Is the term "overland" being misused/abused?

[The Raven]

Edit: OP Here, This thread has been up, down and all around. People have gotten pissed, been supportive, and even gotten all "childish troll whiny, taking my toyota, and going off into the desert and never talk to you again because I don't like you sort of people " which seemed kind of funny given the embracing nature the overland community tries to encourage. It got bad and personal at times I felt bad about myself and really came close to removing the OB badge and just never logging on here again.

It's opened up an interesting dialogue and showed the realities of being a part of this community. To be part of the OB mantra means that anybody who is on a vehicle and using it for travel is an "overlander" this includes Side by Side ATVs, motorcycles, bicycles and lifted jeeps. While I still have my feeling on the term and will use it as I view it in the real world, I'll bow out to the consensus while here to keep peace and be part of the community.

Finally, as this subject is so touchy and in some ways is causing friction in the community myself and others want it to just die. I had thought about just deleting the first post, but in interest to avoid a similar post in the future I'm going to leave it here in place. So....

Feel free to read and DON'T COMMENT as it just wakes it back up again and drops it at the top.

Enjoy the ride----Raven

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In the past 6 months I have had a few opportunities to see the term Overland being used to describe what us old timers call 4 wheeling. Just today I had an interesting discussion with a fella who is embarrased to even use the term due to the conatation that the term is holding to those outside the rhelm of overlanding. I sold my overland jeep to a chemist who wanted to overland...but in reality he wanted a jeep to put big tires on and go mudding but felt that was what overlanding was. No...it's not and had I known I would have found another buyer.

To use the loose term OB has... Any vehicle dependant travel is a bit of a stretch. A soccer mom running to Walmart is not an overlander, nor is a guy in a 4wd jeep rutting up dirt roads in the spring. While the spirit of inclusion is warming to the soul and a nice guy thing to do, the reality is that in doing so allows a watered down version of what overlanding as seen in Australia and Africa actually is; Fully vehicle dependant travel over long distance.

Recently I have gotten to the point where I have begun to refrain from using the term overlander even though I travel full time in a appropiatly equipped Landcruiser 80. There have been bad issues in VT, in ME and out west where people calling themselves overlanders have been irresponsible ripping up public ROWs, private roads and resulting in loss of land/trail use, not to mention bad stereotypes for the activity. We are on a bad course right now I just hope it improves in time.

For now I think that perhaps the term should be more carefully applied and strictly emphisizing the travel aspect of the vehicle dependant travel ideal and not so much the technical capability aspect that many groups like to focus on. The honest reality is that only 2% of vehicle dependant travel is technical, the rest is fluff.

To quote Peter at the VO "Lots of overlanders walk the walk and talk the talk, but few truly challenge their overlanding proficiency and equipment. Are you capable of conquering VOT?" Nope and it's not even necessary that overlanders really need to.

 

[slomatt]

The terms "overland" and "expedition" have definitely become very popular over the last several years. Instead of off-roading or car camping people are now overlanding, which sounds much more exciting and apparently requires cooler gear. Ultimately they are just words and people can use them however they want. That said, I personally think that both these terms should only be applied to longer trips (not a long weekend) where you are fully vehicle dependent, and unfortunately there just aren't many opportunities for those kinds of trips in the lower 48.

 

[flex]

The definition of Overland is, "over land rather than by sea." So going car camping, outing for the weekend, to the beach, and on any trip for an extended amount of time, is in by itself the definition, "over landing."


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[Winterpeg]

Similar thread.....
https://overlandbound.com/forums/threads/has-overlanding-become-trendy.5626/

 

[Scott Murray]

People mis-use words all the time, this will be no different.
Even if I drove from the Northern Territory of Australia down to Esperance in Western Australia I would not call it overlanding. This is a camping trip albeit through remote areas but still just a camping/4wding trip.

A rough map attached - we will be doing this camping/4wding trip hopefully in November.

I think regardless of the use the definition will always be 'over land instead of over sea' this is how it first came about with the early explorers especially in Australia where they had to go Overlanding to get to the centre of Australia and make a route through to the North.

 

[Jeff Graham]

If asked, before joining OB, I would have defined Overlanding as long distance travel, often over ruff terrain. Now that I'm part of the OB community, I have adopted the more inclusiveness of the Forums definition. I love that we don't judge on vehicle types, and what constitutes an Overlanding adventure. I hope to be active in the community. If I enspire someone to cross a few borders, during their Overlanding adventures, that would be great. But if our members are getting out, to enjoy nature, (doing so safely in their well equipped Overlanding rigs), that's whats important.

 

[Masheen365]

I do think that what most people call overlanding is more so traveling to 4x4. I also think there is too much emphasis put on the off road gear aspect, not every overland vehicle needs to have long travel suspension. It's easy to fall into getting "stuff". Concentrating more on gear than experience. I think it's the same way in the firearm industry too, folks get all the new stuff and never train. In this world, folks get all the suspension and tires because they think they'll be off road or rock climbing all the time, who knows. Isn't the point to go out and see things, share experiences with other like minded individuals, get out in nature. Sure you might have to take a two track or cross a stream to get there, but it's not just about tearing stuff up with 35 inch tires.

 

[Ron Clark]

It can only be overlanding if it is done with a 87 disco with 31" tires or smaller (any bigger and your just a dumb 4 wheeler). Your tires can never touch pavement (because then you are just a soccer mom). If you do have to cross pavement you must carry a bag of dirt to lay down in your path!

SNARK TRANSLATION = this is a sad pathetic thread from people who want to be "special".

Threads like this pop up on pretty much every forum group, and what it generally means is that there will soon be a split. Those that wish to be special and exclusive will peel off and only play with those that they approve of. Generally it lasts a very short time because, even in their small selective group, some will still what to be special and be viewed as superior to the rest.

Sad, just sad. Feel free to flame as it will only act to further my point.

 

[The Raven]

No flame Ron, even if you are trolling for one. The point of this thread was to simply point out the obvious. I have a great example of what's coming;

In maine, a couple decades ago, dirtbikes were the big thing. They were fast, noisy, and went places they were not welcome. In some cases they started fires as the fast and loud aspect was due to the removed spark arrestors. Eventually bikes got so restricted that they fell out of favor to ATVs which were quieter and more easily regulated.

Fast forward to today; Bikes have come a long way with BMW r1200gs, KTM990adv and so on. They are no longer the loud trail destroying things they were back then. Unfortunatly the peeons in the state and logging companies are now in charge and all too happy to continue restricting and even adding more restrictions to bikes (dual registration now). NMW even prohibits advbikes. 1/3 of the states prime riding is off limits.

So those who want to continue calling and accepting those who do nothing but drive thier landrover/jeep over and further destroy unmaintained ROWs in VT, ME and elsewhere overlanders you are just giving the lifestyle a black eye.

Perhaps some self regulation and policing amongst ourselves is in order?





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[Murphy Slaw]

The dirtbike thing was huge in the Arizona desert when I was growing up in the '70's. They eventually fenced off most of the desert.

Now, around here, it's night riding ATV/UTV's. Trespassing, etc.

I'm keeping this new Ram much more stealth / stock looking than most for this reason, and it's plenty capable for me.

There are idiots in every sport/hobby, I just hope it doesn't cost us more land because we are fighting ALL of the extremes.

Tree huggers, Companies, State, Federal, Local, Parks, everybody. The minute they see big tires and a roof basket they jump to conclusions and it's up to US to change their views....

 

[The other Sean]

As already stated, this happens in all trends. I remember when pro touring cars first started to be an idea. initially, it was guys swapping in newer or better parts to make their car a better daily driver. Soon it was unless it was a 6 figure build on a 69 Camaro, you weren't cool. Motorcycles? All of the sudden, it had a 300MM rear tire and was 15 feet long, or it wasn't cool. Rat rods? Started as low budget fun mobile and soon it turned in to rebar, sketchy workmanship and all kinds of farm debris welded all over a vehicle.

 

[MA_Trooper]

It kinda sounds like some folks are hoping that if we further define and add restriction to what "overlanding" is it will prevent land closures or new regulations on our vehicles? Maybe I'm reading this wrong. I hope I am. I don't think lawmakers give a hoot what the "difference" is between overlanding and wheeling or whatever you want to call it. The distinction is a futile effort, at best. The way we keep land from being closed up and new useless regulations is by educating all those who use trails in our area. The destruction is caused mainly by folks not following best practices on the trail, not by calling themselves by a specific name or ascribing to a specific group.

 

[Jeff Graham]

I do think that what most people call overlanding is more so traveling to 4x4. I also think there is too much emphasis put on the off road gear aspect, not every overland vehicle needs to have long travel suspension. It's easy to fall into getting "stuff". Concentrating more on gear than experience. I think it's the same way in the firearm industry too, folks get all the new stuff and never train. In this world, folks get all the suspension and tires because they think they'll be off road or rock climbing all the time, who knows. Isn't the point to go out and see things, share experiences with other like minded individuals, get out in nature. Sure you might have to take a two track or cross a stream to get there, but it's not just about tearing stuff up with 35 inch tires.

I see lots of people that put so much enfaces on the build, they never use their vehicles. It's sad, in my opinion, when you see great equipped vehicles, that have never left the tarmac.

 

[CDN Offroader]

Part of the "attitude" is why I am not a regular on expedition portal. While I love the site and some of the cool trips and info passed around, it has an elitist feel to it. How many threads there have a killjoy posting how someone's trip isn't an expedition because an expedition is for the purpose of discovery or scientific investigation blah blah blah. Anyways, that attitude kept me from getting involved in the site, and the lack of it here is why I enjoy this group.

 

[Username Not Found]

It's sad, in my opinion, when you see great equipped vehicles, that have never left the tarmac.

We call them "Mall Crawlers" where I'm from.
That being said, there are some (myself included) who do a bunch of prep work into their vehicles, but due to the busy pace of life, don't get to get on the dirt as much as they would like. When I'm driving around with my light bar, roof basket and RTT on my freshly washed truck, I'm sure that I look like a Mall Crawler.
I think that it's important to not put too much emphasis on titles. It doesn't matter what you call yourself or others, it matters what you do and what you say.
I enjoy OB because there are other people here who just like to go out and have fun in nature. It doesn't matter what you drive, where you go, or how you get there. What matters is that you are a good steward to the land and to your neighbors. #HippyTreeHugger, #BeExcellentToEachOther
[Rant Over]

 

[Arizona Overland]

Im pretty sure that folks from South Africa and Australia will look at a post from a guy in Vermont and Maine grousing about what Over Landing is and laugh.
You want to talk examples OP? I have a fairly good example of this. 2 recent videos from Andrew St. Pierre addressed this. "What is overloading in North America?" You see, he made the observation that no matter where you go in the United States, your never more than a few hours from civilization.
So, OP, my question to you. Are YOU a true Over Lander? Have YOU traveled through Africa, or Australia, or South America, or through Russia? If so, then good for you, YOU are a TRUE OverLander. If not, well I guess............................
As for the rest of us who can't afford to be global epeditioners, I guess we are just travelers, or 4 wheelers, or campers, or whatever else it is you want to label us.

 

[Billy "Poserlander" Badly]

That being said, there are some (myself included) who do a bunch of prep work into their vehicles, but due to the busy pace of life, don't get to get on the dirt as much as they would like. When I'm driving around with my light bar, roof basket and RTT on my freshly washed truck, I'm sure that I look like a Mall Crawler.

This is me exactly. I plan far more adventures than I actually get to take, what with a full time job, baby, 2 dogs, mortgage, etc... But for me, the planning and outfitting is a large and fun part of the hobby, and I really enjoy it.

I don't know, I have a hard time getting all worked up about misusing the term. The debate reminds me of my high school days, arguing about what was truly "punk rock" and what was poser BS. As long as you explore safely and respectfully, call yourself whatever you'd like. I'll probably always just consider myself a car camper anyway...

Also, I could be wrong, but I suspect that the dude driving the primer-painted, partially-rusted, body-lifted on 35's Franken-truck with the NutzDeep Offroad decal would never self-apply the term "overlander"... Which is good, because that guy's usual style of off-road travel is far more detrimental to the word "overland" than any weekend warrior who has way more gear than strictly necessary, but at least follows Tread Lightly principles on his/her once-a-year dirt road trip.

 

[Mike W]

We almost just need a term for those of us who really truly want to take more and longer trips but are too busy with family, work and obligations. #overworkedlanders

 

[The Raven]

LOL...funny you should mention that. I have travelled in South America, Africa, and Central America as well as many of the farthest point s of Canada in places that most Canadians never see. Always on rentals and short term...but still out there. I also come from a world of two wheels...where your are IN the environment not protected by a cage with AC, locks, tons of nav/com gear and a pile of tools. I'm not saying it's the best or the worst...but instead of calling me out personally why don't you simply try and see what I'm saying.

I feel I was ripped off by a guy who said he was an overlander who was instead a 4 wheeler. Had I known he was going to cut up and modify my pristine Jeep LJ I would have gone with a different buyer. This is why I am tired of the term, and why I don't use it. I'm a full time traveller, nothing more.

Im pretty sure that folks from South Africa and Australia will look at a post from a guy in Vermont and Maine grousing about what Over Landing is and laugh.
You want to talk examples OP? I have a fairly good example of this. 2 recent videos from Andrew St. Pierre addressed this. "What is overloading in North America?" You see, he made the observation that no matter where you go in the United States, your never more than a few hours from civilization.
So, OP, my question to you. Are YOU a true Over Lander? Have YOU traveled through Africa, or Australia, or South America, or through Russia? If so, then good for you, YOU are a TRUE OverLander. If not, well I guess............................
As for the rest of us who can't afford to be global epeditioners, I guess we are just travelers, or 4 wheelers, or campers, or whatever else it is you want to label us.

 

[The Raven]

It kinda sounds like some folks are hoping that if we further define and add restriction to what "overlanding" is it will prevent land closures or new regulations on our vehicles? Maybe I'm reading this wrong. I hope I am. I don't think lawmakers give a hoot what the "difference" is between overlanding and wheeling or whatever you want to call it. The distinction is a futile effort, at best. The way we keep land from being closed up and new useless regulations is by educating all those who use trails in our area. The destruction is caused mainly by folks not following best practices on the trail, not by calling themselves by a specific name or ascribing to a specific group.

How do we do this? I don't want to call anyone out as I'm not like that but there is a well known and respected guy in the northeast that does a lot with Overlanding yet through his actions he has caused routes to be closed, brought a bunch of attention by state officials and even got in trouble to the point that what he does had to be adjusted to accompany the activity. Yet, I doubt any participant would want anything different.

I come from the field of soil and water conservation/regulation. I guess I am a treehugger with a big stick who tries to talk softly. I get the need to have fun and activly participate in a hobby. We all need something. That being said I also see the other side where fragile ecosystems, public ROWs and gravel roads are being beat to hell by guys who just want to get dirty trucks and play with thier gear.

This simply brings me to the point of practicing LNT and tread lightly something that I beleive OB is a supporter of. From what I can see the 4 wheeling types who call themselves overlanders do not support this principle.