Overlanding with "stock" 4X4

[Dilldog]

I had NO idea that an older Ford Escape checked off that many boxes...

Naturally there are limitations, but I have been very surprised by what the Escape has crawled through. I would try more but I cringe at the thought of dragging the belly, fuel tank, fuel lines, transmission and engine are all completely unprotected. But as far as power, traction and articulation go it's been very surprising seeing it really work.

 

[rgallant]

Ok. Sensible. So a locker isnt going to add any more stress to your gearing or drivetrain, whereas blindly upsizing wheels and tires will. And the lockers can obviously help more with actual traction than just a bigger tire of the same type.

So, presumably the larger tires and lift have some other benefit other than looks, such as clearance and approach/ depart angles. The question is when will the larger tires over stress the gearing vs what type of clearance can be achieved

That is always tough how big a tire, but consider what you are doing and what kind of terrain you typically encounter. So in general I avoid deep mud, and there is little sand here in the PNW and BC in general.

My tire needs are:
wet rock and gravel
slimy mud a couple of inches deep
snow - powdered, packed road surfaces, wet slimy slushy stuff and everything mentioned sitting on ice
Dry rock and gravel and the occasional deep mud

My Disco has a 1.5 inch lift
245/75/16 Cooper St Maxx tires I had these and they work well next will be the 70's I gain about an inch
Center locking diff but open front and rear

In the last 2.5 years and many miles I have needed to be winched twice and tugged once, a wet rocky creek - lockers would have solved. High centered on snow and ice 2 times a tug got me out of once and winching the other.

If you can find a good enthusiast forum for your truck you should be able to get good advice on tires and lift.

 

[Captstout]

This article gets it right, IMO, and bears repeating: ten_commandments_of_overland_vehicle_modifications

This is a great article.

 

[Billiebob]

tires by far. you use them every single day, a locker you don't.

yes I do lol

This a daily, lockers mean I never spin a tire, uphill or down. Just idle. Not a real challenge but everyone else digs divots
Oh yeah, and this is with those silly skinny tires you laugh at lol.
Time to act like adults, we do different things.

 

[Billiebob]

FIRST mod is everyone does? lockers? nope, 90% of guys buy tires,

ego, peer pressure, wanting into the big boy club, thank you for that acknowledgment lol... a visible mod

 

[Billiebob]

"So a locker isnt going to add any more stress to your gearing or drivetrain"

if your off road it can add waay more stress on your diff, axleshafts and driveshafts. most broken axles don't necessarily break with just bigger tires. usually it's a combo of bigger tires and lockers, in use, with maybe some heavier than normal throttle thrown in as well, is when most axles fail.
and who "blindly" upsizes their tires? interweb wheelers?

Exactly, a spinning tire, which gets you stranded relieves stress. All locked up definitely adds stress to one tire, joint. Stupidity can break anything. Lockers used correctly can tread lightly, reduce stress on the ground and keep you moving.

Bigger tires require regearing. Deep gearing regardless of all else reduces stress when kept in balance. The question is do bigger tires reduce the likelyhood of getting stuck? I say NO, bigger tires increase flotation and in many cases transform loose gravel into marbles. It all comes down to balance. In the dunes, sand, beaches, flotation is a massive asset. On a forestry road not so much. Look at a logging truck vs an oilfield float and decide where you are overlanding.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

first, i never advocated for lifts and tires over lockers. i merely pointed out that he don't need to call every one egotistical for running bigger tires.
but since your asking, tires by far. you use them every single day, a locker you don't. when someone buys a new rig, what do you think the FIRST mod is everyone does? lockers? nope, 90% of guys buy tires...

...why do i run 38's on my truck? because my wheelbase is 14' long, as long as a 2 dr jk.

...and i do have big tires and lockers in my K30, ya, the lockers are nice....if you use them, bigger tires made my truck far better off road though. their the meat and potatoes, the lockers are icing on top



well thundabeagle, i don't spend a lot of time online ( i don't even own a smart phone) especially debating some guy's opinion about "ego".
as it was 38C here today, 40C wit the humidity (approx 104F) i spent my day in the bush with my dawgs cooling off- much more enjoyable than listening to some guys "opinion"
View attachment 167226View attachment 167227

Hi Rumble

Thanks for the insight. I definitely appreciate it and see your point.

Also, gorgeous scenery there! That temp seems very hot, wherever you are. Beautiful pup!

 

[ThundahBeagle]

"So a locker isnt going to add any more stress to your gearing or drivetrain"

if your off road it can add waay more stress on your diff, axleshafts and driveshafts. most broken axles don't necessarily break with just bigger tires. usually it's a combo of bigger tires and lockers, in use, with maybe some heavier than normal throttle thrown in as well, is when most axles fail.
and who "blindly" upsizes their tires? interweb wheelers?

More to consider, I see

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Exactly, a spinning tire, which gets you stranded relieves stress. All locked up definitely adds stress to one tire, joint. Stupidity can break anything. Lockers used correctly can tread lightly, reduce stress on the ground and keep you moving.

Bigger tires require regearing. Deep gearing regardless of all else reduces stress when kept in balance. The question is do bigger tires reduce the likelyhood of getting stuck? I say NO, bigger tires increase flotation and in many cases transform loose gravel into marbles. It all comes down to balance. In the dunes, sand, beaches, flotation is a massive asset. On a forestry road not so much. Look at a logging truck vs an oilfield float and decide where you are overlanding.

This is a very good point, too. I used to log with my brother and father up in the Adirondacks. We drove a '78 Ford pickup, 2wd, 8 foot bed with little 15 inch rims if they were even that big. Never really got stuck on those old logging trails

 

[ThundahBeagle]

you have got to be kidding, right?
i have bigger hills in my back yard. i would not even need to put my crewcab in 4by for that....your definition of "off road exploring" and mine are obviously vastly different. you like crusin the beach 500 ft from civilization...i go out hundreds of miles where you only have yourself and your rig to rely on.

"Time to act like adults, we do different things"

yes we are, and you can start by quit disparaging big tire rigs.

Hey Dan, mind if I ask what you do for a living? Sounds like it's just you and your truck a lot of the time

 

[Smileyshaun]

Tire size is highly subjective to vehicle size . A new zr2 Colorado has 265/65r17 and looks mean and tough with them on
My 06 crew cab short bed GMC Sierra has 265/70r17s it’s a bigger tire but under my rig looks tiny and that is extra strange because it’s only 1” wider and 15” longer . Run a smaller tire untill you learn how to wheel and pick lines then your tire size can grow with your ability.
Also going up in tire size and it’s affect on the rig depends a lot on the rig and how much hp and where it’s torque comes in and also the tire weight plays a huge roll , there’s a big difference in a light AT tire on aluminum rims and let’s say swampers on bead locks .

Take what you have and just get outside and do some exploring , be it FS roads , huge boulders , miles of sand or 5’ of snow just get out the door and quit worrying so much about what other people are doing .

 

[ThundahBeagle]

"So a locker isnt going to add any more stress to your gearing or drivetrain"

...most broken axles don't necessarily break with just bigger tires. usually it's a combo of bigger tires and lockers, in use...

We have a vote that larger wheels and tires can break axles, here you have written that it is most often in conjunction with big wheels and lockers...

So, this begs the next question...how often have you seen broken axles where the wheels and tires were stock but the only mods were added lockers?

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Tire size is highly subjective to vehicle size . A new zr2 Colorado has 265/65r17 and looks mean and tough with them on
My 06 crew cab short bed GMC Sierra has 265/70r17s it’s a bigger tire but under my rig looks tiny and that is extra strange because it’s only 1” wider and 15” longer . Run a smaller tire untill you learn how to wheel and pick lines then your tire size can grow with your ability.
Also going up in tire size and it’s affect on the rig depends a lot on the rig and how much hp and where it’s torque comes in and also the tire weight plays a huge roll , there’s a big difference in a light AT tire on aluminum rims and let’s say swampers on bead locks .

Take what you have and just get outside and do some exploring , be it FS roads , huge boulders , miles of sand or 5’ of snow just get out the door and quit worrying so much about what other people are doing .

Appreciate the input, Smiley.

Just, I caught wind of the arguement and wanted to see what two self-professed experts had to say about what would be a better mod if I only chose to do one over the other.

I'll change out the highway tires the previous owner put on this Z71 for some light AT's and go from there. My first truck I bought was in the 1990's. Had some Goodyear Wrangler TD's on it back then. My two 1990's big Blazers had Michelins and were also pretty good. I dont plan on doing anything too technical. We get a good amount of foul weather in New England. So my primary concern is clearance of a couple feet of snow, snow and ice traction, negotiating roads during hurricanes, then down to fire trails and two tracks, probably in that order. I wont be crawling boulders.

 

[rgallant]

@ThundahBeagle you notice that @rumbledawg has a theme with people breaking stuff - too much skinny pedal. I see it all the time 1st thing people do is punch the gas, that is the correct response maybe 1 time in 10. The idea is gentle throttle increase, to maybe 40% if you do not start moving then more in is not likely to help.

Technique really helps

 

[Boostpowered]

We can put all the who has the best stuff and what tire does what and who's the best at it to rest very easily. Let's organize an event to see who knows what and how well.

Disney oklahoma September 13th

Put you money or muddy where you mouth is

 

[ThundahBeagle]

We can put all the who has the best stuff and what tire does what and who's the best at it to rest very easily. Let's organize an event to see who knows what and how well.

Disney oklahoma September 13th

Put you money or muddy where you mouth is

Ok. But nobody gets to drive their own rig! Prizes for "winners". Thatll give people incentive to do well even in a rig they dont like

 

[ThundahBeagle]

although me and my family are extremely private, i do have a close cadre of guys at work and my nephew that i cruise the bush with every now and then. and we have quite a diverse group of vehicles.
my '85 1 ton crewcab and a '90 K1500 stepper with a 2" lift and 33's, a '78 scout with a 4" lift and 35's, an '02 dodge 2500 cummins with a 6" lift and 35's, a '97 tracker with a homemade 4" lift and 33's, a '07 gm 2500 with a 6" lift and 35's, a '016 wrangler sport with a 3" lift and 33's (soon to be 35's) and my nephews '011 rubicon that is built, 4"lift with 35's, fr and rr lockers, sway bar disconnect, fox two point o's, dual exhaust, supertuner programmer, led light bars, aftrmarket fenders, a snork and a ten thousand lb winch. also have a buddy who wheels a '017 tacoma, stock height with a RTT, but upsized tires. he's the only one of the group with sliders, and he needs them, he's constantly dragging them. a lift is in his future.
me? i work in construction mon-fri 5am till 5pm, come weekends or time off and you won't find me, i'll be in the bush...living in the mountains also gives me a corncopia of every kind of off roading right outside my door.

Sounds like a lot of experience with lifts and a great time.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Even though they may disagree with each other, I'm going to go ahead and learn a little bit from @Billiebob , @rgallant , and @rumbledawg and others. The information from experienced people here is valuable, even if sometimes contradictory

Thanks guys.

I'm gonna stay as stock as possible and take it easy

 

[Boostpowered]

Ok. But nobody gets to drive their own rig! Prizes for "winners". Thatll give people incentive to do well even in a rig they dont like

I'm dead serious, I don't care how we work it out but this idea that cv shafts aren't a consumable product needs to stop. that idea alone tells me most everything I need to know.

 

[rgallant]

@rumbledawg I was on the other end of that in a basically stock R50 Pathfinder - in my case it was almost always how did you get here and oddly almost always from Jeep guys. note that all jeep guys are that ways just some seem to think only jeeps can 4x4