NPS in Utah will start citing AWD vehicles on 4WD roads…better know difference

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MidOH

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Lockers aren't common on modern day consumer grade junkers. Unless you add an offroad package.

Semis have used lockers regularly for ages. Firetrucks. F550 dump trucks. Used to be an option on bunch of old Fords.

Some even have deployable tire chains. Just flip a switch on the dash.

Lockers are priceless. If you could paint them red, and mount them on a roof rack, every overlander would have them.
 

Lazynorse

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The chances of some low IQ government bureaucrat indiscriminately applying this rule while simultaneously not understanding the difference is not less than 115%

Of all the vehicles on the road in 2024 described as "4 wheel drive" only a tiny fraction of them are actually "4 wheel drive".

More government is never, ever the answer and those who enthusiastically embrace it are among the dumbest organisms on the planet.
NPS means National Park Service, so you’re disparaging Park Rangers in National Parks who know what they’re doing. I’m sure you appreciate the special distinction of these special, high use public areas. They do require a high degree if management. These aren’t lonely BLM trails. You can’t have stuck Crosstreks in high use, highly managed National Parks. Folks can take their cheesy blackout flag draped ‘don’t tread on me’ attitude and get stuck somewhere outside the boundaries of Canyonlands, if that’ll satisfy their childish disdain for ‘rulz.’
 

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NPS means National Park Service, so you’re disparaging Park Rangers in National Parks who know what they’re doing. I’m sure you appreciate the special distinction of these special, high use public areas. They do require a high degree if management. These aren’t lonely BLM trails. You can’t have stuck Crosstreks in high use, highly managed National Parks. Folks can take their cheesy blackout flag draped ‘don’t tread on me’ attitude and get stuck somewhere outside the boundaries of Canyonlands, if that’ll satisfy their childish disdain for ‘rulz.’
AND WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!

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Lazynorse

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^^ show me the words of mine that inspired your meme shopping. When you slap down childish, sweeping disparaging statements as I had done, that is not done from taking offense. I am not offended, I assure. Rather, I’m educating where its obviously needed.
 

grubworm

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^^ show me the words of mine that inspired your meme shopping. When you slap down childish, sweeping disparaging statements as I had done, that is not done from taking offense. I am not offended, I assure. Rather, I’m educating where its obviously needed.
ok...didnt expect to go this far, but if i post something, i will certainly explain my reason for it

NPS means National Park Service, so you’re disparaging Park Rangers in National Parks who know what they’re doing.
you are accusing a member on here of disparaging park rangers when nothing in his post even mentions park rangers. he specifically referred to a "government bureaucrat" indiscriminately applying this as a rule. so, by doing that, you appear to virtue signal by trying to rally troops and shame the poster by claiming he is against park rangers when he clearly is not. if you have to add all that to his post just to try and make him look unreasonable or unfavorable, then what are you really doing? he never mentioned park rangers, so you are essentially upset over something that you added in...that really ruins any chance of rest of your post being taken seriously and just makes what you say look like a personal attack, rather than an honest discussion.
I’m sure you appreciate the special distinction of these special, high use public areas.
well...why not further assume what he appreciates since most of your post is also assumptions.

They do require a high degree if management. These aren’t lonely BLM trails.
both are government owned land and both are subject to closure and high regulation

You can’t have stuck Crosstreks in high use, highly managed National Parks.
now YOU are disparaging Crosstreks, which must mean that you are against all their owners as well as the manufacturers, etc . i am being petty here, but that is how you twist things earlier

Folks can take their cheesy blackout flag draped ‘don’t tread on me’ attitude and get stuck somewhere outside the boundaries of Canyonlands, if that’ll satisfy their childish disdain for ‘rulz.’
not sure what "folks" you are lumping into this discussion now. definitely dont get what cheesy blackout flag you are referring to and what people are you referring to that need to "satisify their childish disdain for rulz"? now you are shaking your fist at another imaginary group that you conjured up out of thin air.

i read the post you are referring to and the member who posted it, bgenlvtex (bruce), has a long history of good posts that are insightful and generally very accurate. i appreciate people posting like that because it gives me the occasion to read other peoples thoughts and ideas and then reflect on something outside of my own head. thats how we grow intellectually. i dont like seeing that being attacked like it was because that will discourage good people from posting in the future.
you are a member on here, so i will gladly give you the assumption of being a good dude that means well but just had an off post. this is a public forum...so those people that call out other people can and will get called out themselves. fair is fair.

i'm all for righteous indignation...trust me, but we really need to direct that at the people who actually deserve it. lets try and stick together...we, as a society, are already way too divided...
 
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Sparksalot

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^^ show me the words of mine that inspired your meme shopping. When you slap down childish, sweeping disparaging statements as I had done, that is not done from taking offense. I am not offended, I assure. Rather, I’m educating where its obviously needed.
YOU might think you're educating.

You're just insulting.
 

LostWoods

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NPS means National Park Service, so you’re disparaging Park Rangers in National Parks who know what they’re doing. I’m sure you appreciate the special distinction of these special, high use public areas. They do require a high degree if management. These aren’t lonely BLM trails. You can’t have stuck Crosstreks in high use, highly managed National Parks. Folks can take their cheesy blackout flag draped ‘don’t tread on me’ attitude and get stuck somewhere outside the boundaries of Canyonlands, if that’ll satisfy their childish disdain for ‘rulz.’
If you think there aren't NPS Rangers who would love nothing more than an excuse to kill off off-road traffic in national parks, I've got a bridge to sell you. Most of them are the most chill people you will ever meet but as with any group, there will be those overzealous ones who will take an inch of power and stretch it a mile.

I fully believe that rules need to be made in manner to preserve trails, but rules need to be very specific and I think the current focus on "high clearance" instead of proper 4wd is the wrong direction when those enforcing the rules may not be familiar with the differences between AWD, part-time 4wd, and full-time 4wd. Defining ground clearance requirements the same for a unibody and body-on-frame is idiotic.
 

bgenlvtex

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NPS means National Park Service, so you’re disparaging Park Rangers in National Parks who know what they’re doing. I’m sure you appreciate the special distinction of these special, high use public areas. They do require a high degree if management. These aren’t lonely BLM trails. You can’t have stuck Crosstreks in high use, highly managed National Parks. Folks can take their cheesy blackout flag draped ‘don’t tread on me’ attitude and get stuck somewhere outside the boundaries of Canyonlands, if that’ll satisfy their childish disdain for ‘rulz.’
The last group of people I trust to apply rules or regulations with wisdom commensurate to their given authority and free of personal bias is a bureaucrat in the employ of the federal Government.

You of course are free to have a different opinion than I.
 

Lazynorse

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YOU might think you're educating.

You're just insulting.
Lets revisit the post I responded to initially, and you tell me if you don't see broad uninformed presumptions and accompanying disparaging language. I'm pushing back on that, and I'm critiquing the attitude that these interventions are made by and supported by 'low IQ' people. There's no evidence of that. That's a childish insult favored by an orange buffoon celeb.

The chances of some low IQ government bureaucrat indiscriminately applying this rule while simultaneously not understanding the difference is not less than 115%

Of all the vehicles on the road in 2024 described as "4 wheel drive" only a tiny fraction of them are actually "4 wheel drive".

More government is never, ever the answer and those who enthusiastically embrace it are among the dumbest organisms on the planet.


From backcountry backpacking to off road use, there's plenty to regulate these days as more folks saturate and abuse these protected places. I'm ok with focusing regulatory remedy to an identified problem. If you don't like, go advocate for yourself. Doing so with 'low IQ' dispersions on Overland Bound does not move the needle, but we can all waste our breath wherever we'd like. I'm content with the Park enforcement, so I'm not looking to move that needle. I'm good.