Enthusiast III
Has anybody heard about this? Not really a big deal I suppose if you're primarily using simplex but certainly sucks for those who take pride in owning repeaters at the very least.
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State of CALIFORNIA Calls for HAM Radio Repeaters Removal
- Thread starter Toywolf
- Start date
Member III
My response to the other thread on this topic:
Don't get me started on the website of the attorney that sent the reply to Cal-Fire or his Sit-Rep forms for his "neighborhood emergency radio club"....
If it was state wide I would imagine you would hear a larger uproar instead of from one guy's youtube show.
If it is truly a state wide thing (does the state own every mountain top in the state?) the ARRL will weigh in on it and until they do this is all just #fakenews.
Don't get me started on the website of the attorney that sent the reply to Cal-Fire or his Sit-Rep forms for his "neighborhood emergency radio club"....
If it was state wide I would imagine you would hear a larger uproar instead of from one guy's youtube show.
If it is truly a state wide thing (does the state own every mountain top in the state?) the ARRL will weigh in on it and until they do this is all just #fakenews.
Enthusiast III
I would most certainly hope that its just fake news. That was my first thought exactly that I was hearing about it for the first time from a youtube video my cousin had sent to me. Not to start a whole other topic on this but I don't think even California is that hard left haha. Also sorry if this was a redundant post. I tried looking for another on the matter but didn't have too much luck
Member III
The guy seems to make very clickbait type videos using women and likes to rant.. unfortunately he's a Jeeper too.
Seems the issue is localized to one small area and I surmise that there is more to the story than is being told.
Looks like someone isn't getting to free load (tower space) and is upset. It's unfortunate that something can't be worked out (again more back story there?) but as the saying goes... "Ass or gas, nobody rides for free."
No problem on the double post it wasn't in this section and I just happened to see it, sorry if that came across wrong...
Enthusiast III
I couldn't have said it better myself. None taken haha, I took it as it was intendedThe guy seems to make very clickbait type videos using women and likes to rant.. unfortunately he's a Jeeper too.
Seems the issue is localized to one small area and I surmise that there is more to the story than is being told.
Looks like someone isn't getting to free load (tower space) and is upset. It's unfortunate that something can't be worked out (again more back story there?) but as the saying goes... "Ass or gas, nobody rides for free."
No problem on the double post it wasn't in this section and I just happened to see it, sorry if that came across wrong...
Member III
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If true, once again, Kalifornia is trying to usurp the domain of the federal government. The state has no control over the air waves. They don't own them. They are explicitly set forth as a government OWNED item. The feds sell spectrum to providers. The federal government sets the rules/regs/laws governing this.
Member III
Member III
"Heads-up related to a California/ham radio video we do not need to have shared here... or anywhere for that matter...
There is a "viral video" going around proclaiming and asserting that "California declares ham radio no longer a benefit..."
That click bait, the content of the presentation, and the original situation prompting this video range from deceptive to false. Actually unbecoming amateur radio.
The original situation is over a repeater system not authorized to be in the State-owned radio site where it is/was. The State agency had no reason to fund the repeater site costs and suggested the individual make proper application and submit fees to be approved to stay at the site.
(EVERY radio in a State site must go through this process - from law enforcement to fire service to road maintenance to business to hams - someone/everyone has to pay.)
This story first came out via a private website encouraging everyone to call their representatives in hope of getting the issue turned in favor of the repeater owner. That content is also not completely honest or respectful to amateur radio or the agency involved.
There is more fact behind the story neither source above care to present. I've been in contact with people familiar with such issues at state, county and private levels in addition to my own experience in this realm.
As with good Elmering, the general good of amateur radio is best served by open, honest, objective, rational discourse, discovery and sharing - not 'reactions.'
That said - amateur radio is NOT dead in California, "the State" is NOT trying to kill it off, no one in any agency with a relationship to ham radio is against it. Simply, tax payer dollars are just not available to pay for everyone's/anyone's repeater site. That is all.
———————————-
Shared by Dan Tomlinson on the LAFD ACS Facebook page."
There is a "viral video" going around proclaiming and asserting that "California declares ham radio no longer a benefit..."
That click bait, the content of the presentation, and the original situation prompting this video range from deceptive to false. Actually unbecoming amateur radio.
The original situation is over a repeater system not authorized to be in the State-owned radio site where it is/was. The State agency had no reason to fund the repeater site costs and suggested the individual make proper application and submit fees to be approved to stay at the site.
(EVERY radio in a State site must go through this process - from law enforcement to fire service to road maintenance to business to hams - someone/everyone has to pay.)
This story first came out via a private website encouraging everyone to call their representatives in hope of getting the issue turned in favor of the repeater owner. That content is also not completely honest or respectful to amateur radio or the agency involved.
There is more fact behind the story neither source above care to present. I've been in contact with people familiar with such issues at state, county and private levels in addition to my own experience in this realm.
As with good Elmering, the general good of amateur radio is best served by open, honest, objective, rational discourse, discovery and sharing - not 'reactions.'
That said - amateur radio is NOT dead in California, "the State" is NOT trying to kill it off, no one in any agency with a relationship to ham radio is against it. Simply, tax payer dollars are just not available to pay for everyone's/anyone's repeater site. That is all.
———————————-
Shared by Dan Tomlinson on the LAFD ACS Facebook page."
Enthusiast III
That sounds reasonable.
I shared this story with some friends who own repeaters. One of them is aware of a couple other repeater owners who have received the letter, so it is not just this one community. If I am understanding correctly the repeater owners who are getting these letters are ones whose equipment is housed on towers belonging to CalFire.
What is most interesting is the tone of the letter. It certainly isn't a "let us help you get your equipment into compliance with requirements." That says more than anything else.
Regardless, there are other options for repeaters. If nothing else they can be moved to private property, as are many cell phone towers.
Enthusiast III
Here is the truth, read about it.
www.overlandbound.com
CALFIRE....Telling Hams Thanks But No Thanks????
NOT TRUE!!!!! (In a Nutshell, If your repeater resides in a CALFIRE vault, you must now begin to pay rent. CALFIRE will not FINANCE any amateur radio equipment or it's tenancy in their repeater vaults) CALFIRE is NOT divorcing itself from Ham Radio! Read Below Section Manager Carol...
Member III
Report Causes Concern and Confusion in California’s Amateur Radio Ranks
The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.
10/15/2019
By all credible and reliable accounts, the State of California has not turned its back on Amateur Radio as an emergency communication resource nor have established repeater owners been asked to remove their equipment from state-owned sites unless they pay sizeable fees. The California controversy, inflamed by a viral YouTube video, stemmed from a California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CAL FIRE) communication telling a repeater owner or group that Amateur Radio equipment would have to be removed from a state-owned site or “vault” if the owner(s) determined the cost was too great to proceed with a formal application to keep it there.
“I do understand and appreciate all of the service you have provided in the past,” CAL FIRE’s Lorina Pisi, told the unknown repeater owner(s) or group(s) last month. “However, with constantly changing technological advances, there is no longer the same benefit to State as previously provided. Therefore, the Department no longer financially supports HAM operators [sic] radios or tenancy. If you desire to enter into a formal agreement to operate and maintain said equipment, you must complete and submit attached collocation application along with fee as outlined on page one of application. There is cost associated with getting an agreement in place.”
It’s not clear to whom Pisi’s memo was addressed, since any name or names were redacted from the version of the memo that is being circulated. ARRL reached out to Pisi this week but has not heard back.
After receiving a lengthy communication from attorney Nathan Zeliff, K6DPS, of Shingletown, California, citing Pisi’s letter, Shasta County Sheriff Tom Bosenko did some asking around of his own. He reported that Jim Price, the Communications Center Operation Officer for the State Office of Emergency Services, explained to him that the matter is not a new one, and the issue of repeater equipment in state radio vaults has been going on for 5 years or longer.
“He said this gets down to a local level, if the local officials feel there is a need to have the ham radio repeaters in vaults in their area,” Bosenko told Zeliff. “As such, this gets down to authorization for vault space, clearances and authorization to access equipment in the vaults and contract agreements for the equipment to be in the vaults. The matter of cost and who will bear the cost for contracts and vault space has also been an issue for years.”
ARRL officials who have also looked into the situation agree that it’s been blown out of proportion by parties with their own agendas.
“The State of California has not made any determination we can find ‘that Ham Radio [is] no longer a benefit,’” Pacific Division Director Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT, is quoted on the Sacramento Valley Section website. “What happened is that CAL FIRE has transferred responsibility for its communications sites to its property management department. That department has the task of evaluating each site, its condition, use, and tenants. If a repeater not known to be associated with the emergency management function of a local jurisdiction is found in a CAL FIRE vault, the default action is to move it out or subject it to commercial rental rates.”
“Our contact in the California Office of Emergency Services suggests that, if any affected repeater is in any way involved with local emergency or government support activity, they should ask that agency to engage with CAL FIRE concerning the repeater. If the agency makes the case, there is a good chance that the repeater will be unaffected,” Tiemstra added.
ARRL Southwestern Division Director Dick Norton, N6AA, has been responding to inquiries with the same message.
Expedition Master III
So reading these various threads, and all the back and forth, in a nut-shell, it is California's way of a 'shake down'.....aka......checking the sofa cusions for any loose change they can find. The key phrase being FEE in the memo. Not very surprising in a State with such a large deficit.Report Causes Concern and Confusion in California’s Amateur Radio Ranks
The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.www.arrl.org
10/15/2019
By all credible and reliable accounts, the State of California has not turned its back on Amateur Radio as an emergency communication resource nor have established repeater owners been asked to remove their equipment from state-owned sites unless they pay sizeable fees. The California controversy, inflamed by a viral YouTube video, stemmed from a California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CAL FIRE) communication telling a repeater owner or group that Amateur Radio equipment would have to be removed from a state-owned site or “vault” if the owner(s) determined the cost was too great to proceed with a formal application to keep it there.
“I do understand and appreciate all of the service you have provided in the past,” CAL FIRE’s Lorina Pisi, told the unknown repeater owner(s) or group(s) last month. “However, with constantly changing technological advances, there is no longer the same benefit to State as previously provided. Therefore, the Department no longer financially supports HAM operators [sic] radios or tenancy. If you desire to enter into a formal agreement to operate and maintain said equipment, you must complete and submit attached collocation application along with fee as outlined on page one of application. There is cost associated with getting an agreement in place.”
It’s not clear to whom Pisi’s memo was addressed, since any name or names were redacted from the version of the memo that is being circulated. ARRL reached out to Pisi this week but has not heard back.
After receiving a lengthy communication from attorney Nathan Zeliff, K6DPS, of Shingletown, California, citing Pisi’s letter, Shasta County Sheriff Tom Bosenko did some asking around of his own. He reported that Jim Price, the Communications Center Operation Officer for the State Office of Emergency Services, explained to him that the matter is not a new one, and the issue of repeater equipment in state radio vaults has been going on for 5 years or longer.
“He said this gets down to a local level, if the local officials feel there is a need to have the ham radio repeaters in vaults in their area,” Bosenko told Zeliff. “As such, this gets down to authorization for vault space, clearances and authorization to access equipment in the vaults and contract agreements for the equipment to be in the vaults. The matter of cost and who will bear the cost for contracts and vault space has also been an issue for years.”
ARRL officials who have also looked into the situation agree that it’s been blown out of proportion by parties with their own agendas.
“The State of California has not made any determination we can find ‘that Ham Radio [is] no longer a benefit,’” Pacific Division Director Jim Tiemstra, K6JAT, is quoted on the Sacramento Valley Section website. “What happened is that CAL FIRE has transferred responsibility for its communications sites to its property management department. That department has the task of evaluating each site, its condition, use, and tenants. If a repeater not known to be associated with the emergency management function of a local jurisdiction is found in a CAL FIRE vault, the default action is to move it out or subject it to commercial rental rates.”
“Our contact in the California Office of Emergency Services suggests that, if any affected repeater is in any way involved with local emergency or government support activity, they should ask that agency to engage with CAL FIRE concerning the repeater. If the agency makes the case, there is a good chance that the repeater will be unaffected,” Tiemstra added.
ARRL Southwestern Division Director Dick Norton, N6AA, has been responding to inquiries with the same message.
Member III
Given that this seems to be a fairly isolated incident and from other things I have read it would appear the agency feels the group that operates the repeater are not providing a service to the agency. In which case there are no free rides and they must go through the same thing that any other entity who wants to put a repeater on that tower would have to go through.
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Don't forget Kalifornia is always the first to start all this kind of S - - - Never doubt that someone in that state will try and probably get , some kind of a law passed that will take away another of your first amendment rights. It's a F - - - - - - Communist state ! (IMO)
Enthusiast III
When CAL FIRE writes that amateur radio support is no longer useful for them, you can bet that other state agencies will take note and will possibly take similar positions.
Fortunately there are plenty of privately owned hilltop tower sites to move to, so I'm unconcerned that affected repeaters won't be able to find a home.
Fortunately there are plenty of privately owned hilltop tower sites to move to, so I'm unconcerned that affected repeaters won't be able to find a home.
Expedition Master III
It will be interesting to see where this goes. The original OP, and the original responses to it seemed cut and dried. Then more released memo's and You-Tube videos on the subject, fueled the flames (PUN INTENDED). It will be interesting in 6 months to a year, to see if my post #13 and your post #16, have Chrystal Ball attributes
. Time of course will tell, and I'm sure more results will happen as other's, as you mentioned, pile-on! I thought it even made a news broadcast because of the wildfire aspects/connection of it (season).If it also comes to pass that official State Broadcasts/Info.... FAIL, during a emergency, As it was mentioned in a earlier post, I see Cal fire tabling this whole mess. They will hope it gets swept under the rug. Not many will want the light put on them.....think cockroaches....IMO
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Enthusiast III
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Coming from a background in public safety communications I would suggest the most likely they just want to limit the number of people that are walking in and out of the repeater sites. You never know what someone will do once there in those buildings at all hours of the day and night. The buildings are to house Cal-Fire equipment. If someone else is going to put equipment in there then they are entitled to have a formal agreement in writing. There are many machines in public buildings that ended up there under "Gentlemen's agreements". We had such a machine at our site and the guy started pilfering stuff from our system and was causing us harmful interference. We eventually had to kick him out. When you are responsible for public safety comms and are answerable for the public money being spent you can't just allow anyone in there.
