I feel like an apple freak. It's bronco release day. Ha ha.

[Autism Family Travels]

I hear you, and I suspect and hope that you will be correct, but that is quite a few “absolute truths” about a vehicle that won’t start delivery until next year. The truth is we don’t really know for sure yet how good this thing will be - I suspect very good — but every modern 4x4 is “very good” so it’s tough to say this unreleased new rig is better or worse than the others. Right now the majority of the info on the Bronco is from Ford — that’s a case of the Barber telling us how badly we all need a haircut. It’s almost like they want to sell these things to folks like us ;)

We have some very promising specifications, a cool retro design with apparently lots of accessories, and a video from Ford showing off road driving with a disclaimer about digital enhancement of vehicle images - a video that Ford knows full well could make or break this announcement and have a huge impact on the success of the vehicle. To be clear, I’m not saying that Ford definitely played some Hollywood games to make the Bronco look better off road (for all we know, digital enhancement may refer to colour correction of the paint in bad light), but what I am saying we won’t know for sure until people get keys in hands and test them out. For the same reasons, I’m optimistic but cautious on the Ineos Grenadier which had a similar little digital video intro, and even the new Defender (to a much lesser degree since it’s out with a lot of independent evaluation available already)

In terms of what other people “need” - The needs of Overlanders are as diverse as this wondeful world we like to explore. Take a look at some of the arctic exploration rigs popular in Europe (Iceland, Norway). Those guys need to install massive 40“ high flotation tires, and in many cases a bigger lift is absolutely necessary to accommodate that. There are similar needs for vehicles that are used in swampy conditions. And in Canada, you may even have seen Track conversions for 4x4s that sometimes need more than a 2” lift.

And for another example of the needs of others, how do you think this thing handles off-road? I bet it can go more places off road than the Bronco, but I don’t think the pontoons are in this year’s MOPAR catalogue so maybe that will even the playing field ;) (For context, this person’s application was an attempted RTW trip including the Bering Sea, if I remember correctly - he was not successful if I recall, but it still illustrates the “application specific” nature of this hobby).

View attachment 163245

actually, our tracks fit on stock wranglers. The upgrade needed for them are full lockers since the traction from one track will cause limited slips and open diffs to spin you around. They are fun though. Been in a couple of jeeps with the tracks kit on them.

 

[Rath]

honestly for anyone crying about no SFA, or saying the Jeep's SFA makes it much better is just holding onto a dream. I would have loved to see a SFA on the bronco, because hey it's a bronco. But in all reality it makes no difference offroad.

Look at the guys from 247 4wd (formerly 4wd Action) Graham drives a IFS rig on freakin 31" tires, and goes everywhere the SFA guys do, and the SFA are far from stock on 35's. Sure you might have to pick a different line, etc, but it will in no way hinder you offroad like some people are making it out to be.

the ONLY thing I will give in to, is ease of working on and replacing parts, especially on trail. That's one area the SFA will absolutely be better than IFS.

 

[M Rose]

so, I have a 4th Gen FSB... TTB front axle, my good buddy drives a stock 2019 F-150 als T, we go everywhere the Solid Axles go... Bronco lost the SFA in 1978 when the second gen was born and the first FSB rolled off the assembly line in Detroit.

The new Bronco is running a true IFSS, the same one designed by Ford for AM General to use in the HMMWV, and later was redesigned into a 10 ton axle for the MRAP. Yes I have seen twisted and broken half shafts, but none at the joints... always snapped in the middle and always due to neglect. For those of you thinking that this axle won’t work in a crawling environment, think again, the King of the Hammers champion wine with a front and rear ISS.
If all you guys can do is argue about what axle is best, then Ford did a great job building what the customers have been asking for for the past 2 decades. A lot of thought, R&D, and consumer research went into this new Bronco, and I for one can’t wait to see it out in the wild.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

so, I have a 4th Gen FSB... TTB front axle, my good buddy drives a stock 2019 F-150 als T, we go everywhere the Solid Axles go... Bronco lost the SFA in 1978 when the second gen was born and the first FSB rolled off the assembly line in Detroit.

The new Bronco is running a true IFSS, the same one designed by Ford for AM General to use in the HMMWV, and later was redesigned into a 10 ton axle for the MRAP. Yes I have seen twisted and broken half shafts, but none at the joints... always snapped in the middle and always due to neglect. For those of you thinking that this axle won’t work in a crawling environment, think again, the King of the Hammers champion wine with a front and rear ISS.
If all you guys can do is argue about what axle is best, then Ford did a great job building what the customers have been asking for for the past 2 decades. A lot of thought, R&D, and consumer research went into this new Bronco, and I for one can’t wait to see it out in the wild.

I just watched a video where a Die Hard jeep owner went through the new bronco. This guy owns a shop working on jeeps etc. The ONLY negative he could find when comparing his JL rubicon to the Bronco was cost of lifting, and upfront costs of the "first edition". That was it. Everything else he compared, he said the bronco can do better than the JL. Now, i noticed on his JL adustable Falcons so cost of lifting is moot since his shocks cost more than most lifts. HA HA.

 

[Smileyshaun]

Oh god let’s get the dick ruler out so everybody can prove why one suspension system is better “well I did ______ trail stock and walked right by ________ built vehicle’s.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

It's only people with small Willie's who think this is a measuring contest. We are having a discussion, nothing more.

 

[Smileyshaun]

It's only people with small Willie's who think this is a measuring contest. We are having a discussion, nothing more.

Well now there is sure a lot of back-and-forth why SFA is better than IFS but this is a whole Lotta discussion back-and-forth about a vehicle that not one of us have driven yet so can’t have any actual commentary on how the IFS works on it or the train management system although it’s probably a lot like the Rangers is which actually works fantastically well and is really quiet when compared to others train management systems.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

Well now there is sure a lot of back-and-forth why SFA is better than IFS but this is a whole Lotta discussion back-and-forth about a vehicle that not one of us have driven yet so can’t have any actual commentary on how the IFS works on it or the train management system although it’s probably a lot like the Rangers is which actually works fantastically well and is really quiet when compared to others train management systems.

That's the point. Back and forth about the rigs. No one is getting their panties in a bunch.

 

[Scott_Milk]

So I have very little experience with solid axles to be honest, but I believe ISS gets a bad wrap from a lot of people because it's "unreliable". However, when ISS first started becoming popular, it may have been less reliable than a solid axle and it's more complex. But over the years ISS has gotten a lot better and more reliable with some obvious benefits like ground clearance and smoother ride. While it's still more complex and potentially not fixable on the trail, I would reconsider ISS in something newer like the bronco for anyone who thinks they aren't reliable. Just my 2¢

 

[LostWoods]

Well now there is sure a lot of back-and-forth why SFA is better than IFS but this is a whole Lotta discussion back-and-forth about a vehicle that not one of us have driven yet so can’t have any actual commentary on how the IFS works on it or the train management system although it’s probably a lot like the Rangers is which actually works fantastically well and is really quiet when compared to others train management systems.

Geometry is geometry and a double wishbone is a double wishbone. You can work out slight improvements here and there but much like the on-road manners of a solid front axle, the natural limitations of the design can't be eliminated.

 

[LostWoods]

So I have very little experience with solid axles to be honest, but I believe ISS gets a bad wrap from a lot of people because it's "unreliable". However, when ISS first started becoming popular, it may have been less reliable than a solid axle and it's more complex. But over the years ISS has gotten a lot better and more reliable with some obvious benefits like ground clearance and smoother ride. While it's still more complex and potentially not fixable on the trail, I would reconsider ISS in something newer like the bronco for anyone who thinks they aren't reliable. Just my 2¢

It's only unreliable when abused. If you're bouncing all over trying to get over obstacles, you'll break something whether its IFS or not - IFS are just more prone to it because of the 2-joint axle binds easier as the suspension cycles but that's also (typically) a much faster and easier fix than replacing a shaft on an SFA axle. As was mentioned above, carry a spare (assuming it' s like a Tacoma where they're the same... otherwise carry two) and you're very unlikely to be stranded with an IFS over breakages.

 

[Downs]

so, I have a 4th Gen FSB... TTB front axle, my good buddy drives a stock 2019 F-150 als T, we go everywhere the Solid Axles go... Bronco lost the SFA in 1978 when the second gen was born and the first FSB rolled off the assembly line in Detroit.

The new Bronco is running a true IFSS, the same one designed by Ford for AM General to use in the HMMWV, and later was redesigned into a 10 ton axle for the MRAP. Yes I have seen twisted and broken half shafts, but none at the joints... always snapped in the middle and always due to neglect. For those of you thinking that this axle won’t work in a crawling environment, think again, the King of the Hammers champion wine with a front and rear ISS.
If all you guys can do is argue about what axle is best, then Ford did a great job building what the customers have been asking for for the past 2 decades. A lot of thought, R&D, and consumer research went into this new Bronco, and I for one can’t wait to see it out in the wild.

Unless the Bronco is using a portal axle setup I fail to see how it's like the HMMWV. Where's the info that they are using the same suspension design?

I've never seen ANY info about Ford working on anything for AM General. If you have different info I'd love to read it. AM General was owned by none other than American Motors Corp when the HMMWV was being designed until 1983 when LTV Corp bought AM General from AMC. Only 3 companies even submitted designs for the HMMWV and that was AMGeneral, Chrysler Defense, and Teledyne Continental. I've never heard of Ford having any design input on the HMMVW but if it's out there I want to add it to my info.

 

[M Rose]

Unless the Bronco is using a portal axle setup I fail to see how it's like the HMMWV. Where's the info that they are using the same suspension design?

I've never seen ANY info about Ford working on anything for AM General. If you have different info I'd love to read it. AM General was owned by none other than American Motors Corp when the HMMWV was being designed until 1983 when LTV Corp bought AM General from AMC. Only 3 companies even submitted designs for the HMMWV and that was AMGeneral, Chrysler Defense, and Teledyne Continental. I've never heard of Ford having any design input on the HMMVW but if it's out there I want to add it to my info.

The military had every manufacturer involved in prototyping the HMMWV, they took all the prototypes and took what worked best and told them all to go back and build V2 prototypes, from this the lowest bidder was selected (AM General). The system is identical minus the portals... the portals are only gear reduction units that offer a lift that the HMMWV needed to clear 37’s.
As for information, look at the design... same style of control arms, same 4 bolt flange to a centeraly located frame mounted differential, similar fame mounts, and a whole lot of other similarities...

 

[Downs]

I've spent the last hour or so searching for any FORD involvement in the HMMWV design and can find nothing.

Anyway here's pictures of each design. I'm not seeing HMMWV in the front of the BRONCO with exception of they're both IFS.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

I've spent the last hour or so searching for any FORD involvement in the HMMWV design and can find nothing.

Anyway here's pictures of each design. I'm not seeing HMMWV in the front of the BRONCO with exception of they're both IFS.

Just looking at that bronco front end. Looks like Ford uses a better ball joint to increase flex. Also, judging by the a arms and mounts there is lots of travel too.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

It's only unreliable when abused. If you're bouncing all over trying to get over obstacles, you'll break something whether its IFS or not - IFS are just more prone to it because of the 2-joint axle binds easier as the suspension cycles but that's also (typically) a much faster and easier fix than replacing a shaft on an SFA axle. As was mentioned above, carry a spare (assuming it' s like a Tacoma where they're the same... otherwise carry two) and you're very unlikely to be stranded with an IFS over breakages.

Rcv axles fix all that too for not a huge amount of money. On my suburban I had a coil over conversion, and rcvs. Was a huge improvement.

 

[billum v2.0]

I hear there were a lot of Wrangler owners involved.

Sure seems that way.

Nice to know someone is interested in what Wrangler owners want. Ironic that it turns out to be Ford........

 

[AggieOE]

Sure seems that way.

Nice to know someone is interested in what Wrangler owners want. Ironic that it turns out to be Ford........

I wouldn't be completely opposed to Jeep trying a independent front end on a Wrangler.
Something stout though with a hydraulic sway bar disconnect and perhaps longer than usual IFS travel, still with the rock crawling community in mind.
You know, something similar to the Bronco. lol
I've done the Moab thing and I've done some rock crawling but that isn't every day or the entirety of our trips.
My wife prefers we take her 4Runner on cross country camping trips since it's simply more comfortable on the highway and has been able to do anything we've put it through, trails, switchbacks, obstacles, etc.
If the Jeep was more comfortable on the highway, we'd take it everywhere (because IMO its like the coolest vehicle). But it isn't, so we don't. The Bronco will be though.

 

[billum v2.0]

I wouldn't be completely opposed to Jeep trying a independent front end on a Wrangler.
Something stout though with a hydraulic sway bar disconnect and perhaps longer than usual IFS travel, still with the rock crawling community in mind.
You know, something similar to the Bronco. lol
I've done the Moab thing and I've done some rock crawling but that isn't every day or the entirety of our trips.
My wife prefers we take her 4Runner on cross country camping trips since it's simply more comfortable on the highway and has been able to do anything we've put it through, trails, switchbacks, obstacles, etc.
If the Jeep was more comfortable on the highway, we'd take it everywhere (because IMO its like the coolest vehicle). But it isn't, so we don't. The Bronco will be though.

Don't disagree with most of your thoughts....... although an IFS in a Wrangler may be nearing sacrilege. Living in the upper Midwest, Ouray/Moab/Prescott/Phoenix are all 16+ hour trips one way for a few hours of trail time. No complaints once we're there, but the getting to/from has gotten long in the 2 door.

My '14 JK willl be up for replacement in a couple years. Was hoping Ford thought out the Bronco enough to bring FCA to the table during that time. Appears they're moving (scrambling??) towards a Bronco response sooner than anticipated.

Rubicon Wrangler Gets SRT Scat Pack Soul, Beefier Components

New Jeep Wrangler Rubicon gets new Dana 44s, new lockes, new transfer case and a hefty 450 horsepower to tie it all together.

www.jk-forum.com

Sounds enticing............if they actually build it. And until they price it in the $60's.

With the 4Runner and Land Cruiser (which is rumored to be returning to its offroad roots instead of its foray with the valet crowd) up for redesign in my replacement timeframe, be nice to have some choices in the segment. Ford's made it clear (at least until we can see the actual execution/quality of the Bronco) that the segments up for grabs, a nameplate no longer ensures dominance.......

All good stuff for us.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

Don't disagree with most of your thoughts....... although an IFS in a Wrangler may be nearing sacrilege. Living in the upper Midwest, Ouray/Moab/Prescott/Phoenix are all 16+ hour trips one way for a few hours of trail time. No complaints once we're there, but the getting to/from has gotten long in the 2 door.

My '14 JK willl be up for replacement in a couple years. Was hoping Ford thought out the Bronco enough to bring FCA to the table during that time. Appears they're moving (scrambling??) towards a Bronco response sooner than anticipated.

Rubicon Wrangler Gets SRT Scat Pack Soul, Beefier Components

New Jeep Wrangler Rubicon gets new Dana 44s, new lockes, new transfer case and a hefty 450 horsepower to tie it all together.

www.jk-forum.com

Sounds enticing............if they actually build it. And until they price it in the $60's.

With the 4Runner and Land Cruiser (which is rumored to be returning to its offroad roots instead of its foray with the valet crowd) up for redesign in my replacement timeframe, be nice to have some choices in the segment. Ford's made it clear (at least until we can see the actual execution/quality of the Bronco) that the segments up for grabs, a nameplate no longer ensures dominance.......

All good stuff for us.

Stuffing a gas guzzling lump into the wrangler is NOT a response or an answer to the bronco.