NPS in Utah will start citing AWD vehicles on 4WD roads…better know difference

[MidOH]

Lockers aren't common on modern day consumer grade junkers. Unless you add an offroad package.

Semis have used lockers regularly for ages. Firetrucks. F550 dump trucks. Used to be an option on bunch of old Fords.

Some even have deployable tire chains. Just flip a switch on the dash.

Lockers are priceless. If you could paint them red, and mount them on a roof rack, every overlander would have them.

 

[Lazynorse]

The chances of some low IQ government bureaucrat indiscriminately applying this rule while simultaneously not understanding the difference is not less than 115%

Of all the vehicles on the road in 2024 described as "4 wheel drive" only a tiny fraction of them are actually "4 wheel drive".

More government is never, ever the answer and those who enthusiastically embrace it are among the dumbest organisms on the planet.

NPS means National Park Service, so you’re disparaging Park Rangers in National Parks who know what they’re doing. I’m sure you appreciate the special distinction of these special, high use public areas. They do require a high degree if management. These aren’t lonely BLM trails. You can’t have stuck Crosstreks in high use, highly managed National Parks. Folks can take their cheesy blackout flag draped ‘don’t tread on me’ attitude and get stuck somewhere outside the boundaries of Canyonlands, if that’ll satisfy their childish disdain for ‘rulz.’

 

[Sparksalot]

And this thread has jumped the shark.

 

[grubworm]

NPS means National Park Service, so you’re disparaging Park Rangers in National Parks who know what they’re doing. I’m sure you appreciate the special distinction of these special, high use public areas. They do require a high degree if management. These aren’t lonely BLM trails. You can’t have stuck Crosstreks in high use, highly managed National Parks. Folks can take their cheesy blackout flag draped ‘don’t tread on me’ attitude and get stuck somewhere outside the boundaries of Canyonlands, if that’ll satisfy their childish disdain for ‘rulz.’

AND WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!

 

[Lazynorse]

^^ show me the words of mine that inspired your meme shopping. When you slap down childish, sweeping disparaging statements as I had done, that is not done from taking offense. I am not offended, I assure. Rather, I’m educating where its obviously needed.

 

[Sparksalot]

^^ show me the words of mine that inspired your meme shopping. When you slap down childish, sweeping disparaging statements as I had done, that is not done from taking offense. I am not offended, I assure. Rather, I’m educating where its obviously needed.

YOU might think you're educating.

You're just insulting.

 

[LostWoods]

NPS means National Park Service, so you’re disparaging Park Rangers in National Parks who know what they’re doing. I’m sure you appreciate the special distinction of these special, high use public areas. They do require a high degree if management. These aren’t lonely BLM trails. You can’t have stuck Crosstreks in high use, highly managed National Parks. Folks can take their cheesy blackout flag draped ‘don’t tread on me’ attitude and get stuck somewhere outside the boundaries of Canyonlands, if that’ll satisfy their childish disdain for ‘rulz.’

If you think there aren't NPS Rangers who would love nothing more than an excuse to kill off off-road traffic in national parks, I've got a bridge to sell you. Most of them are the most chill people you will ever meet but as with any group, there will be those overzealous ones who will take an inch of power and stretch it a mile.

I fully believe that rules need to be made in manner to preserve trails, but rules need to be very specific and I think the current focus on "high clearance" instead of proper 4wd is the wrong direction when those enforcing the rules may not be familiar with the differences between AWD, part-time 4wd, and full-time 4wd. Defining ground clearance requirements the same for a unibody and body-on-frame is idiotic.

 

[bgenlvtex]

NPS means National Park Service, so you’re disparaging Park Rangers in National Parks who know what they’re doing. I’m sure you appreciate the special distinction of these special, high use public areas. They do require a high degree if management. These aren’t lonely BLM trails. You can’t have stuck Crosstreks in high use, highly managed National Parks. Folks can take their cheesy blackout flag draped ‘don’t tread on me’ attitude and get stuck somewhere outside the boundaries of Canyonlands, if that’ll satisfy their childish disdain for ‘rulz.’

The last group of people I trust to apply rules or regulations with wisdom commensurate to their given authority and free of personal bias is a bureaucrat in the employ of the federal Government.

You of course are free to have a different opinion than I.

 

[Lazynorse]

YOU might think you're educating.

You're just insulting.

Lets revisit the post I responded to initially, and you tell me if you don't see broad uninformed presumptions and accompanying disparaging language. I'm pushing back on that, and I'm critiquing the attitude that these interventions are made by and supported by 'low IQ' people. There's no evidence of that. That's a childish insult favored by an orange buffoon celeb.

The chances of some low IQ government bureaucrat indiscriminately applying this rule while simultaneously not understanding the difference is not less than 115%

Of all the vehicles on the road in 2024 described as "4 wheel drive" only a tiny fraction of them are actually "4 wheel drive".

More government is never, ever the answer and those who enthusiastically embrace it are among the dumbest organisms on the planet.

From backcountry backpacking to off road use, there's plenty to regulate these days as more folks saturate and abuse these protected places. I'm ok with focusing regulatory remedy to an identified problem. If you don't like, go advocate for yourself. Doing so with 'low IQ' dispersions on Overland Bound does not move the needle, but we can all waste our breath wherever we'd like. I'm content with the Park enforcement, so I'm not looking to move that needle. I'm good.

 

[MidOH]

I'll respect the nps when they go after the trouble makers, and relax on the silly rules.

Otherwise, "disparage" is a new merit badge.

 

[dstock]

I see both sides of the issue, but I have to admit when I saw the article on Expedition Portal my first thought was somebody is going to sue.

 

[Kent R]

Here is the regulation for Canyonlands;
I have included the wording that mentions AWD vehicles and a link to the Superintendents Compendium.
Each NP has a Superintendents Compendium, in the case of Death Valley NP it is very helpful to make sure you dont camp in a closed area.

36 CFR 1.5 Closures and Public Use Limits
Roads Closures and Restrictions
The following roads and parking areas are closed to all vehicle traffic or restricted as noted except for those on official government business:

The Needles District

• Dirt road leading from paved road to water well.
• Road located approximately 100 yards east of maintenance area leading to generator building.
• Dirt road leading south from loop road, located approximately 200 yards west of the ranger station.
• Dirt road off Salt Creek access road approximately 200 yards from Wooden Shoe Creek.
• Road to residence area.
• High clearance four-wheel drive is required on motor vehicles travelling on the following roads: Elephant Hill, Salt Creek, Horse Canyon, Lavender Canyon, Lockhart Canyon, and Colorado Overlook Road.

Island in the Sky District

• Road to maintenance and residence area
• Dirt road near Grand View Point leading from paved road to radio repeater shed.
• Dirt road near Island in the Sky Campground leading to a maintenance storage/supply area.
• Dirt road adjacent to Shafer day-use parking area leading to a maintenance storage/supply area.
• The Shafer day-use parking area is closed from one-half hour after sunset until one-half hour before sunrise.
• High clearance four-wheel drive is required on motor vehicles travelling on the following roads: White Rim Road.

The Maze District

• High clearance four-wheel drive is required on motor vehicles, travelling on the following roads:
  1. From the North Point Trailhead to Panorama Point and Cleopatra's Chair;
  2. From the start of the Flint Trail and beyond to the Golden Stairs, Maze Overlook and to Waterhole Flat;
  3. From Waterhole Flat to Teapot Rock on into The Land of Standing Rocks and the Doll House.

All park roads and lands are subject to temporary closures as indicated by signs or other means of notification during periods of adverse weather, natural disaster, emergency, or implementation of management responsibilities.

Invited guests of employees residing in government housing may access administrative roadways in housing areas.

Definitions:

High Clearance Four-Wheel-Drive (4WD) Vehicles
A Jeep, sport utility vehicle (SUV), or truck type with at least 15-inch tire rims and at least eight inches of clearance from the lowest point of the frame, body, suspension, or differential to the ground. Four wheel drive vehicles have a driveshaft that can directly power each wheel at the same time and a transfer case that can shift between powering two wheel or four wheels in low or high gear. All wheel drive (AWD) vehicles do not meet this definition.

Superintendent's Compendium - Canyonlands National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

A document that lists the special designations, closures, permit requirements, public use limits, and other restrictions made at the superintendent's discretion.

www.nps.gov

@Waltzing Matilda JT you might have some insight into what the Compendium is.