Is the term "overland" being misused/abused?

[MA_Trooper]

How do we do this? I don't want to call anyone out as I'm not like that but there is a well known and respected guy in the northeast that does a lot with Overlanding yet through his actions he has caused routes to be closed, brought a bunch of attention by state officials and even got in trouble to the point that what he does had to be adjusted to accompany the activity. Yet, I doubt any participant would want anything different.

I come from the field of soil and water conservation/regulation. I guess I am a treehugger with a big stick who tries to talk softly. I get the need to have fun and activly participate in a hobby. We all need something. That being said I also see the other side where fragile ecosystems, public ROWs and gravel roads are being beat to hell by guys who just want to get dirty trucks and play with thier gear.

This simply brings me to the point of practicing LNT and tread lightly something that I beleive OB is a supporter of. From what I can see the 4 wheeling types who call themselves overlanders do not support this principle.

I hear what you are saying (see actually), but I still fail to see how distinguishing between overlanding and mudding/wheeling/rock crawling fixes this issue. The landowners, easement holders, biologists/ecologists (of which I am one by training) don't care what anyone calls themselves. Its a vehicle that is destroying something. And if they let "overlanders" use land then any joker can just say "I'm overlanding" and they are smart enough to know that. The crux of the issue isnt the name of the person doing it it's that the person is doing it. The best we can do is continue to advocate Tread Lightly principles, hold educational meetups/seminars and continue to partner with groups who are working toward those same goals. When we encounter folks who are doing damage in ways that can and ultimately should be avoided we have conversations with them (in a civil manner) and try to educate the best we can. I'm not going to say that I am an overlander because I do x y z, frankly, that to me is nothing more than a pissing contest. But I will, however, hold those in the community responsible for their actions. And a lot of the time folks just don't know. A little education goes a long way.

 

[The Raven]

I hear what you are saying (see actually), but I still fail to see how distinguishing between overlanding and mudding/wheeling/rock crawling fixes this issue. The landowners, easement holders, biologists/ecologists (of which I am one by training) don't care what anyone calls themselves. Its a vehicle that is destroying something. And if they let "overlanders" use land then any joker can just say "I'm overlanding" and they are smart enough to know that. The crux of the issue isnt the name of the person doing it it's that the person is doing it. The best we can do is continue to advocate Tread Lightly principles, hold educational meetups/seminars and continue to partner with groups who are working toward those same goals. When we encounter folks who are doing damage in ways that can and ultimately should be avoided we have conversations with them (in a civil manner) and try to educate the best we can. I'm not going to say that I am an overlander because I do x y z, frankly, that to me is nothing more than a pissing contest. But I will, however, hold those in the community responsible for their actions. And a lot of the time folks just don't know. A little education goes a long way.

Fair enough Chris, I guess I'm holding out from my motorcycle days when bikers were proud to be bikers and motorcyclists were proud to be motorcyclists and both had their own rules to ride by. How do we move forward and justify this sort of activity that is really destroying habitat and against Tread Lightly? Not to highlight VOT but it is a big highly publicized event but there are others nationwide. Perhaps I'm splitting hairs, but it just seems there needs to be a discussion somewhere that makes this sort of thing not so cool. In any case, I'm not a regular to the lifestyle. I have a nice truck that I got after joining OB in the beginning and liked because it's on my medallion. Perhaps this has been going on and I'm just in the middle now. I guess I'll just go back to exploring and not worry about it. :)

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[Jeff Graham]

We call them "Mall Crawlers" where I'm from.
That being said, there are some (myself included) who do a bunch of prep work into their vehicles, but due to the busy pace of life, don't get to get on the dirt as much as they would like. When I'm driving around with my light bar, roof basket and RTT on my freshly washed truck, I'm sure that I look like a Mall Crawler.
I think that it's important to not put too much emphasis on titles. It doesn't matter what you call yourself or others, it matters what you do and what you say.
I enjoy OB because there are other people here who just like to go out and have fun in nature. It doesn't matter what you drive, where you go, or how you get there. What matters is that you are a good steward to the land and to your neighbors. #HippyTreeHugger, #BeExcellentToEachOther
[Rant Over]

In the Jeep community we have a play on the "Trail Rated" Mall Crawlers are "Mall Rated". I Always look under the rig, to see if the skid plates have seen any action. If they look as fresh as the rest of the vehicle, they are probably "Mall Rated".

Check out the Mall Rated videos on YouTube. Not judging, just find it funny.



https://www.jcroffroad.com/blog/the-birth-of-mall-rated/

 

[B_the_GXdude]

Does it really, ACTUALLY matter...? End of the day, the adventure is the goal. Whether it's home to the pillows or bed in the tent, vehicle based travel is what we do.

So after consideration, I have to say I change my previous sentiment of agreeing with you, to more of a "were all Overlanders in reality" kind of mind set...so, does it really MATTER if the adventure is the ultimate goal?

 

[Jeepney]

I do think that 'overlanding' as a terminology continues to change its definition now that it is getting more used here in the US. The traditional definition does not quite fit us but just like any word in the dictionary, it evolves.

What i do notice though is a lot of folks join 'overlanding' but focus more on modifying their rigs to look like the ultimate expo vehicle. Overland itself focuses on the lifestyle of going out there and exploring places, mostly off the beaten path. It is the lifestyle that demands us to gear our rigs based on our travel needs instead of the other way around. That is in contrast to us joining a trail ride so that we can see how that new 2" lift is going to work and how those 35's eat up the ledges.

The terminology may change to fit our landscape but modifying our vehicles and joining a group trail ride once a year does not equate overlanding, that is called a hobby. Yes i do think it is overly misused!

 

[Ron Clark]

You honestly think that a government official or land owner cares what the person causing damage calls themselves? Yep, just an us v them mentality. Have fun with that.

 

[Arizona Overland]

LOL...funny you should mention that. I have travelled in South America, Africa, and Central America as well as many of the farthest point s of Canada in places that most Canadians never see. Always on rentals and short term...but still out there. I also come from a world of two wheels...where your are IN the environment not protected by a cage with AC, locks, tons of nav/com gear and a pile of tools. I'm not saying it's the best or the worst...but instead of calling me out personally why don't you simply try and see what I'm saying.

I feel I was ripped off by a guy who said he was an overlander who was instead a 4 wheeler. Had I known he was going to cut up and modify my pristine Jeep LJ I would have gone with a different buyer. This is why I am tired of the term, and why I don't use it. I'm a full time traveller, nothing more.

Well dude. I guess you are the man then. A REAL by god overlander. The rest of us are just a spec of flyshit on your shoe.
And I would never have guessed in a million years you came from a world of "regulation" (that was sarcasm) , seeing as how YOU want to decide what is and isn't something. No, on the contrary it is quit evident.
And as for the guy that "cut up your pristine jeep" well, he paid his money, it is his to do with as he wishes. Don't see how YOU were ripped off. It isn't yours anymore. You got paid, right? Maybe his plan WAS to keep that jeep pristine. But maybe he changed his mind. Its his jeep, he can do with it as he wishes.
And as to the guy that gets the trails closed due to his actions, well you are the kind of person that is in the vast govt. bureaucracy that is closing down the trails. The person who decides they don't like what others are doing and want to dictate to others what to do, when to do it, and where to do it. You are the regulations guy that wants to regulate everything you don't personally like out of existence.
Now you want to regulate the forum and overlanding.
Jeez.
Im tired of people who want to force THEIR personal opinions, agendas, and regulations on me.
I guess Im not a real overlander, Im just a guy that wants to jump in his truck and get far far far away from people who want to control and regulate as possible.

 

[Nomad]

The word Overlanding covers all bases 4x4/4wd/outdoors/camping/touring/adventure/rock crawling/mud boggers/motorbikes/big trucks/SUV/AWD/2WD much like what the word Bushcraft is it covers survival/prepper/woodsman/knife maker/carver/forager/hunter/trapper so anything wrong with Overlanding of course not it is what it is it covers a broad range of what we do until their is a better word for what we do Overlanding is what it will be till then...
But is it elitist? (Special Member Forums: Private to OB Members) Absolutely you can see that on this site if you don't pay up or buy this item or that item you don't get full access to all the forums.
If you think that one is only a couple hours away from a gas station here in North America then you are invited to come on an Overlanding trip/adventure from Vancouver to Tuktoyaktuk

 

[Michael]

I guess ya'll know how I feel about it.

 

[chuckoverland]

i find usually that people who accuse others of trying to be or do something are just projecting their own faults onto others. Just sayin...

 

[stoney126]

Backwoods explorers, we do what overlanders do just with bigger tires

 

[The Raven]

I guess after reading all these posts, many disrespectful, some bordering on sarcastic and asshattery I guess I will simply take my vehicle and just travel. No point trying to change thoughts on the computer as too many think they are keyboard commandos, lack respect for our environment and feel they are entitled to drive thier vehicles wherever they want to go and the hell with the rest of us. You can have the fad term "overland" feel free to use/abuse it though we all know what you really are. It's a shame where this activity has gone and continues to go.

In any case life is too short to spend on internet pissing contests.....

 

[Billy "Poserlander" Badly]

I guess after reading all these posts, many disrespectful, some bordering on sarcastic and asshattery I guess I will simply take my vehicle and just travel. No point trying to change thoughts on the computer as too many think they are keyboard commandos, lack respect for our environment and feel they are entitled to drive thier vehicles wherever they want to go and the hell with the rest of us. You can have the fad term "overland" feel free to use/abuse it though we all know what you really are. It's a shame where this activity has gone and continues to go.

In any case life is too short to spend on internet pissing contests.....

Forget it @The Raven, it's Overland Town. I'm really not sure why some folks got so heated about this, it's weird. I feel like the point you were making was fine (I'll offer my interpretation, please feel free to correct): Being an overlander is or should be about respectful stewardship of the areas we all explore, so that we may all continue to explore these areas free from closures and burdensome regulations. Overlanding should not be confused with rippin' shit up, tearing new trails unnecessarily, littering, trespassing, etc... etc... activities that are often the hallmark of some other folks who drive vehicles that may be indistinguishable from an overlander's rig. And, perhaps if we allow the word to become too diluted or misapplied, the esprit de corps and pride that comes with the label, and thus the self-policing and responsibility inherent in membership of said group, will also fade (that's an ugly sentence, sorry, it's early). Or, to put it more succinctly, overlanding isn't about turning the whole world into your own personal OHV park, and it could be harmful to the "movement" if people think that it is. Am I anywhere near the target?

I'd like to think that the members of this site are a respectful bunch when it comes to our wild areas regardless of where, what, and how they drive. That seems pretty uncontroversial... Frankly, I think the label is somewhat irrelevant.

 

[The Raven]

Forget it @The Raven, it's Overland Town. I'm really not sure why some folks got so heated about this, it's weird. I feel like the point you were making was fine (I'll offer my interpretation, please feel free to correct): Being an overlander is or should be about respectful stewardship of the areas we all explore, so that we may all continue to explore these areas free from closures and burdensome regulations. Overlanding should not be confused with rippin' shit up, tearing new trails unnecessarily, littering, trespassing, etc... etc... activities that are often the hallmark of some other folks who drive vehicles that may be indistinguishable from an overlander's rig. And, perhaps if we allow the word to become too diluted or misapplied, the esprit de corps and pride that comes with the label, and thus the self-policing and responsibility inherent in membership of said group, will also fade (that's an ugly sentence, sorry, it's early). Or, to put it more succinctly, overlanding isn't about turning the whole world into your own personal OHV park, and it could be harmful to the "movement" if people think that it is. Am I anywhere near the target?

I'd like to think that the members of this site are a respectful bunch when it comes to our wild areas regardless of where, what, and how they drive. That seems pretty uncontroversial... Frankly, I think the label is somewhat irrelevant.

Yup....exactly, too many people caring less about the environment and more about thier ill-percieved "rights" to do what they want without recourse, then stamping the "overlander" badge on it giving the entire movement a black eye. That makes me not even want to use the moniker when I try to describe to others what I do.

Yeah, for the most part many are respectful but like any group there are those that are the opposite.

I see you are in PDX, right where I hope to potentially settle down at some point. Beautiful part of the country I hear.

 

[stoney126]

So you start a thread, and not so subtly express your feelings about those of us that in your mind have to big and to much of anything and paint said people with huge brush and lump us all together while you draw your line in the sand,you guys over here and we will be over here. Then continue to label and judge the other side of the line. You seem prejudiced towards anyone who doesn't fit your mold by your statement about not selling your vehicle because of what's going to happen to it. Then turn into being about the environment like the rest of us are out here to destroy it.

The whole original post is asking for confrontation as you are pitting sides against each other and arguing one of the core values of the site and group " It doesnt matter what you drive" is what has been embraced by the majority here and to say your wrong is going to meet with some confrontation.

The 4wheeler crowd And Ill go ahead and use 4wheeler as not to "waterdown" the term overlander does much as far as land clean up, land preservation and fights laws looking to shut it all down for everybody. And the majority are very much against ripping up the land not respecting the trails or road and fight against that type of behavior. There are Ohv parks for that sort of thing. But you cant police everybody and it will be done regardless of vehicle type or capability .

There is going to be clowns in every aspect of anything you do. Personally keep the Overlanding title, its just a word after all.


Anyway you and @BillyBadly gotta understand that you cant just put a finger in someones face tell em your whats wrong with "the movement" and not expect someone to go tell you to pound sand . We all get where your coming from but its been said many times , as soon as you start to label and group others into what is in your or others idea of overlanding or any other activity your going to get resistance .

long rant over, phew thats alot of typing

 

[Billy "Poserlander" Badly]

So you start a thread, and not so subtly express your feelings about those of us that in your mind have to big and to much of anything and paint said people with huge brush and lump us all together while you draw your line in the sand,you guys over here and we will be over here. Then continue to label and judge the other side of the line. You seem prejudiced towards anyone who doesn't fit your mold by your statement about not selling your vehicle because of what's going to happen to it. Then turn into being about the environment like the rest of us are out here to destroy it.

The whole original post is asking for confrontation as you are pitting sides against each other and arguing one of the core values of the site and group " It doesnt matter what you drive" is what has been embraced by the majority here and to say your wrong is going to meet with some confrontation.

The 4wheeler crowd And Ill go ahead and use 4wheeler as not to "waterdown" the term overlander does much as far as land clean up, land preservation and fights laws looking to shut it all down for everybody. And the majority are very much against ripping up the land not respecting the trails or road and fight against that type of behavior. There are Ohv parks for that sort of thing. But you cant police everybody and it will be done regardless of vehicle type or capability .

There is going to be clowns in every aspect of anything you do. Personally keep the Overlanding title, its just a word after all.


Anyway you and @BillyBadly gotta understand that you cant just put a finger in someones face tell em your whats wrong with "the movement" and not expect someone to go tell you to pound sand . We all get where your coming from but its been said many times , as soon as you start to label and group others into what is in your or others idea of overlanding or any other activity your going to get resistance .

long rant over, phew thats alot of typing

Hey, to be 100% clear, I was simply trying to encapsulate his point to make sure I understood it. If my previous posts were unintentionally vague: Actions speak louder than words. As long as you are safe, respectful and considerate of those who may come after you (I realize those are all open to interpretation, but let's just assume we mostly share a common definition, per Tread Lightly, etc...), I don't care what you drive, where/how often you drive it, nor do I care what you call yourself. Frankly, as long as you don't listen to Nickelback, we're cool (insert winking smiley face emoticon so you know it's a joke, but seriously don't listen to Nickelback).

 

[Jeepney]

Can we make it a sticky that if you listen to Nickelback, you are not an overlander?

 

[The Raven]

Um....Lady Gaga is alright I hope?

 

[stoney126]

Um....Lady Gaga is alright I hope?

Totally!

 

[MA_Trooper]

Please don't take T Swizzle away from me...