Is Electro-Overlanding a thing yet?

[OverlandFaction]

In the UK just a waiting game to get whats coming next.

At some point we will get.

Hybrid Ranger, Hybrid Amarok, Hybrid Hilux, Rivian, Toyota Prado, What we will not get is the F150 or the RAM Truck.

But today the Government is talking about pushing back the green agenda on vehicles.

 

[DosTacos]

Thanks @2WheelRob,

@sanchez_camper all three of us have had our Rivians for a little over a year and have off roaded them extensively. I'm also not one of those EV lovers who sits around sniffing his own farts ( South Park for those who don't get the reference). I also drive a 97 Taco with 5 speed manual transmission and lockers that I'll probably be buried in.

From road trips in charging deserts like Big Bend and Merus to 3000+ mile cross country drives, we have pushed these electric trucks to their limits, often going beyond what the mileage says we're capable of. Over 35k miles in the first year and I'm absolutely thrilled.

The good: 835HP/900+ ft lbs of torque will easily get you over most obstacles or pull the ice cream truck out of the deep sand. The suspension is hydraulic/pneumatic and can raise up to 15" of clearance at the push of a button with a flat belly so there's nothing to bang on rocks. It's also quiet, like I've snuck up on deer multiple times quiet. The 300 mi range is pretty good off-road. I've done multiple days in Colorado without a charge. However Big Bend was a little different. Since it's so big and spread out required additional charging. Since the truck can charge at any RV site it wasn't really an issue though. Technically 110 outlet could be used in a pinch. My favorite is the operating cost though. During a recent trip to New Mexico, I spent $47 round trip on "fuel" from Central Texas to Cloudcroft and back. My friends 4Runner was close to $400 for gas and my buddy I'm 37s wouldn't even tell us how bad his was. Also, there are tens of thousands less components in an EV. That means less probability of failure on the trail. My only maintenance items are wipers and tires. One other really nice thing is over the air updates. When you buy a car from a dealer, what you drive off the lot is what you get. We typically spend thousands more and aftermarket parts to make that vehicle off-road worthy. With Rivian, it's ready to go off-road from day one (34" tires stock) and they add over the air updates like camp mode, rally mode, rock crawl mode, sand mode, drift mode etc. which improve the handling and stability in different driving situations. Plus if you have a RTT and park on unlevel terrain, the truck will level itself for you.

The bad: if there is a failure on the trail, it's much harder to repair in the field. Charging infrastructure sucks. EVs will continue to struggle for the next couple years while fast charging infrastructure is built out. For now, RV parks are your friend when exploring remote destinations.
The ugly - Rivians are pricey! No doubt about it, this is a luxury EV. The three of us were fortunate to get them at legacy pricing from 2018 and also got a $7,500 tax credit bringing the sale price closer to that of an F250. It's also a first generation vehicle so there will be some quirks. So far Rivian has taken good care of those, but they do exist. Also, it's heavy AF. About 6,700 before adding toys. It's like driving a dump truck with a rocket engine.

In summary, I love this truck and have no hesitation about taking it anywhere. It takes a little longer at charging stops every 4 hours or so but that gives me time to stretch my legs and use the bathroom. No regrets and I would absolutely make the same purchase again.
Hope this helps, feel free to let us know if you have additional questions.

Thanks for sharing this detailed experience of owning a Rivian, the only thing I was wondering about was how long is the warranty on the battery? We are still waiting for them to be available in the UK but it looks like a brilliant bit of kit.

On the version that I have the battery warranty is 8 yr or 150k miles. The rest of the vehicle is 5yr or 60k miles bumper to bumper warranty. It won't be too long before they get to the UK. They're actively doing testing over there right now.

 

[MidOH]

In the UK just a waiting game to get whats coming next.

At some point we will get.

Hybrid Ranger, Hybrid Amarok, Hybrid Hilux, Rivian, Toyota Prado, What we will not get is the F150 or the RAM Truck.

But today the Government is talking about pushing back the green agenda on vehicles.

They have no choice. The numbers simply dont work. The green agenda is childish wishful dreaming, by gov't fools sipping coffee at starbucks.

The Usa gov't is just as bad. Epa and Sec of Energy can't even answer a question as simple as "How much electricity on average does America consume." "How much production capability do we have."

They are absolutely morons. They promote slave labor, strip mining, and ruining the power grid. Just for a false sense of eco virtue signaling.



Rivians are easy to spot in my AO. Plugged in at Walmart. Or on the highway, in limp mode at 45mph with the hazard lights on (2 this week already). Great vehicle if you're overlanding at Walmart.

Green batteries, or capacitors, and Hybrid drive systems are becoming viable. But our idiot gov't isn't really interested in actual solutions. Instead they'll support fully electric cars that won't work. Wonder why?

 

[John and Mandi]

Just watch Long Way Up. Sure they made it, but the trip definitely wasn't about the Pan-Am, it was about charging. The diesel generator that had to follow them around should be a dead giveaway and what happened to the van that was supposed to supply solar power. Everything probably looked great on paper but it seemed that they somehow forgot to factor in the angle of the sun.

On another note, I for one do not see charging stations ever replicating the speed of fuel stations. We prefer to stop at beautiful spots to make lunch, explore a historic site, or to take a short hike during our drives over being stuck at wherever there happens to be a charging station.

 

[DintDobbs]

@John and Mandi Once upon a time, when the Chevy Spark was still on the drawing board, it was largely held as feasible to make electric cars run on some standardized, universal battery packs that could be dropped off at gas stations to charge, and you just drop in a charged pack and you're on your way. Like dropping fresh AAA's into your toy radio-controlled cars when you were a kid.

Well, this is ridiculous for a number of reasons, but could have worked when EV's were designed be used as commuters, and not for industrial trucks and buses and long-distance heavyweight travel.

To my knowledge the EPA was not involved in this little innovative idea, and in my opinion, it actually could have worked... as long as you ignore the huge power draw from the grid to charge all those batteries, the huge expense placed on the gas stations to use that power with a miniscule percentage of customers choosing to purchase that option, and the fact that the government wasn't backing and funding that idea at the taxpayer's expense. I don't think anybody cared about how much pollution would have been created, since that idea never went anywhere.

"Ignore the problems and hope for the best" seems to be the prime directive in making the shift to electric vehicles that might appeal to us heavy-duty users. I'll happily buy an all-electric vehicle when they start making one that would be useful to me, at a price I can afford.

I can burn through a tank of gas and be 600 miles away in the time it takes just to charge a battery-powered car once.

Meanwhile, electric vehicles have had their place on golf courses and in department stores for decades. Short-range, low-speed, quiet, unobtrusive operation is sufficient for those applications.

Honestly though, the new Toyota Prius is one hot hybrid, with a turbocharged 2.0 putting out 185 ponies... but it still burns dinosaurs, so even it will be a future target!

 

[John and Mandi]

@John and Mandi Once upon a time, when the Chevy Spark was still on the drawing board, it was largely held as feasible to make electric cars run on some standardized, universal battery packs that could be dropped off at gas stations to charge, and you just drop in a charged pack and you're on your way. Like dropping fresh AAA's into your toy radio-controlled cars when you were a kid.

Well, this is ridiculous for a number of reasons, but could have worked when EV's were designed be used as commuters, and not for industrial trucks and buses and long-distance heavyweight travel.

To my knowledge the EPA was not involved in this little innovative idea, and in my opinion, it actually could have worked... as long as you ignore the huge power draw from the grid to charge all those batteries, the huge expense placed on the gas stations to use that power with a miniscule percentage of customers choosing to purchase that option, and the fact that the government wasn't backing and funding that idea at the taxpayer's expense. I don't think anybody cared about how much pollution would have been created, since that idea never went anywhere.

"Ignore the problems and hope for the best" seems to be the prime directive in making the shift to electric vehicles that might appeal to us heavy-duty users. I'll happily buy an all-electric vehicle when they start making one that would be useful to me, at a price I can afford.

I can burn through a tank of gas and be 600 miles away in the time it takes just to charge a battery-powered car once.

Meanwhile, electric vehicles have had their place on golf courses and in department stores for decades. Short-range, low-speed, quiet, unobtrusive operation is sufficient for those applications.

Honestly though, the new Toyota Prius is one hot hybrid, with a turbocharged 2.0 putting out 185 ponies... but it still burns dinosaurs, so even it will be a future target!

China has swapable batteries but to scale it for even 30% of vehicles…not gonna happen (unless there are a lot less people/ allowed drivers). While there is a niche market for electric vehicles, for overlanding…nope. We do prefer more remote places, no service(s), so if we were only going to paid CGs that were relatively close electric could work.

In the end, if allowed (assuming one subscribes to such things), we’ll be back to horse drawn carriages or maybe just horse back and driving cattle. Hey wait a minute, isn’t that the…

 

[Dave Snyder]

Welcome to Overland Bound.

 

[HighVoltOverland]

I have no doubt the model T ford would fail on the pony express route.

A model S would similarly lack capability.

My Rivian is more than enough for the week long (or less) trips I do

Anecdotally, this is my first rig I can add range back just sitting in the sun (small but still actually doable)

An EV just won the Rebelle Rally.

The times, they are a changing!

 

[HighVoltOverland]

@John and Mandi Once upon a time, when the Chevy Spark was still on the drawing board, it was largely held as feasible to make electric cars run on some standardized, universal battery packs that could be dropped off at gas stations to charge, and you just drop in a charged pack and you're on your way. Like dropping fresh AAA's into your toy radio-controlled cars when you were a kid.

Well, this is ridiculous for a number of reasons, but could have worked when EV's were designed be used as commuters, and not for industrial trucks and buses and long-distance heavyweight travel.

To my knowledge the EPA was not involved in this little innovative idea, and in my opinion, it actually could have worked... as long as you ignore the huge power draw from the grid to charge all those batteries, the huge expense placed on the gas stations to use that power with a miniscule percentage of customers choosing to purchase that option, and the fact that the government wasn't backing and funding that idea at the taxpayer's expense. I don't think anybody cared about how much pollution would have been created, since that idea never went anywhere.

"Ignore the problems and hope for the best" seems to be the prime directive in making the shift to electric vehicles that might appeal to us heavy-duty users. I'll happily buy an all-electric vehicle when they start making one that would be useful to me, at a price I can afford.

I can burn through a tank of gas and be 600 miles away in the time it takes just to charge a battery-powered car once.

Meanwhile, electric vehicles have had their place on golf courses and in department stores for decades. Short-range, low-speed, quiet, unobtrusive operation is sufficient for those applications.

Honestly though, the new Toyota Prius is one hot hybrid, with a turbocharged 2.0 putting out 185 ponies... but it still burns dinosaurs, so even it will be a future target!

Your rig can go 600 miles in 15 minutes?

I’ll have what you’re having!

 

[DintDobbs]

@HighVoltOverland Hold up, your rig can charge from empty to full in 15 minutes in your driveway? I'll have what you're having... if it still runs in 20 years when I can afford it.

No lie, I'll be totally on board with electric cars once there is one that is appealing to me. I'm not knocking electric vehicles - just like I don't knock compact cars, pickup trucks, or semi tractor-trailers. These are all vehicles that exist for reasons, but would serve me equally poorly. However, these other vehicles are not the subject of this thread.

So, go have fun with your rig, if it serves you well! I just got back from 3 days of fun with mine. It may interest you that while I saw no Rivians on this 800-mile trip, there were more than a handful of electric vehicles on the interstates, and there was a Rivian charging station at one of the state park visitors centers.

In defense of the electric vehicle's case, one very clear advantage (grid capabilities notwithstanding) is that installing a charging station is a much smaller and more affordable operation than digging a hole, burying a tank, and setting up a gas pump. All of you old-schoolers are going to accept this fact, like it or don't, just like gas pumps replacing horse watering troughs.

 

[HighVoltOverland]

@HighVoltOverland Hold up, your rig can charge from empty to full in 15 minutes in your driveway? I'll have what you're having... if it still runs in 20 years when I can afford it.

No lie, I'll be totally on board with electric cars once there is one that is appealing to me. I'm not knocking electric vehicles - just like I don't knock compact cars, pickup trucks, or semi tractor-trailers. These are all vehicles that exist for reasons, but would serve me equally poorly. However, these other vehicles are not the subject of this thread.

So, go have fun with your rig, if it serves you well! I just got back from 3 days of fun with mine. It may interest you that while I saw no Rivians on this 800-mile trip, there were more than a handful of electric vehicles on the interstates, and there was a Rivian charging station at one of the state park visitors centers.

In defense of the electric vehicle's case, one very clear advantage (grid capabilities notwithstanding) is that installing a charging station is a much smaller and more affordable operation than digging a hole, burying a tank, and setting up a gas pump. All of you old-schoolers are going to accept this fact, like it or don't, just like gas pumps replacing horse watering troughs.

Daggumit the goal post keeps moving!
Not to complete full in my driveway.
But, at a public charger, I can comfortably get 210-250 miles of range in those 15 minutes.
Charging is non-linear. Full charging is generally only done if absolutely needed.
Don't know any overlanders that have a gas pump at home, so even "slow" 20mph charging at home seems like a benefit of EV over Dino-juice.
Plenty of million mile plus Teslas on the road now, I'll keep you bookmarked as a potential buyer in a couple decades ;)

I too just came back from a multi day trip. A little less than 500 miles round trip, personally did about 100 miles of truly off-road, even found the time to plant some Joshua Trees with some other OB folks, all for the grand total of $12 for "fuel".

 

[DintDobbs]

@HighVoltOverland Nice! And the reason I say "in the driveway" (moving the goal post, as it were) is that I carry almost a whole tank of gas in spare fuel on my outings, which can be used to fill my tank in the driveway in obviously less than 15 minutes. Here however electric fuel has a trade-off advantage, in that while your car can't necessarily be charged AS FAST at home as it can at a charging station, it CAN be charged at home... even from a gas generator, if needed (although there is a diminishing practicality of doing this when you could just keep a spare, gas-powered vehicle for those days when the power is out for more than a week on end - perhaps this doesn't apply to you).

The simple fact of the matter is that electro-overlanding IS a thing, and is becoming a more and more feasible thing, as electric vehicles become more commonly supported within the industry.

Undoubtedly one day people will look back at gas-powered cars and question the reason that such a design ever existed, and look back at these groundbreaking electric cars of today and laugh at them the way we fondly recall the abomination that was the Ford Pinto, or snicker at the so-called Smart ForTwo which got a lousy 33 MPG while my mid-size Elantra regularly gets 45+, seats four, and can go a whole lot faster.

Really, I think people are upset much more over the legislative motions than about the technology involved in these developments. I can relate with those people, in thinking the economy and consumerism should direct the development - but people aren't buying $100,000 electric sports cars because it's the law!

 

[Downs]

Great article. I agree with most points in the bottom line comes down to charging infrastructure needs to improve. That will happen over the next few years. Most people don't realize when Henry Ford started selling the model t gas stations weren't a thing. You went to the hardware store with your bucket and bought a pail of gasoline. We're at a similar stage with charging right now. Charging is going to be one of the hottest growth markets in the next 5 years and it's totally the wild West right now. Will be interesting to see how it evolves.

I use this analogy all the time. Our refueling infrastructure didn't pop up overnight. It took decades to get to the point of having a gas station on nearly every corner. It will take a similar amount of time (probably less in reality) to get electric infrastructure to that point. It's unfortunate that the US went to 110 volt while the rest of the world went to 220 volt for our standard power for consumer use. This would put us a bit ahead in the world of charging vehicles. But oh well, we have what we have. WE really need to open our minds to further expansion of nuclear power. As much as people don't want it or are scared of it, it's the only truly "green" options we have in the grand scheme of things. And with the advent and approval of SMRs, we have the capability to really expand our power production capability rapidly.

 

[grubworm]

this was about 120 yrs ago. 100 miles on one charge. that was before the first airplane which has advanced in technology from the first flight being 170 feet to going to the moon about 66 years later. think about that...the first flight was in 1903 and then they are flying to the moon 66 years later while around the same time, there was an electric car already getting 100 miles to a charge and then 120 years later its barely any better.

its not technology thats the problem...its money and politics.

 

[DosTacos]

View attachment 268815

this was about 120 yrs ago. 100 miles on one charge. that was before the first airplane which has advanced in technology from the first flight being 170 feet to going to the moon about 66 years later. think about that...the first flight was in 1903 and then they are flying to the moon 66 years later while around the same time, there was an electric car already getting 100 miles to a charge and then 120 years later its barely any better.

its not technology thats the problem...its money and politics.

I was lucky enough to see one of these recently along with the Edison Battery that powered it. Money and politics play a big role.

 

[Downs]

View attachment 268815

this was about 120 yrs ago. 100 miles on one charge. that was before the first airplane which has advanced in technology from the first flight being 170 feet to going to the moon about 66 years later. think about that...the first flight was in 1903 and then they are flying to the moon 66 years later while around the same time, there was an electric car already getting 100 miles to a charge and then 120 years later its barely any better.

its not technology thats the problem...its money and politics.

How much had we invested in battery tech between then and now? We've really only started to push for advancements in battery/power storage tech at the consumer level in the past 20 years or so, and that conincides with our expanded increase in reliance on technology that needs to be portable. Smartphones and tablets, anyone? Aircraft had the advantage of being very enticing from a military and commercial standpoint. Almost all of those advancements that happened in that short time frame centered around trying to make things better at killing each other (military applications) or controlling each other (political applications with regard to the space race). At that time, there were few if any concerns about burning up oil, there was no drive to develop battery technology.

 

[DintDobbs]

@Downs Well, the drive to sustain commercial success by any means necessary amidst crackdowns on environmental politics seems to be the force that powers the advancement in electric car technology.

On one hand, as I already said in this thread, people aren't buying $100,000 electric sports cars because any one is forcing them to. On the other hand, companies are manufacturing them because they are being paid to by government authorities in both Europe and the United States, and these companies are also financially penalized if they don't meet stringent fuel economy requirements.

The governments also offer tax reductions and are paying part of the list price as an "incentive" for customers to choose these options. Now, politically speaking, this is a big problem when the government is disallowed to intervene in private business - which is exactly the reason that most Americans aren't really on board with the electric vehicles. The technology is being pushed by governments, ready or not, so companies are trying their hardest to comply with the requirements while offering products that people will buy - targeting the opulent seems to be their best bet, and so far, it seems to be working!

 

[Downs]

@Downs Well, the drive to sustain commercial success by any means necessary amidst crackdowns on environmental politics seems to be the force that powers the advancement in electric car technology.

On one hand, as I already said in this thread, people aren't buying $100,000 electric sports cars because any one is forcing them to. On the other hand, companies are manufacturing them because they are being paid to by government authorities in both Europe and the United States, and these companies are also financially penalized if they don't meet stringent fuel economy requirements.

The governments also offer tax reductions and are paying part of the list price as an "incentive" for customers to choose these options. Now, politically speaking, this is a big problem when the government is disallowed to intervene in private business - which is exactly the reason that most Americans aren't really on board with the electric vehicles. The technology is being pushed by governments, ready or not, so companies are trying their hardest to comply with the requirements while offering products that people will buy - targeting the opulent seems to be their best bet, and so far, it seems to be working!

Mostly agreed, but we are seeing those advancements, regardless of how they're coming about at this point. There's not much I can do to control what the gov is doing past what I already do at the ballot box and the emails I send to those I vote on.

I think one of our biggest hurdles now is having the infrastructure catch up with and surpass what we need. Battery tech can continue to be improved upon. We have the ability to charge cars in a relatively short time now. 20 mins will get you 80ish percent. I mean really, when you get down to it, most folks spend at least that long at fuel stops between fueling, bathrooms and snacks.

 

[DintDobbs]

@Downs If only the governments would keep their grubby hands off it, we could see an impressive technology win the hearts of the people by offering its own trade-offs. In a perfect world, we would see fuel stations offering both fossil fuels and battery charging stations.

Still gonna keep my old ICE's either way. I don't care how fast or efficient the new tech is, there's no freedom like being able to strap another car behind your car and not having to think about fuel range.

 

[bgenlvtex]

@Downs Well, the drive to sustain commercial success by any means necessary amidst crackdowns on environmental politics seems to be the force that powers the advancement in electric car technology.

On one hand, as I already said in this thread, people aren't buying $100,000 electric sports cars because any one is forcing them to. On the other hand, companies are manufacturing them because they are being paid to by government authorities in both Europe and the United States, and these companies are also financially penalized if they don't meet stringent fuel economy requirements.

The governments also offer tax reductions and are paying part of the list price as an "incentive" for customers to choose these options. Now, politically speaking, this is a big problem when the government is disallowed to intervene in private business - which is exactly the reason that most Americans aren't really on board with the electric vehicles. The technology is being pushed by governments, ready or not, so companies are trying their hardest to comply with the requirements while offering products that people will buy - targeting the opulent seems to be their best bet, and so far, it seems to be working!

Ford loses $36,000 on every F150 lightning they produce link , I've seen similar but larger numbers for Rivian
The taxpayer loses another $7,500
Those losses/costs are packaged into vehicles that the majority of consumers actually want (IC) and shouldered involuntarily by the taxpayer

I recently bought a new Wagoneer and got a survey in my email, pretty long when I loaded it up, maybe 40 pages. There were several questions like (paraphrased) "Would you pay more for an environmentally friendly vehicle" "Would you consider EV as an alternative", "Did you shop EV's when making your purchase decision" "How important is environmentally friendly vehicles". In each case my answer was "no" or "not at all". When I entered the answer each time, the page would refresh and another similar question would populate.

EV is not about:
The environment
Your convenience
Economics

EV's are about ushering in a manner to control personal freedom, always have been, always will be.

If people want one I hope they get one and it is a wondrous experience for them, but EV's as they exist today (and bound by technology will continue to exist for the foreseeable future) are just another money/power/control grab brought to you by the same nefarious assholes who created and deployed Covid 19 and for all the same reasons..