Do the early Tacomas deserve their reputation?

[Arkansas_SR5]

I’ve got a 96 that is currently in need of its third 3.4 V6 at “only” 250,000 miles after originally being replaced in early 2020. The driveshaft also recently gave out, along with the dripping steering rack and mysteriously disappearing brake fluid.

I also had a 98 with the 2.7 that had a cracked exhaust manifold which luckily in my case didn’t lead to a burnt valve. But I did eventually find a hole in the frame - it looked clean, but at the time I was unaware of their propensity to rot from the inside out even in relatively mild conditions.

Yes, I know these are typical things that come up on older cars, but they still seem at odds with their “bulletproof” reputation. I talk to people about whether it’s worth it to throw another 5VZ in my truck, and they tell me “those are always worth fixing.” I’m left wondering why they’re any more “worth it” than any other old truck, however.

I’m beginning to think “old Toyotas run forever” just means that fanboys are so infatuated with them being so reliable that they dunk thousands of dollars into their clapped out jalopies in order to make them reliable, regularly replacing the engines and everything around them when they shit the bed. And with Toyota, everything counts as maintenance, up to basically rebuilding the whole vehicle.

Marketplace is chock full of Toyota V6s, and the forums are full of accounts of burnt valves, cracked heads, and of course the infamous tension loaded ball joints that literally cause the wheels to fall off when they fail (see: Toyota LBJ Failure Support Group on Facebook).

And this particular generation of IFS is piss weak when tested on truly technical trails - put on tires bigger than 33s, especially when used with a front locker, and they will snap CVs and third members like candy. See post 26 and onward on this thread: Is a Land Cruiser really better off-road than a Tacoma? My experience says the opposite...

Before all the Toyota cultists come after me, I’ve had good experiences with some Toyotas, like a 1996 Camry wagon and 97 Land Cruiser, along with a 13 Avalon. But for me, the quality and reliability wasn’t there with the early Tacomas. At least they’re not any less crappy than any other truck of that vintage; in fact, most OEMs made a pretty decent drivetrain in the 90s, even Dodge. In fact, there’s plenty of Big 3 domestic trucks from the 2000s and earlier still putting in work in fairly brutal conditions on American farms, racking up the miles without all the fanfare of Toyota.

I guess I’m just curious where all the hype comes from. Maybe it’s the sleek good looks, or the reputation Toyota built by offering a higher-quality product in the 1980s, which was a low bar set by GM and the other domestics at the time.

Anyway, go ahead and flame and downvote if you want. I’m just a bit frustrated from having wasted so much money after buying into all the internet hype instead of digging deeper into what all can go wrong on these trucks. Oh well, I have no one to blame but myself. Regardless, I think I’ve owned my last Tacoma.

 

[smritte]

Regardless of internet hype, that thing was worn out 100k ago. You also cant mod a vehicle then say it doesn't hold up to...... I've spent decades in the industry and just as long modifying/racing vehicles. I don't look at the "IFS" or "solid axle". I look at axle spline and diff size then say "it will hold up to these gears and these tires" "or not". I also know the strengths and weakness of most of the vehicles we love to mod. I don't care who made the engine, the seals are pretty much the same. That means they all start leaking about the same time. No magic with power steering pumps (sorry ford) same with gear box's and steering racks. Again, I look at the size of the part and determine what it can do. There's a video of a new Tacoma with 37's snapping his steering in the rocks. The remarks are "I thought they were strong" Uhhh..... Look at the size of the steering. Not designed for that. If you want to hard wheel that truck, lift and tires wont cut it. Stronger steering, bigger diffs and axles to start.

My cruiser engine, cylinders were coated with niklasil. 200k rebuild and not only was there no taper but the cross hatch was still there. Block wise, there's little out there to compare strength wise. But, not designed for commuting even though people do.
Toyota trucks for their class have always gone overkill with their trans and brakes. That doesn't mean they are any better offroad. I have close to 30k in a 96 Cruiser. 230k miles what's not new is heavily modded. I'm also running 33" tires. My expectations are met but I wont leave it stock and drive it the way I do. If I want to go to 37's, i need stronger parts and more mods. People ask my opinions and then say "I'm not racing it in Baja". No your not, if you were, your about $100k short on the build.

I could find fault with every manufacture out there but when a Toyota doesn't last 1m miles, people are disappointed. I wont go on a rant comparing Jeep or Ford or GM.

Bottom line is, newer generation vehicles are better. I commonly discourage people from buying older unless they know exactly what their doing.

 

[Arkansas_SR5]

Regardless of internet hype, that thing was worn out 100k ago. You also cant mod a vehicle then say it doesn't hold up to...... I've spent decades in the industry and just as long modifying/racing vehicles. I don't look at the "IFS" or "solid axle". I look at axle spline and diff size then say "it will hold up to these gears and these tires" "or not". I also know the strengths and weakness of most of the vehicles we love to mod. I don't care who made the engine, the seals are pretty much the same. That means they all start leaking about the same time. No magic with power steering pumps (sorry ford) same with gear box's and steering racks. Again, I look at the size of the part and determine what it can do. There's a video of a new Tacoma with 37's snapping his steering in the rocks. The remarks are "I thought they were strong" Uhhh..... Look at the size of the steering. Not designed for that. If you want to hard wheel that truck, lift and tires wont cut it. Stronger steering, bigger diffs and axles to start.

My cruiser engine, cylinders were coated with niklasil. 200k rebuild and not only was there no taper but the cross hatch was still there. Block wise, there's little out there to compare strength wise. But, not designed for commuting even though people do.
Toyota trucks for their class have always gone overkill with their trans and brakes. That doesn't mean they are any better offroad. I have close to 30k in a 96 Cruiser. 230k miles what's not new is heavily modded. I'm also running 33" tires. My expectations are met but I wont leave it stock and drive it the way I do. If I want to go to 37's, i need stronger parts and more mods. People ask my opinions and then say "I'm not racing it in Baja". No your not, if you were, your about $100k short on the build.

I could find fault with every manufacture out there but when a Toyota doesn't last 1m miles, people are disappointed. I wont go on a rant comparing Jeep or Ford or GM.

Bottom line is, newer generation vehicles are better. I commonly discourage people from buying older unless they know exactly what their doing.

Newer is better to a point, maybe. Look at the disastrous engine failures with the new 3.4 V6 TTs in the newer GXs. And all the emissions failures on the newer diesels.

 

[rgallant]

I think the problem is people forget these things are old, your 96 is pushing 30 years, my Land Rover Discovery II is at 20. I was told how terrible they are (LR) and how they are giant money pits and to buy a Toyota. As noted by @smritte look after them do not just throw a ton of stuff on them and expect them to be perfect and not break.

Other than a failed head gasket due a bad job done by a previous owner my LR has been good to me, have I had parts fail sure but nothing terrible and nothing that left me stranded.

As to Toyota's or any other vehicle, if they last when looked after then they are alright, if they last when they are ignored then they are good.

 

[smritte]

Newer is better to a point, maybe

Obviously you haven't noted the other manufactures. Technology evolves. Compare American manufactures to Japanese. The American industry will have a failed product and wont fix it until that body design is done or the government forces them. At that point its only a band aid fix. The Japanese , especially Toyota will own it instantly and attempt to permanently remedy it. FYI the expected life span of a vehicle is 4-5 years. This is from a Manufacture stand point. Its not written but you can tell by reading subtle hints in shop manuals and manufacturing techniques. Why do you thing the "lease" program was started?

How do I know this? 25 years working for the American industry and following the Japanese. 20 years working as a trainer. I currently work as a trainer for Toyota and am privy to corporate info. No vehicle is flawless. I can point fingers at diffrent flaws throughout the industry. The American industry doesn't get anywhere near the press they should for their failures let alone the lack of customer service.

This is not me going on a rant due to being some kind of "Fan Boy" this is decades of research and learning how things work. Seeing failures and trying to figure out why. A common saying technicians have is "why did they build it like that?" Especially when you see known failed technology.

I could spend hours listing the unreported failures across the American car lines and the few failures in the Japanese. By the way, anyone who worked anywhere near as long as I did for the American industry remembers the American workers sabotaging the vehicle's to "get back at the man". That never happened in any other industry other than ours. I cant comment on European because I never tracked them.

Dont forget to look at oil clearance specs older vs newer. in the past you ran 30wt oil due to bearing clearances of the engines. Now you run 0/something. The American industry ran good metals in their "special performance" vehicle's. High nickel and forged components were standard in most Japanese. Today engines are more precise with better metal. Transmissions are geared better.

Its OK to be mad at your 30 year old vehicle. Just understand, its long worn out.

 

[smritte]

I forgot a main point. The 80's vehicles were a disaster. The 90s were not much better but, in the 90s, the American and Japanese industry had to evolve to a "commuter vehicle" market. Emission control and fuel milage standards were getting out of hand with the industry needing to detune vehicles. Your V6 is what Toyota did. The Industry put out engines designed to get better economy, drive well on highways and meet emission standards. The 4cyl motors were way better but didn't drive down the freeway well enough to satisfy consumers. Meanwhile The American industry just made 1950's era engines meet emission standards.
One other point. Some world market engines were forced to use "American Compliant" gaskets. These didn't hold up to high milage. Today all these things have evolved.

When we talk about new vs old. There's that to consider.