In the Public's eye

[MOAK]

What happened in Texas a couple weekends ago was not only tragic for those seriously injured, but tragic for our community, aka, Overlanders. In the Public Eye, anyone driving a lifted off road rig is no better than the ash-ole's at that jeep event. Why-O-Why does this never happen at a Toyota event? There are currently more than 10,000 signatures that have signed a petition to shut the event down. In all honesty, I'd be signing that petition as well. It is unfortunate that Jeep people haven't found a way to police their own. Way back when the Harley Davidson folks had this very same problem, a few bad apples gave the entire motorcycle crowd a very bad name. Over the past 40 years or so, they have managed to change their overall image. If we take 40 years or so to change the "overall image" of off pavement rigs, we'll loose all access to back country. All that will be left is pay for play parks. John Q Public will bury us, so to speak. John Q Public doesn't understand the very major difference between Overlanders, that enjoy traveling to remote places to connect and help to preserve the natural environment, and the low life ash-ole's that just don't give a damn about anything except their own hedonistic pleasure. Just how are we supposed to delineate ourselves from them? I understand this is a very hot topic, and that I have posed a rhetorical question. However, it must be discussed and you jeep people need to find a way to start policing your own.

Here's a start, If any OB members were at that event, and didn't leave it immediately, when things began to turn south, they should be held accountable within this organization...

 

[Correus]

What happened?

I rarely ever watch the news anymore since it became a political tool.

 

[David C Gibbs]

MOAK, I am unaware of the event you are speaking of. However, there have been "Bad" TLCA members, and those local clubs used the established rules to terminate a TLCA membership because that individual violated the Tread Lightly, or Club rules. I have 100's of photos of damage done to meadows, bogs, and riparian areas by people who weren't thinking for whatever reason. Damage is damage, and takes years and years to repair. Today, my concern isn't a well built Jeep, FJ80, Dodge 3500 - it's the growth of the UTE and ATV community which do not share the common "Tread Lighly" theme of travel. I have taken photos of them, in designated "Stay on Trail" out in open meadows doing donuts. I report these idiots and do what I can to educate them of the damage they are doing to the greater community, and for the most part "They Don't Care." Gibbs

 

[Correus]

Okay, found what OP is talking about.

It's the 'Go Topless' Jeep event on Crystal Beach in Texas. Lots of vids and photos, looks more like a drunken brawl event more than a 4x4 event. Evidently lots of arrests and injuries; one guy got his head ran over. Based on all of this the locals have started a petition calling to end the event. It sounds like this event has always been a bit rowdy and has gotten worse over time.

 

[OtherOrb]

Agreed.

It's not just Jeeps, of course. The reason I say that is the moment we aim this at one subgroup it allows the rest of us off the hook.

These stupidity- and often alcohol-fueled tragedies happen throughout the community. And almost always in the public eye. And it doesn't matter if it was an unavoidable accident or an act of stupidity, recklessness, carelessness, or if it was intentional.

Intent is meaningless.

Impact on others, the community, and the environment is what matters.

 

[MOAK]

MOAK, I am unaware of the event you are speaking of. However, there have been "Bad" TLCA members, and those local clubs used the established rules to terminate a TLCA membership because that individual violated the Tread Lightly, or Club rules. I have 100's of photos of damage done to meadows, bogs, and riparian areas by people who weren't thinking for whatever reason. Damage is damage, and takes years and years to repair. Today, my concern isn't a well built Jeep, FJ80, Dodge 3500 - it's the growth of the UTE and ATV community which do not share the common "Tread Lighly" theme of travel. I have taken photos of them, in designated "Stay on Trail" out in open meadows doing donuts. I report these idiots and do what I can to educate them of the damage they are doing to the greater community, and for the most part "They Don't Care." Gibbs

Yes, I'm a member of the TLCA and the rules are very explicit. One strike and you are out, as It should be. Here is a but one link to the story I refer to. There are several news outlets that covered it. Here is but one link to very many. Maybe Jeep organizers ought to re-think the language used to describe their events. Go Topless, or Go Naked. What that might mean to jeep owners certainly doesn't carry the same definition to the general population.
6 Hospitalized, Roughly 70 Arrested During ‘Go Topless Jeep Weekend’ In Texas Due To Massive Brawls

 

[LD5050]

You were doing so well, and then

...you jeep people need to start policing your own

May as well ask “Ford people” to start policing their own.
If I had to arbitrarily lump all those stupid people together, I’d definitely go with “Houstonians” over “Jeep people”.
And I don’t own or particularly like Jeeps, and I’ve lived in Houston twice. The only group to fairly label them under would be “trash”.
I can understand your indignity at the situation, especially if you’re a local, but not really your insistence that it be discussed here. No offense, but if you consider that group/event overlanding, then we have a very different definition of overlanding.

 

[OtherOrb]

No offense, but if you consider that group/event overlanding, then we have a very different definition of overlanding.

The point is not that the Go Topless event/group is or is not overlanding.

It's that there's no difference *in the public eye* between a Jeep at that event and almost any Jeep on these forums. The point is, whether any of us like it or not, the general public sees these things: overlanding, rock crawling, OHVs ripping up riparian araes, and dozens of people being arrested, drinking and driving, and gunfire on the beach at a Jeep event as all the same things. It doesn't matter that we define overlanding as different from rock crawling as different from mall crawling as different from tearing up a beach.

Are OHVs tearing up trails and meadows and getting roads shut down? It affects you and me just as much as the jerk who did it. More, because the jerk is going to continue ripping up that area regardless of the law and regardless of the damage they do to the environment or to the community that were previously responsibly using the trail.

If we want others to have a definition that is similar to ours, we need to be visibly, audibly, purposefully different. And we need to make statements, as the OP asked, that we are different and that we do things differently.

 

[THorner]

It is unfortunate that in today's society we and the media tend to focus on the negative rather than the positive. Please remember "it doesn't matter what you drive". I happen to drive a Jeep. What happened in Galviston was unfortunate and after reviewing the link provided as well as several others it appeared to me that there were a lot of people at the event that didn't own a Jeep. There were also a lot of young (underage) people that were drinking / drunk. The situation gave Jeep more than anyone else a black eye and that saddens me. This can happen at any type of event. As an alternative I suggest people view the following: Go Topless Day l ExtremeTerrain . This event in PA ccelebrated Go Topless and raised funds for local charity. Just my $0.02.

 

[OwenMcCoy]

Well, in my experience every group of people have their idiots! For some people... Any excuse to get drunk and fight and act that way then they will take it.

 

[hidesertwheelin]

The problem is that a lot of newcomers to the scene were not tough to be respectful and to be responsable for their own actions. I can't wait for the instabro people to find a new hobby to latch onto. People need to get their butts handed to them a few times and maybe they will start to realize they are responsible for their actions and that actions have consciousnesses.

 

[Correus]

You were doing so well, and then
May as well ask “Ford people” to start policing their own.
If I had to arbitrarily lump all those stupid people together, I’d definitely go with “Houstonians” over “Jeep people”.
And I don’t own or particularly like Jeeps, and I’ve lived in Houston twice. The only group to fairly label them under would be “trash”.
I can understand your indignity at the situation, especially if you’re a local, but not really your insistence that it be discussed here. No offense, but if you consider that group/event overlanding, then we have a very different definition of overlanding.

Around here we refer to that type of 4x4 mindset as "those kind" or "bubba redneck" or "goat roper". There are many that do own jeeps, but most seem to own any assortment of truck as long as they are big and can be lifted to the point you need a ladder or elevator to get inside. There also appears to be an age range for most of them in my area - 16 to in their mid 30s. Perhaps the best way to classify those type in my area is by lumping them in with the "King of the Hill" character Lucky and his buddies.

 

[Correus]

It is unfortunate that in today's society we and the media tend to focus on the negative rather than the positive. Please remember "it doesn't matter what you drive". I happen to drive a Jeep. What happened in Galviston was unfortunate and after reviewing the link provided as well as several others it appeared to me that there were a lot of people at the event that didn't own a Jeep. There were also a lot of young (underage) people that were drinking / drunk. The situation gave Jeep more than anyone else a black eye and that saddens me. This can happen at any type of event. As an alternative I suggest people view the following: Go Topless Day l ExtremeTerrain . This event in PA ccelebrated Go Topless and raised funds for local charity. Just my $0.02.

Very true.... however, I have as yet to see a Land Rover event in the US get this way! LOL - just ribbing the Jeep set...

 

[MOAK]

Very true.... however, I have as yet to see a Land Rover event in the US get this way! LOL - just ribbing the Jeep set...

Very true,, I was accused earlier in this conversation of labeling the offenders as Jeep people. It is what it is... Rover event here in my hometown never makes trouble nor do TLCA crowds. Then we suggest they police themselves by reprimanding club members or by changing the double meaninged names of their events. Now we’re the bad guys cause we think the rednecks outta get their crap in order?

 

[rgk401]

Just because I drink a Jeep doesn’t mean I’m a bad person. The event in Texas was a mistake,it’s always been that bad. Back in 2016 there was a shooting,and a few other mishaps. I personally avoid large groups of people and off road events. After 2016 I said I’ll never go to a Motoring event. Since then Iv skipped all Jeep events,and overland bound rally’s and Expo’s. I will be one of the people that sign the partition to stop the Jeep event in Texas and also EJS I’m moab. I watched a few videos in YouTube and one guy ran over a woman while drunk,a guy flipped his rock crawling buggy and left it upside down for a few hours and all the oil and coolant drained on the grounds!!!!! There was trash being left on the trails and broken parts. Not just Jeep parts but Toyota parts also. It’s not just a Jeep problem it’s a people problem!!!!

 

[OtherOrb]

It's not just jeepers. Not just newcomers. Not just 4x4ers. As @rgk401 noted, i t is a people problem; all ages, all vehicles, all clubs, all histories.

And it's a bystander problem. Probably 80-90% of the people there were doing good. But (almost?) nobody stepped in to stop the bad behaviors. Certainly the organizers didn't do their jobs. But neither did the community members.

And even though we weren't there, we can still step up and say something now. We can say we won't put up with that in our community. That not only do we not condone that behavior, we do not tolerate it.
Drinking and driving? No.
Polluting the beach (or other environment)? No.
Discharging firearms? No.
No more of this.

 

[alexdnick]

I like how you are saying “ToyOTa OWnerS DoNt Do thIS” when that Tacoma bro on Instagram was going around graffitiing his name on stuff in the wild and landmarks.

Just cause you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. Some people are just assholes. It’s the way things are

 

[alexdnick]

And you are saying OB members at the even should be held accountable if they didn’t leave immediately?

How is staying there and not doing anything any worse than just leaving and not doing anything like you said they should do?

And what are you gonna do? Delete their account?

The original post on this thread is a complete joke lol

 

[xterramom]

I ride motorcycles . And i want to knock some other riders off there bikes ...... passing at 60 in a 40 over double lines..... high way crazy driving. And when im out there i could be the target of hate caused by these idiots.
You cant control individual idiots on the road. But clubs and group meetups have the RESPONSIBILITY to enforce public safety! Hire police , security , sighn wavers, take individuals info so they know they will be held accountable.
We will loose the ability and freedom of overlanding, and that will change everything for us and our kids .
Please if you see stupid , say something. Let them know its not wanted . (Without starting a fight, stay safe)
[emoji31]

 

[Billiebob]

Well said.

I think we do some of the damage to ourselves tho.

Overlanding is not the same as extreme Jeeping. There is no need to even modify an overlander. Stock they are more reliable than lifted with oversize tires. I've done all those mods, now I overland in a box stock Rubicon with an AEV HighLine and 33s. I'll back up a small lift, and say a 10% increase in tire size but as an overlander going bigger is just stupid. Look at the overlanders who go around the world. None of them are in extreme rigs. Anyone saying "but I can't get where I want to go" is not an overlander.

Every mod exposes a weak point, needing another mod and a new weak point. The factory engineers have a way bigger R&D budget than any after market supplier. Keep it close to stock. Keep it under the manufacturers GVWR. You'll never need to carry spare parts. AND you won't group yourself in with the retards driving the trail closures.

Harley Davidson gained acceptance by building QUIET bikes. And most of todays HD riders are willing to tell the odd idiot with straight pipes he is not cool. HD did it by influencing owners to promote a positive image.

You expect respect for our "Tread Lightly. Pack Out More Than You Pack In" attitude.... You need to look the part too.

Maybe we need to better define "Overlanding"