Jeep Gladiator Top Dog overland concept

[LostWoods]

If it proves to be reliable, the manual in the Bronco will be the best manual put into a light truck in the past 40 years. I prefer manuals though have an auto currently but I would gladly pass on the larger engine just to get my hand on that stick.

• 6.588:1 crawl gear gets rid of the Jeep problem where a 4:1 transfer case requires going in and out of 4L on trail rides but the 2.73 is too tall for the rocks
• Reverse gear is 5.656:1 which means you can actually back a trailer up a hill without constantly slipping clutch
• 6th gear is a proper OD gear at .646:1 which means better cruising RPMs compared to Toyota and Jeep with similar axle gearing

I fully acknowledge that buying an MT is preference at this point and an AT is better for everything but engine braking but this stick is bringing the A game.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

Wont be long and that will be true of all models

No biggy. back in the day people who bought performance cars bought manual as they were almost always quicker and faster than their automatic versions. Not so anymore. You can't even buy a fully manual ferrari anymore. And good riddance too. pop in d when you want to cruise. and when you want to play flip into manual shift. Had this in my brothers challenger, it was awesome. manual trans are brutal and clunky now.

 

[Deleted member 59857]

The reason I compared to Ram is because you brought up the comparison, not me.

I agree the fullsize trucks are massive. I actually wish there was a T100 V8, or 1st gen Tundra size market out there
Midsize trucks now are about the same as fullsize of old, I agree.

Not eveyone wants a full size truck. mid size trucks of today are almost the size of full size of the late 90s. trucks today are behemoths. Our f150 crew 6ft box is like driving the titanic around in a parking lot.

 

[LostWoods]

The reason I compared to Ram is because you brought up the comparison, not me.

I agree the fullsize trucks are massive. I actually wish there was a T100 V8, or 1st gen Tundra size market out there
Midsize trucks now are about the same as fullsize of old, I agree.

Size-wise, the first gen Tundra is functionally identical to the current Tacoma going SR5 to SR5 Access Cab 6' box. Clearly no V8 but if size is the concern, the T100 and first gen Tundra were mid-size before it was cool.

If you look at the actual measurements, full size trucks have been the same width and general lengths for over 60 years... it's all design tricks to make them look bigger and now common larger cabs that make the average truck larger. If you compare one to one, they've barely changed other than a little height.

 

[Deleted member 59857]

Not even debatable.
Many articles written on the growing size of domestic fullsize trucks.
They are larger, and dimensional "inch here and there" makes a massive difference.
This happened in the Obama administration when stricter fuel regs went into place. They were size based targets.
So, fullsize trucks got bigger, not smaller, to avoid those regs.

The fact is, compared to old pickups, all new fullsize are 1,100lbs heavier than a couple decades ago. They are much larger.
The rise of the crew cab also accounts for this, as most used to be single and king cab.

Anyone that thinks a 2020 Sierra or F150 is the same size as one from the 1990s or 2000s ....

1st gen Tundra has a more roomy, comfortable cab and deeper bed and the V8. Besides style, I think it's a better truck than the Tacoma.
It's comparable, which shows how big trucks have gotten, but yes the T100 and early Tundra were ahead of their time.

A detour to the discussion, but no denying the growth. I don't care, except wishing there was an intermediate and compact truck market to fill in the gaps.
A Gladiator extra-cab (like their original concept) would be a nice pickup size, I think. Basically a JKU wheelbase w/ bed.

Size-wise, the first gen Tundra is functionally identical to the current Tacoma going SR5 to SR5 Access Cab 6' box. Clearly no V8 but if size is the concern, the T100 and first gen Tundra were mid-size before it was cool.

If you look at the actual measurements, full size trucks have been the same width and general lengths for over 60 years... it's all design tricks to make them look bigger and now common larger cabs that make the average truck larger. If you compare one to one, they've barely changed other than a little height.

 

[Anak]

No biggy. back in the day people who bought performance cars bought manual as they were almost always quicker and faster than their automatic versions. Not so anymore. You can't even buy a fully manual ferrari anymore. And good riddance too. pop in d when you want to cruise. and when you want to play flip into manual shift. Had this in my brothers challenger, it was awesome. manual trans are brutal and clunky now.

So, can you push start those automatics?

That makes a big difference when your 18 month old Optima internally shorts while you are miles from pavement on the trail. And no, it could not be jump started. That was tried. We did manage to get it running with a snatch strap. An automatic would have required a two vehicle tow arrangement to get off that particular mountain.

 

[LostWoods]

Not even debatable.
Many articles written on the growing size of domestic fullsize trucks.
They are larger, and dimensional "inch here and there" makes a massive difference.
This happened in the Obama administration when stricter fuel regs went into place. They were size based targets.
So, fullsize trucks got bigger, not smaller, to avoid those regs.

The fact is, compared to old pickups, all new fullsize are 1,100lbs heavier than a couple decades ago. They are much larger.
The rise of the crew cab also accounts for this, as most used to be single and king cab.

Anyone that thinks a 2020 Sierra or F150 is the same size as one from the 1990s or 2000s ....

1st gen Tundra has a more roomy, comfortable cab and deeper bed and the V8. Besides style, I think it's a better truck than the Tacoma.
It's comparable, which shows how big trucks have gotten, but yes the T100 and early Tundra were ahead of their time.

A detour to the discussion, but no denying the growth. I don't care, except wishing there was an intermediate and compact truck market to fill in the gaps.
A Gladiator extra-cab (like their original concept) would be a nice pickup size, I think. Basically a JKU wheelbase w/ bed.

I think you're conflating a lot of things here but it's as you recognized, the standard is no longer the regular cab and even fleet has generally moved to an extended cab platform. The extended cab mid-size is a dying breed and even among full-size trucks, it's increasingly uncommon even on a platform where the rear seats are still very usable by adults. We see a lot more of these larger trucks with their wide mirrors, tall grilles, and generally bulky design so we think trucks are larger but it's all mind games the OEMs are playing expertly through design.

The first gen Tundra would not even score in modern safety tests. The current Tacoma is the same size but sacrifices more space to safety equipment and makes the sacrifice of legroom for more ground clearance and a center console. It has significantly more equipment onboard and thus, will weigh more. This is true for every car where even the Focus I used to autocross was 400lbs lighter than the last generation they built. Times change and those changes frequently lock part of the market out.

Dimensionally, it's damn near the same truck across the board for all brands with, as I said, some changes to increase cab size as they became a standard second family vehicle. Still, even going back 20 years to the round body F-150 that everyone thinks is a dwarf, the 2020 is only a half inch wider, 6 inches longer (and it's all in the cab) and 2 inches taller in the extended cab SB 4x4 config. That's damn near the same size and the current mid-size trucks are still 3-4 inches narrower just like the T100 and Tundra were before Toyota grew the second gen.