Trail Security

[rgallant]

Canada is easy no handguns or restricted weapons, AR's and few other rifle fallin this category. They are range only.

And the big difference is you can not by a firearm in Canada for self defense against people only critters. If you use one legitimately to defend yourself and family, odds are you will be dragged through the ringer and it will cost you a ton of money to defend yourself and you may serve time. Crazy yup but that is how it is.
Non-restricted rifles technically just need to be unloaded, but as our firearms laws are so convoluted, out of sight is a good plan. Once you are on the FSR, you can have it accessible but it still needs to be unloaded.
Not every province is the same, the east tends to be way more restrictive than the west.

Unlike the US though we have long gun and shotgun options that are very short, I carry an 14 inch barrel, 12 gauge pump shotgun , in my truck and single point slung when I hike. I load up bar slugs, and practice a lot, That is no different than carrying a hunting rifle.

Mares leg short style short rifles in in big calibers are popular as well.

The big issue is any provincial or national parks no firearms, you can have one stored an out of sight - a trigger lock makes the rangers happy if you stay overnight.

But in fairness with 2 exceptions every bear that I have seen including 1 big Grizz ran when they saw me. I have been bluff charged once fishing a creek, that was a slow backup to the other side. The other was a pair of cubs, came out of the brush on either side me while I was fishing lakeshore, I just went into the lake and started swimming. Mom grunted and bounced a lot but left me be.

And as to the pistol article if you shoot a bear up here you better put it down, if you let a wounded bear wander off you will be charged. Even killing one is self defense requires you to report it and prove there was a actual threat to your life, poachers have made that worse. Generally it is not too much of a problem, but there have been cases were the Conservation officer felt the shooting was unwarranted.

We used to be that way, independent and no one thought twice about firearms. But city dwellers here, run they country and mostly all they see is never ending gang violence. So all guns are bad, add politicans trying win seats and guns owner are a very easy target (excuse the pun).

 

[Angel Rivera]

Let me start again by saying I am a gun owner. Have been for decades. But I know that for many people, the sight of a firearm is associated with police or military activity or personnel, and I am neither. So when I carry, I carry concealed unless otherwise mandated.

Also, while I understand this discussion might include talk of firearms, I gotta think there's more to it than that. Bear, buffalo, and other wildlife safety. Locking your gear and your truck. Securing the kayaks on the roof rack. How to reach someone if you do need help. Moving about and making decisions as sensibly as possible to avoid any issues or conflicts that may arise. Hardening yourself and your gear as a target and not appearing as a threat to wildlife -thats kind of what I'm monitoring this thread for, personally. Although I admit I might have missed the OP's point

I completely agree. First and foremost you have to be paying attention and plan accordingly. This is my 72 hour bag. Should everything go sideways, this bag should keep me alive for up to 72 hours while help is dispatched. I carried 325 grain +p rounds which will wreck havoc on a predator. Carried a Shockwave, bear spray, an air horn, as well. I was traveling alone.

Now, for the story. My last long trip was Anchorage to Prudhoe Bay to the Arctic Ocean. Six day round trip. Early morning in ColdFoot found me getting ready to hit the road. Checking vehicle, a walk around, cleaning mud caked windows, front and rear lights, and general clean up. Programming next Audiobook. I hear the front facing camera warble. Something is in front of the vehicle. I turn to look and there’s a big mama moose with her kid close to me. Paying close attention. Her ears twitching between standing alert to hear, and flat back. She’s angry. Not my fault! The air horn, bear spray, e-tool is in a tote in the back. Governor? On 72 hour bag like the pic, in back. Hadn’t placed it up front. Shockwave? Back seat among totes facing wrong way. Not that I wanted to shoot it, but if it had attacked quickly, I would have been severely injured, or worse-the Hummer would have been damaged. But someone was watching over me. On the other side of the clearing was a mushing kennel, and the dogs decided at that moment to start a ruckus. She looked away and I slinked into the front passenger seat quickly. She forgot about me, and leisurely walked away. I waited until she and the kid were gone. I should have known better... I’m not a Cheechako...

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I completely agree. First and foremost you have to be paying attention and plan accordingly. This is my 72 hour bag. Should everything go sideways, this bag should keep me alive for up to 72 hours while help is dispatched. I carried 325 grain +p rounds which will wreck havoc on a predator. Carried a Shockwave, bear spray, an air horn, as well. I was traveling alone.

Now, for the story. My last long trip was Anchorage to Prudhoe Bay to the Arctic Ocean. Six day round trip. Early morning in ColdFoot found me getting ready to hit the road. Checking vehicle, a walk around, cleaning mud caked windows, front and rear lights, and general clean up. Programming next Audiobook. I hear the front facing camera warble. Something is in front of the vehicle. I turn to look and there’s a big mama moose with her kid close to me. Paying close attention. Her ears twitching between standing alert to hear, and flat back. She’s angry. Not my fault! The air horn, bear spray, e-tool is in a tote in the back. Governor? On 72 hour bag like the pic, in back. Hadn’t placed it up front. Shockwave? Back seat among totes facing wrong way. Not that I wanted to shoot it, but if it had attacked quickly, I would have been severely injured, or worse-the Hummer would have been damaged. But someone was watching over me. On the other side of the clearing was a mushing kennel, and the dogs decided at that moment to start a ruckus. She looked away and I slinked into the front passenger seat quickly. She forgot about me, and leisurely walked away. I waited until she and the kid were gone. I should have known better... I’m not a Cheechako...

Next time invite a law maker with you to face down a beast like that and he will likely change the law fast. Problem with most law makers is they know nothing about the laws they make. That goes for lawmakers in the USA as well. When did an animal's life become more important than any human life ?

 

[Angel Rivera]

Next time invite a law maker with you to face down a beast like that and he will likely change the law fast. Problem with most law makers is they know nothing about the laws they make. That goes for lawmakers in the USA as well. When did an animal's life become more important than any human life ?

‘You can get less time shooting a human than a bear or moose sometimes. They do not take poaching or wasting meat lightly.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

‘You can get less time shooting a human than a bear or moose sometimes. They do not take poaching or wasting meat lightly.

I'd rather live in Russia than Canada. Since when has there ever been a shortage of wild life in Canada. You don't take citizen rights away because of a few law breakers. A law that punishes everyone for the crime of a single group of people is an unjust law. Sick thinking !

 

[egilbe]

I've never felt the need to carry the entire time I've been hiking in Maine and NH. Guns are everywhere. Maine, NH and VT are Constitutional carry states. Lowest crime rates in the country. Black bears take off running when they see you. The Eastern Coyotes I've seen, here, are wolf hybrids. They can be as large as 100 lbs. They just stare at you, then they lope off unconcerned. Moose, I avoid. Too big, too unpredictable. Trailheads, sometimes, in the Spring when hiking season starts up and the lowlifes start crawling out from underneath the rocks they've Wintered under will have some broken glass, but they are usually caught or move on to safer pickings, or are caught. People are mostly good. Mostly. Never really ran into the problems here that I've run into out West.

The one time I've been shot at was when I was stationed at Ft Bliss in El Paso in '87 and a buddy of mine were out shooting Jack Rabbits in an area he called Red Sands. It's on the Mexican border. Driving down a dirt road and off in the distance, I saw a guy running up a hill about 600 yards distant, with a stick, or something, in his hand. We parked and got out of the truck, loaded our rifles and we both heard a buzzing noise go over our heads. We stopped and looked at each other thinking "what was that?" "You heard it too?" Another buzzing noise goes over our heads and it started to dawn on me that somebody was shooting at us, the third shot convinced us and we jumped into the truck and drove out of sight of the hill. We started to getback out and my buddy looked at me, "some soldiers we are, take off running when we should have returned fire." I just started laughing. Nervous energy I suppose. No need to get into a shootout with crazy mexican drug smugglers. Mini-14's do a number on Jackrabbits by the way. Not much left to them.

We always would go out shooting in the desert. Never thought much of property lines back then, unless it was posted. In Maine, 80% of the land is privately owned and there is a long tradition of sharing the lands bounty with your neighbors. Unless it's explicitly posted, there is an implicit right to hunt or fish private property. Unfortunately, too many people from communist states are moving up here for the freedoms Maine has, and are doing their damnedest to turn it into the communist states they ran from.

The ability to defend oneself and the pursuit of happiness and liberty were once liberal ideas. How dare the common man want the same rights enjoyed by the priviliged few?

Do you feel you have the right to live?
Do you feel anyone has the right to take your right to live away from you?
Do you feel you have the right to defend yourself?
Do you feel anyone has the right to tell you how you can defend your right to live?

What a long strange trip it's been

 

[Billiebob]

Thank you for the article. I hope @BillyBob and @WAYAWAY read this.

why mention me ?

I've been in several threatening situations, human and animal, a gun would have only escalated the risks. 65 years old and never fired a gun in my life. NEEDING a gun, Thinking you NEED a gun is a weakness.

I'm not about to change because some short sighted person wrote an article extolling the virtues of firearms. I live in a democracy backed up by many Commonwealth Nations, 32 of them, with a Monarchy, Queen who pulls us all together. The sun never sets on the Commonwealth. Not that we are anti gun, just that we know our life and liberty is not dependent on guns. And that is freedom.

 

[Billiebob]

Since we are on security and I have been singled out, lets talk security, defence spending. The USA spends 57% of their GDP on defence, actually offence. IF you cut that in half and spent that half on health care and education, the USA would be the smartest, healthiest nation in the world..... and still be spending more on defence than any other country in the world.

The USA spends more on guns than any other country in the world, just think if you put half that money into your kids education. So many options, if you think guns are optional.

And it is not that I am antigun, my best buddy has a munitions factory in his basement, in Canada lol..... He is a hunter big time, he loads all his ammunition, he has a walk in freezer for the game. But what I hate is the mentality that we NEED guns for liberty. None of my buddies guns are intended to take human life. He just loves hunting..... and I love his barbeques.

Every gun thread I read from the USA states, we need guns to defend ourselves. Pretty sad when your democracy says you don't trust it.

 

[egilbe]

Since we are on security and I have been singled out, lets talk security, defence spending. The USA spends 57% of their GDP on defence, actually offence. IF you cut that in half and spent that half on health care and education, the USA would be the smartest, healthiest nation in the world..... and still be spending more on defence than any other country in the world.

The USA spends more on guns than any other country in the world, just think if you put half that money into your kids education. So many options, if you think guns are optional.

And it is not that I am antigun, my best buddy has a munitions factory in his basement, in Canada lol..... He is a hunter big time, he loads all his ammunition, he has a walk in freezer for the game. But what I hate is the mentality that we NEED guns for liberty. None of my buddies guns are intended to take human life. He just loves hunting..... and I love his barbeques.

Every gun thread I read from the USA states, we need guns to defend ourselves. Pretty sad when your democracy says you don't trust it.

We don't have a democracy. That's tyranny by the majority. We have a representative Republic. Our government is perversely created to be unworkable. If our government was efficient, we would have Nazi Germany, Stalin's USSR, Mao's PRC...the danger is Government, always has been, always will be. People who crave power, who would enslave freedom loving peoples will always find a way to protect what power they have and an efficient way to consolidate more power. There is a reason the Bill of rights has the 1st Amendement first, so we freely discuss the problems of our government. The reason the 2nd amendment is the 2nd is so that the people have the means to protect the 1st amendment and prevent those who crave power to create a government to their liking.

That's the dream, anyway.

Did you know that all the military and all public servants swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution? Not the government, not the president, not the congressmen and Senators, but the Constitution. That idea is central to our country's identity. Guns aren't needed, until they are. Governments kill more people that any plague in the history of mankind. We don't want that to happen any more than it already has.

I'm a veteran and I agree that US defense spending has gotten out of hand. But the last time we were an isolationist country, we had to shirk that isolationism to defend Europe and Asia from Totalitarian governments, or do they not teach history in school anymore? That industrial complex has never let loose the hold on our country.

 

[Angel Rivera]

Did you know that all the military and all public servants swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution? Not the government, not the president, not the congressmen and Senators, but the Constitution. That idea is central to our country's identity. Guns aren't needed, until they are. Governments kill more people that any plague in the history of mankind. We don't want that to happen any more than it already has.

I'm a veteran and I agree that US defense spending has gotten out of hand. But the last time we were an isolationist country, we had to shirk that isolationism to defend Europe and Asia from Totalitarian governments, or do they not teach history in school anymore? That industrial complex has never let loose the hold on our country.

Thank you for your service. I too took that oath-as a young man. I stand by it at this age. But then, we’re really straying away from the subject matter. Let’s not make this a smaller Facebook please.

 

[egilbe]

Thank you for your service. I too took that oath-as a young man. I stand by it at this age. But then, we’re really straying away from the subject matter. Let’s not make this a smaller Facebook please.

Ditto

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I've never felt the need to carry the entire time I've been hiking in Maine and NH. Guns are everywhere. Maine, NH and VT are Constitutional carry states. Lowest crime rates in the country. Black bears take off running when they see you. The Eastern Coyotes I've seen, here, are wolf hybrids. They can be as large as 100 lbs. They just stare at you, then they lope off unconcerned. Moose, I avoid. Too big, too unpredictable. Trailheads, sometimes, in the Spring when hiking season starts up and the lowlifes start crawling out from underneath the rocks they've Wintered under will have some broken glass, but they are usually caught or move on to safer pickings, or are caught. People are mostly good. Mostly. Never really ran into the problems here that I've run into out West.

The one time I've been shot at was when I was stationed at Ft Bliss in El Paso in '87 and a buddy of mine were out shooting Jack Rabbits in an area he called Red Sands. It's on the Mexican border. Driving down a dirt road and off in the distance, I saw a guy running up a hill about 600 yards distant, with a stick, or something, in his hand. We parked and got out of the truck, loaded our rifles and we both heard a buzzing noise go over our heads. We stopped and looked at each other thinking "what was that?" "You heard it too?" Another buzzing noise goes over our heads and it started to dawn on me that somebody was shooting at us, the third shot convinced us and we jumped into the truck and drove out of sight of the hill. We started to getback out and my buddy looked at me, "some soldiers we are, take off running when we should have returned fire." I just started laughing. Nervous energy I suppose. No need to get into a shootout with crazy mexican drug smugglers. Mini-14's do a number on Jackrabbits by the way. Not much left to them.

We always would go out shooting in the desert. Never thought much of property lines back then, unless it was posted. In Maine, 80% of the land is privately owned and there is a long tradition of sharing the lands bounty with your neighbors. Unless it's explicitly posted, there is an implicit right to hunt or fish private property. Unfortunately, too many people from communist states are moving up here for the freedoms Maine has, and are doing their damnedest to turn it into the communist states they ran from.

The ability to defend oneself and the pursuit of happiness and liberty were once liberal ideas. How dare the common man want the same rights enjoyed by the priviliged few?

Do you feel you have the right to live?
Do you feel anyone has the right to take your right to live away from you?
Do you feel you have the right to defend yourself?
Do you feel anyone has the right to tell you how you can defend your right to live?

What a long strange trip it's been

I lived and worked for 62 years in El Paso, know where red sands are and still own half acre or land next to the old drag strip on Montana ave. It's not unusual to find shooters in that desert area who are not very well trained in safety, mostly kids without supervision. It was probably some kid out there target or rabbit hunting since there is housing out in that area even quite a long time ago.(20 years plus) Now there is subdivisions of housing out east of the entire area. That red sands area is a favorite spot for the Sheriffs posse to meet up and target practice as well. I use to wheel in that area all the time. Most of the drug smuggling is about another 50-60 miles s. east of the red sands and comes from plans dropping their load from the air and beating it back to Mexico before they can be caught.
Thanks for your service Buddy. Lanlubber

 

[bumbleruck]

This has gotten a little off topic, but I'd like to say that I've been attacked with knives by drugged up madmen and strangled by same. I only survived because I was not alone in these instances, and while the life was being choked out of me lemme tell you... I did not think "Well at least he doesn't have a gun!" If you haven't needed a gun that's fantastic and I'm genuinely happy for you, but count your blessings and don't assume that since you've been lucky not to face those situations that you're somehow morally superior.

I do think it was patently unfair to call out individuals on this thread though, that's not cool. I've enjoyed learning different people's ideas, strategies, and approaches to this stuff with and without firearms.

 

[DaleRF]

It's better to have it and not need it. That philosophy works with rain gear, weapons, jackets, you name it.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Since we are on security and I have been singled out, lets talk security, defence spending. The USA spends 57% of their GDP on defence, actually offence. IF you cut that in half and spent that half on health care and education, the USA would be the smartest, healthiest nation in the world..... and still be spending more on defence than any other country in the world.

The USA spends more on guns than any other country in the world, just think if you put half that money into your kids education. So many options, if you think guns are optional.

And it is not that I am antigun, my best buddy has a munitions factory in his basement, in Canada lol..... He is a hunter big time, he loads all his ammunition, he has a walk in freezer for the game. But what I hate is the mentality that we NEED guns for liberty. None of my buddies guns are intended to take human life. He just loves hunting..... and I love his barbeques.

Every gun thread I read from the USA states, we need guns to defend ourselves. Pretty sad when your democracy says you don't trust it.

Boy do you need an education on just where the US spends its money on defense. Check out how much foreign aid Canada receives from us for you to defend your borders. I think you forget how we won our freedom from tyranny. We kicked British ass to get it and we will always keep it because we are armed citizens. We are the largest militia army of civilians in the world. We don't think too kindly about a commonwealth democracy down here or their Socialist views.
I speak only for myself in case others take issue with what I say, that is their right.

 

[Angel Rivera]

My opinion is that everyone of us should do what we feel is right for ourselves-cause in the end, we are each of us responsible for ourselves. Stuff can happen, anywhere, anytime. I like to be prepared. I’m the king of the Plan B, personally and professionally.

 

[rgallant]

In the end firearms are just tools your requirements for one will vary depending on where you live and your personal beliefs and requirements. I have never needed to use one in anger, and as noted my bear interactions ended peacefully enough.

The shotgun is ideal both for it's small size and utility I carry 50 rounds of everything from deer slugs down to birdshot. If I had to hunt to survive for some reason I can. It is matter of considering possibilities and preparing for them, and it is entirely possible to be out of cellphone, radio range and sat devices can be dodgy too.
So it is just part my I broke down and gotta wait for a while kit or worst case walk. I have never used that either but it is in the truck every time I go out even for a day.

If hand guns were available to me, for carry, I would not carry one. Simply because I am not an effective shot with one and they do not meet my needs.

The issues of self defense are rare outside populated areas, largely because of the sheer size of Canada and it's small population, it is entirely possible to leave Vancouver and inside an hour an half be on a FSR and not see anyone for hours if not days.
The drug trade in BC, that you could run into in the bush, is largely grow op related and they tend to well away from any sort of vehicle trail and not protected by armed persons. So we have less of that sort of issue.

Trouble makers surely exist and I have run into a few, when I am ready to stop driving for the day but I just move on. Here in BC you can camp pretty much anywhere as long as you are not in a park, it makes finding a quiet place fairly easy.

 

[DaleRF]

In the end firearms are just tools your requirements for one will vary depending on where you live and your personal beliefs and requirements. I have never needed to use one in anger, and as noted my bear interactions ended peacefully enough.

The shotgun is ideal both for it's small size and utility I carry 50 rounds of everything from deer slugs down to birdshot. If I had to hunt to survive for some reason I can. It is matter of considering possibilities and preparing for them, and it is entirely possible to be out of cellphone, radio range and sat devices can be dodgy too.
So it is just part my I broke down and gotta wait for a while kit or worst case walk. I have never used that either but it is in the truck every time I go out even for a day.

If hand guns were available to me, for carry, I would not carry one. Simply because I am not an effective shot with one and they do not meet my needs.

The issues of self defense are rare outside populated areas, largely because of the sheer size of Canada and it's small population, it is entirely possible to leave Vancouver and inside an hour an half be on a FSR and not see anyone for hours if not days.
The drug trade in BC, that you could run into in the bush, is largely grow op related and they tend to well away from any sort of vehicle trail and not protected by armed persons. So we have less of that sort of issue.

Trouble makers surely exist and I have run into a few, when I am ready to stop driving for the day but I just move on. Here in BC you can camp pretty much anywhere as long as you are not in a park, it makes finding a quiet place fairly easy.

I completely agree. It depends on one's own circumstances and where one lives. I'm just a handful of miles from the US/Mexico border, and in a section next to the Drug-Runner / Human-Trafficker super highway into the US, so the self-defense dynamics are uniquely different in this area than many others.

 

[Offroadnutz]

We don't have a democracy. That's tyranny by the majority. We have a representative Republic. Our government is perversely created to be unworkable. If our government was efficient, we would have Nazi Germany, Stalin's USSR, Mao's PRC...the danger is Government, always has been, always will be. People who crave power, who would enslave freedom loving peoples will always find a way to protect what power they have and an efficient way to consolidate more power. There is a reason the Bill of rights has the 1st Amendement first, so we freely discuss the problems of our government. The reason the 2nd amendment is the 2nd is so that the people have the means to protect the 1st amendment and prevent those who crave power to create a government to their liking.

I wish more americans knew this. Especially the youth. The ignorance of the average american when it come to understanding our govt is pathetic. I hear the democracy bs all the time and when I correct them I usually get the deer in the headlights look.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I wish more americans knew this. Especially the youth. The ignorance of the average american when it come to understanding our govt is pathetic. I hear the democracy bs all the time and when I correct them I usually get the deer in the headlights look.

Right! Most specifically a "Democratic Representative Republic." But yes. Ask any kid today what kind of government we have and they spit out "Democracy." When I point out the meaning of THAT word, I explain to them that if that were true, a room full of 10 men could be allowed to "get intimate with" the one young woman in the room, as long as the majority voted by show of hands that it would be OK to do so. She'd likely be outvoted.

I had a Civics and Government class in high school in the 1980's and it is absolutely amazing how far that took me in terms of understanding the general operation of the government. I dont think those types of classes are required anymore.

Dont even get me started why we have the Electoral College