defense weapons powered by compressed air (CO2) and fire chemical and / or kinetic rounds capable of incapacitating a threatening suspect from up to 60ft feet away for up to 45 minutes.
If there is a very real threat of physical injury or death, lethal force seems justified as a means of defense, and virtually all states seem to agree on that.
But, why would anyone deserve to die because damage was done to an object I've paid for?
How would we legally determine what action warrants lethal intervention?
Is there a $$$ that should be met as a threshold for if it is justified? Would that become the de facto value of a human life?
How do you account for vehicle value? A man bashing in the windshield of a jeep will likely create less financial burden than someone who keys a McLaren.
Influencer II
This is not the place for debate and exactly what I did not wish to see start. Please refrain!
HighVoltOverland
Rank IX
Builder III
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- Gus
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31666
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Hey bud!
I get the concern about debate and wanting things not to devolve into mud-slinging, name calling, become politicized, etc.
I promise, I sincerely was asking from a place of genuine curiosity and desire to learn.
I know everyone here has different experiences and I was hoping to hear how some of those experiences shaped their decision making.
Cheers!
Most everything is a "less than lethal" weapon if you use it as such, similarly most everything is a "lethal weapon" if you apply it with adequate vigor.
I carry bear spray for bears and slow learners and while you're trying to get that shit out of your eyes I'm going to make sure you need a wheel chair for about the next 16 months and walk with a permanent limp. The force continuum from there trends lethal.
I carry bear spray for bears and slow learners and while you're trying to get that shit out of your eyes I'm going to make sure you need a wheel chair for about the next 16 months and walk with a permanent limp. The force continuum from there trends lethal.
If you choose a less than lethal weapon that LOOKS like a firearm, expect your adversary may respond with a REAL firearm.
I believe that our best defense is our intelligence. Use words to de-escalate the situation and then create distance, preferably measured in miles. If you travel with family or other companions, this should be a conversation you have before you even depart on your trip.
I believe that our best defense is our intelligence. Use words to de-escalate the situation and then create distance, preferably measured in miles. If you travel with family or other companions, this should be a conversation you have before you even depart on your trip.
Traveler III
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- Kelly
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- Herrin
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2032
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This guy killed this couple and buried them on the beach where they were camping in South Texas. If you are legally able, please consider getting some training and purchasing a firearm.
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BAJA-X
Rank II
Enthusiast III
I don't always carry a firearm but when I do it is because I am to old to get my A___ kicked and too young to die.
Influencer I
Influencer II
That is one of many reports out there. I agree with getting trained, nothing like knowing how if required. I have non-lethal rounds for my .45, yet it's a firearm and illegal in several states and most federal lands.Where as the Umarex (or others like) is legal. With projectiles like 'stinks like hell' to 'hurts like hell' I see it as a good determent.
Influencer II
There is a distance rule that changes from words to action being required. Once that is crossed, is is no other choice. As Kelley is adamant about and I agree, training! I have lethal & non lethal rounds for my .45. My proposed option to replace has the power to hurt and give opportunity for secondary action. What that is depends on the situation a hand and that can very well be distance. You need the options!
Oh ya, my carry is not a discussion. My protection of myself and those around me is not either.
Don't use wasp spray. It's been reformulated since they found out that field techs were using it for defense.
Use bear spray and a knife.
I carry a Glock 23.4. And keep an Ar15 and shotgun nearby. In the camper if so equipped.
Use bear spray and a knife.
I carry a Glock 23.4. And keep an Ar15 and shotgun nearby. In the camper if so equipped.
i like the idea of something like this...
but secretly modify it with a piston and an air cylinder that can extend the fist at 2300 fps
but secretly modify it with a piston and an air cylinder that can extend the fist at 2300 fps
Can it come with oil slick shoes?i like the idea of something like this...
but secretly modify it with a piston and an air cylinder that can extend the fist at 2300 fps
View attachment 270179
AggieOE
Rank IV
Advocate II
My honest-to-goodness truthful things I always carry with me (albeit cliche) are a gut check and fearful anger. I have a hard time 100% believing that I can rely on my ability to grab my preferred choice of defense and use it effectively. My dad was an officer and headed up a crime scene investigation unit for decades and told me people can often be found within inches or feet of their tool of choice.
Although it isn't always as fun, I will gladly leave an area if I feel even slightly uneasy. There's no sleep being had if you have no peace. This has meant finding a new or different hotel for the night sometimes when camping or leaving early from events that don't have a predictable pleasant future. It may make for an unhappy wife or family but it hopefully makes for one you get to see the next day.
Also, as I now have a kid and wife and a future with them I'm terrified to lose, I think anything in grabbing range can be a deadly weapon.
That being said, I usually travel armed and train often enough.
Also.... don't do road rage (I keep telling myself). @grubworm is hitting the nail on the head with how quickly stupid people can ruin it for everyone.
Although it isn't always as fun, I will gladly leave an area if I feel even slightly uneasy. There's no sleep being had if you have no peace. This has meant finding a new or different hotel for the night sometimes when camping or leaving early from events that don't have a predictable pleasant future. It may make for an unhappy wife or family but it hopefully makes for one you get to see the next day.
Also, as I now have a kid and wife and a future with them I'm terrified to lose, I think anything in grabbing range can be a deadly weapon.
That being said, I usually travel armed and train often enough.
Also.... don't do road rage (I keep telling myself). @grubworm is hitting the nail on the head with how quickly stupid people can ruin it for everyone.
Enthusiast III
Couple things I feel that are important that aren’t being said here. 1 there’s no such thing as non lethal. The proper term is less lethal because there is always that slim chance that it does become fatal when in use. The other huge thing is it honestly depends on state to state laws of what’s allowed and what’s not. Example in the state of Connecticut you can own and use a taser for self defense within your own home, however you cannot carry it out anywhere but there. Bear spray can be considered to be a felony if used on a person in some states because it’s concentration and potency. As for anything else, generally speaking using blunt force or a knife of any kind weirdly enough be very difficult to articulate self defense in court. Granted each case is different, these are very important things to note when deciding how you’ll defend yourself and family in a potentially undesirable situation. Less lethals are hard because without lack of training and discernment when to use vs when to use lethal. There are not great options. Best I can say is look into the laws of the states you’re planning on traveling to, and plan accordingly. Take some classes.
