Not sure I agree, but it's probably moot anyway as FCA has a habit of under delivering.
I'm still salavating over the Africa Edition of what, .......................2016?
I feel like an apple freak. It's bronco release day. Ha ha.
- Thread starter Autism Family Travels
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I'm still salavating over the Africa Edition of what, .......................2016?
Member III
Enthusiast III
Oh it's correct. Adding an engine that cuts the mileage in half is an awesome way to put a big nail in the wrangler coffin. What's the point of a 392 hemi in a wrangler. The same as the demon charger. Sps. They now have to retune the wrangler to drive much better on road while keeping it's off road chops. The aftermzrket has it dialled. Jeep just needs to give it to us off the showroom floor. Adding the griffin attunuator and falcon adjustable shocks make the wrangler drive as good as the grand Cherokee. However those parts cost money that fca will not spend.Not sure I agree, but it's probably moot anyway as FCA has a habit of under delivering.
I'm still salavating over the Africa Edition of what, .......................2016?
Oh, and you can make that Africa for cheap as chips. Minus the mini extension. The rest is parts readily available now.
Influencer II
The 5,7L truck hemi would be the right factory engine for the wrangler, or maybe a full aluminum V8 with just about 5L displacement like the 5,3 LT from GM.
But yes we all know it won't happen until they stretch the front.
Maybe some of you have heard that the inline 6cyl is coming back and we are going to see a 3.0L turbo so this is most likely what we will see in a future wrangler.
I absolutely believe we will never see ifs in the wrangler, it's basically the unique selling point of the wrangler, with ifs it would just be another suv. And honestly the geometry of a solid axle and its behavior in some types of terrain is to (positively) unique.
There is enough room in the market for 3 or 4 offroad vehicles in the same size.
Maybe someone will have the balls to build a full independent suspension offroader with really long wishbones and a system similar to the rego Rex system with 20" of travel...
Sorry if something is written a little bit unusual but I'm not natively speaking English, hope it still makes sense ;-)
But yes we all know it won't happen until they stretch the front.
Maybe some of you have heard that the inline 6cyl is coming back and we are going to see a 3.0L turbo so this is most likely what we will see in a future wrangler.
I absolutely believe we will never see ifs in the wrangler, it's basically the unique selling point of the wrangler, with ifs it would just be another suv. And honestly the geometry of a solid axle and its behavior in some types of terrain is to (positively) unique.
There is enough room in the market for 3 or 4 offroad vehicles in the same size.
Maybe someone will have the balls to build a full independent suspension offroader with really long wishbones and a system similar to the rego Rex system with 20" of travel...
Sorry if something is written a little bit unusual but I'm not natively speaking English, hope it still makes sense ;-)
Member III
You say this but FCA engineers admitted toying with the idea during JL development and it's a good business decision for the reason this thread got into SFA vs IFS... SFA is better off road than IFS but only for that top 5% and it comes at a cost for the bottom 95%.
Mark my words, if the Bronco starts stomping all over the Wrangler in sales, we'll likely see an IFS Wrangler (or possibly a chassis set up for both) in the next generation. There's probably 8-10 years to go and they've already sacrificed a lot - holding out the last little bit on principle is how you become a niche with small market share.
Enthusiast III
Maybe they will scoop up some aftermzrket goodies and make the sfa drive like it could on road, as I mentioned. The attenuator and falcon shocks make the jk and I'm sure the jl drive like the grand. It's that big of difference. I have experienced it personally. However, the bronco can do most everything the wrangler can off road and drive way better on road.
I'll just leave it at we agree to disagree on the V8 and that any Wrangler, regardless how modified, will drive as well on the road as a GC.
On the other hand, I'm all eyes as to the ease of building the Africa from shelf parts, even minus the extension behind the rear wheels and barn door rear hatch.
The single piece, extended height hardtop and diesel are readily available for the JK as well as cheap as chips?
Jeep Corporate misinformed me. Seriously, point me to the right suppliers/manufacturers that supply the needed modifications for a reasonable price and you'll have my many thanks.
Enthusiast III
Fine. You can source a Cummins for the jk no problem. I was talking about the roof, lift wheels etc. Smittybilt has the one piece safari roof. And yes, I have seen first hand the difference the attenuator and falcon shocks make to the ride and handling of the wrangler. I think he also had jks flex connects on there too. Either way it was night and day compared to a stock wrangler. This persons wife also has a gc as her daily too. So there was a direct comparison.
As for the v8, fca needs to can the hemi and make a fuel efficient v8. The 5.7 is a pig compared to Ford and gm v8. So the v6 or desiel is the best choice for the wrangler
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Member III
The 5.7L is ancient by modern engine standards. It's fundamentally the same as it was when I was wrenching for them 15 years ago and technology has advanced to an absurd degree in that time. It's like the Toyota 4.6L/5.7L except not as reliable (or at least wasn't when I worked on them).
At this point, I think Ford was smarter than anyone by latching on to turbo engines so long ago. Diesels clearly have the torque win but much like the SFA vs IFS argument, that's a very niche market of who needs that bottom end torque vs who needs torque at 2.5-3k in a light vehicle (big trucks clearly excluded). Ford's EcoBoost options give a ton of variety to pull from and by tuning the turbo size and cam profiles, they can make them do almost anything for the middle 90%
Influencer II
Anyone else find it odd that the bed bronco went with Bilstein shocks instead of fox? Does pretty heavy in the fox world with raptor.
You're correct here, price of mid to high $20's doesn't meet my definition of reasonable.
Was available for the 4 door for two years, no longer.
I put in a fair amount of research of cloning the Africa, including contacts with FCA, Bruiser Conversions (Cummings swap), among others. Threw in the towel once it was clear I'd be $70k plus.
No argument, but the Gladiator proves folks will buy cool over function/practicality. The majority of Rubicons as well. If less than 10% of Wranglers/Broncos/Land Cruisers ever see a trail, how will owners flash superiority? A Hemi badge will appeal as much as a 4"+ lift, 37's, "exclusive" editions, etc.
The Bronco may change the segment buyer's view on MPG. I missed it, did/does Ford feature the Bronco's MPG prominently in their marketing? I haven't seen any conversations on the topic.
Boostpowered
Rank VI
Member III
If that raptor has skidplates and rock sliders he won't be sitting at the side of the rock garden, neither would the guy with a bison or a Tacoma even. If that rock slide scenario is real a stock jeep likely won't be crossing either without heavy modifications or damage. If you would truly like an example of the lack of difference between the two look no further than king of the hammers race sfa and ifs are both run in that race and bout every year they go back and forth as to which one wins. Sfa does not dominate the race if it did no one would run ifs ever.
Enthusiast III
And the wrangler will be much farther than a little behind in the faster stuff. The raptor will have to wait or radio which way they are going at every fork in the road. The bronco has the high speed chops of the raptor and the crawling chops of the wrangler.
Member III
Yeah I'm not bashing my head against that brick wall again. Every reply has missed the point of what I'm saying and I'm tired of trying to find new ways to say it.
Influencer II
Just out of curiosity, if a engine was never sold in the US you can't legally use it even if it is sold elsewhere in the vehicle? I'm thinking about the European factory diesel engines from the jk.
You can write a pm if you want, the "Africa" theme already highjacked the thread.
By the way, this whole thing is down to bashing each other, so it has lost its sense...
Bronco is cool af, wrangler also.
Jeep was lazy now there's competition, deal with it.
Enthusiast III
I know exactly what you are saying. I am bashing my head against the same wall. The bronco will go ANYWHERE your jeep will stock for stock. Mod for mod. Simple. Not until you get into the 6" lift 40" tires will the jeep start to out "off road" the bronco. I know that reading this as a jeep owner must sting. But facts are facts. hell, it runs 35s stock, has a way better crawl ratio, better disco system and overall ground clearance. Stop being blind by the 7 slots. Jeep has some catching up to do now. Not resting on we are the only game in town.
Edit: just to add, the bronco is better in high speed off roading, on road driving, better gas milage, power, interior refinement overall layout and so on. JEEP needs to wake up.
Enthusiast III
Not just torque with deisel. it's range. It's all about range. look at the colly duramax. It gets better milage than my nissan micra did.
Member III
I'm a very recent first-time Jeep owner and a borderline Toyota fanboy so there's no need to take a cheap shot for that. I have no objections to IFS but you keep missing the point I keep repeating: I'm not talking stock for stock and I'm not talking balls-out, custom, one-off designs like KoH.
I'm talking what can be done lightly modified as most off roaders will do. Hardly anyone serious about this hobby leaves vehicles stock so there's little point in making that comparison when stock for stock is more a reflection of engineering decisions and compromises.
You can add significant articulation and wheel travel to a Jeep for a couple thousand dollars. Adding any significant articulation or wheel travel to an IFS vehicle without doing the fabrication yourself is damn near an $8-10k investment that sacrifices most of what makes an IFS great and can easily pay for a full coilover conversion on a Jeep that will net you 16" of wheel travel.
Yes, IFS is better on road. Yes, IFS can do 95% of what a SFA can do. Yes, IFS will be better than SFA at high-speed off road. There is 5% on the fast end where IFS excels and there's 5% on the crawly end where SFA excells. The difference is that the SFA can do that fast end at a slower speed and still get there. IFS positively cannot follow on that other 5% without massive investment and custom work. I've seen this time and time again and there's a reason Toyota guys do the SAS route when they want to play in the rocks.
Member III
Range doesn't save you much with a $5k entry fee and higher maintenance costs. If you want more range, carry more fuel because I guarantee the difference in weight between the 3.0D and 3.6L will cover more than enough gas to cover that difference.
