I feel like an apple freak. It's bronco release day. Ha ha.

[Autism Family Travels]

I'm a very recent first-time Jeep owner and a borderline Toyota fanboy so there's no need to take a cheap shot for that. I have no objections to IFS but you keep missing the point I keep repeating: I'm not talking stock for stock and I'm not talking balls-out, custom, one-off designs like KoH.

I'm talking what can be done lightly modified as most off roaders will do. Hardly anyone serious about this hobby leaves vehicles stock so there's little point in making that comparison when stock for stock is more a reflection of engineering decisions and compromises.

You can add significant articulation and wheel travel to a Jeep for a couple thousand dollars. Adding any significant articulation or wheel travel to an IFS vehicle without doing the fabrication yourself is damn near an $8-10k investment that sacrifices most of what makes an IFS great and can easily pay for a full coilover conversion on a Jeep that will net you 16" of wheel travel.

Yes, IFS is better on road. Yes, IFS can do 95% of what a SFA can do. Yes, IFS will be better than SFA at high-speed off road. There is 5% on the fast end where IFS excels and there's 5% on the crawly end where SFA excells. The difference is that the SFA can do that fast end at a slower speed and still get there. IFS positively cannot follow on that other 5% without massive investment and custom work. I've seen this time and time again and there's a reason Toyota guys do the SAS route when they want to play in the rocks.

Well i call it like I see it. and if your talking balls out KOH.....there is this so.......And besides. no one cares about KOH only a couple of people. thats not what we are discussing AT ALL. so your arguements are MOOT!

Ford Bronco R Race Truck Previews New Bronco | AutoTribute

The high-speed off-roader is the best preview yet of the production model. Ford has unveiled the Bronco R race truck, a purpose-built desert racing prototype that previews the new Bronco. It was developed to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Rod Hall and Larry Minor’s win at the 1969 Baja 1000...

www.autotribute.com

 

[Autism Family Travels]

for a larger pic.

 

[billum v2.0]

Just out of curiosity, if a engine was never sold in the US you can't legally use it even if it is sold elsewhere in the vehicle? I'm thinking about the European factory diesel engines from the jk.

I can't speak to swapping in the Euro spec'd diesel, led to believe no go (emissions compliance biggest issue). Didn't dig deeper.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

Range doesn't save you much with a $5k entry fee and higher maintenance costs. If you want more range, carry more fuel because I guarantee the difference in weight between the 3.0D and 3.6L will cover more than enough gas to cover that difference.

Yes it does count. If I could have longer range in my wrangler for 5k entry fee....consider it sold! As would many many more. More than would worry about taking a brand new wrangler and buiding it for a KOH rig. Speaking of wackadoodle entry fees.

 

[M Rose]

Anyone else find it odd that the bed bronco went with Bilstein shocks instead of fox? Does pretty heavy in the fox world with raptor.

Nope, Blistiens are the shock of choice on the 2nd through 5th gen Broncos. (If you were a Bronco Guy you would already know this). The Blistiens just plain work right out of the box, no tuning, no need to rebuild, they just plain work...

 

[AggieOE]

I know exactly what you are saying. I am bashing my head against the same wall. The bronco will go ANYWHERE your jeep will stock for stock. Mod for mod. Simple. Not until you get into the 6" lift 40" tires will the jeep start to out "off road" the bronco. I know that reading this as a jeep owner must sting. But facts are facts. hell, it runs 35s stock, has a way better crawl ratio, better disco system and overall ground clearance. Stop being blind by the 7 slots. Jeep has some catching up to do now. Not resting on we are the only game in town.

Edit: just to add, the bronco is better in high speed off roading, on road driving, better gas milage, power, interior refinement overall layout and so on. JEEP needs to wake up.

Their resumes are near identical. Debating that one is better than the other without an actual in-world comparison is possibly one of the most moot things to entertain... Even if some of us know everything and are humble enough to share our infinite wisdom with the world. We can all read a brochure.

Hopefully we'll see an apples to apples real-life comparison; Badlands on 33"s against a Rubicon on 33"s against a TRD Pro 4Runner on it's ~32"s. That would be a fun, clean across the table, comparison! I wonder if any other manufacturer will consider entering the playing field.

 

[Old Tanker]

Any word on what the payload capacity will be on the new Bronco? All the specs look great, but I wonder how much additional weight it can take.

 

[LostWoods]

Any word on what the payload capacity will be on the new Bronco? All the specs look great, but I wonder how much additional weight it can take.

There's a prelim spec sheet that was released and it's around the Wrangler... 1,170 for the 2dr and 1,370 for the 4dr. Question is at what equipment level that rating comes from. It's listed as "max payload" so that might be a lower trim level that will suffer as armor, big tires, and other things are added.

 

[LostWoods]

Just out of curiosity, if a engine was never sold in the US you can't legally use it even if it is sold elsewhere in the vehicle? I'm thinking about the European factory diesel engines from the jk.

You cannot generally do it legally unless you can find a US spec vehicle that had a similar config. There are places that will do it and the likelihood of ever getting caught is slim to none in a lot of places but if you live places that do actual smog inspection like CA, you'll never get it registered.

 

[Smileyshaun]

I wish people would quit saying ifs works so good in high speed because they use it in KOH ,Or bringing up KOH when we are talking about stock rigs that’s a way way wayyyyyy different setup and Their bumpstops alone are probably worth more then most of us spend on our whole suspension and the KOH version of your rig weighs probably 1/2 what it did off the factory floor so really it’s not a very good measuring tool .

 

[Autism Family Travels]

I wish people would quit saying ifs works so good in high speed because they use it in KOH ,Or bringing up KOH when we are talking about stock rigs that’s a way way wayyyyyy different setup and Their bumpstops alone are probably worth more then most of us spend on our whole suspension and the KOH version of your rig weighs probably 1/2 what it did off the factory floor so really it’s not a very good measuring tool .

Agreed. Comparing a vehicle using koh as a measuring stick is silly. That's like saying a Chevrolet corsica is better than a Honda civic becuase Chevrolet's have top fuel motors in drag rails.

I am stating that is is better in high speed off road situations, and on road becuase it is. It has nothing to do with the silly, mental gymnastics of bringing a 150,000 koh buggy into the equation.

 

[Waydescott]

Figured I would chime in. First off I think the Bronco is a great new addition to the family off road vehicles people can choose from. Second there is and will never be a clear winner nor one car take a significant sales margin from another. This is because it comes down to preference and what the end owner enjoys driving the most (Not what theoretically is supposed to drive or handle better). Most recently I have found myself comparing IFS vs SFA. I owned a 2017 Tacoma trd 4x4 and now I have Gladiator Rubicon. I got the Gladiator because I love the way Jeeps drive (personal preference), more rear seat room, better off roading visibility, and upgrades are very simple and cost effective. IMO SFA allows a more controlled and smoother slow speed and rock crawling experience. I hardly lift a wheel or tire in my Gladiator whereas on the Tacoma I was always lifting a wheel crossing rocks, ruts, ledges, etc. This affords me a much more comfortable and in control feeling while I am off roading. I think that is one of the biggest advantages of having a SFA. Having confidence allows you to relax and have a more enjoyable experience. My tacoma went everywhere I wanted it to go and always surprised me for being a IFS vehicle. I put almost twice the amount of money into my Tacoma suspension and would say that it was only marginally better at high speed off roading. I think that is due to it still being a fairly narrow vehicle. High speed off roading is significantly more demanding for it to be comfortable experience. Looking at the Bronco going through the whoops does not look enjoyable (it was bucking everywhere). With that being said and my personal experience I think the Bronco and the Jeep will each excel in different situations. Those who like IFS now have an option that can keep up with a Jeep, which is great.
I truly think the Toyota has a lot of work to do with the 4runner. The Bronco embarrasses it in many situations. I think Toyota has the engineering to be the build some of the best off roading vehicles. But they drag their feet on bringing that ingenuity to the market, sadly.

 

[LostWoods]

I truly think the Toyota has a lot of work to do with the 4runner. The Bronco embarrasses it in many situations. I think Toyota has the engineering to be the build some of the best off roading vehicles. But they drag their feet on bringing that ingenuity to the market, sadly.

Toyota is like Nintendo on this one compared to the other two fiercely competing. The Bronco will probably do 95% off road of what a Wrangler can do and the 4Runner can do probably 80%... that's still covering most of their target market and paired with Toyota's reliability reputation the other two lack, the 4Runner will still move units for anyone not looking for a serious off-roader. The 4Runner is still very capable and I'd argue those of us on this site who need more are very much in the minority.

Toyota is going to stick with their shared platform going forward and they might give it a bit more but it won't be anywhere near what the Bronco is when it also has to be shared with the GX to some degree.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

Again, don't kid yourself lost woods. Stock for stock the bronco will go further than the wrangler. Lower crawl ratio, more ground clearance, bigger tires. Please. stop the wrangler is GOD act.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

Nope, Blistiens are the shock of choice on the 2nd through 5th gen Broncos. (If you were a Bronco Guy you would already know this). The Blistiens just plain work right out of the box, no tuning, no need to rebuild, they just plain work...

No need to rebuild until they fail. The you have to buy a new one. Where as with rebuildable, just get it rebuilt for a fraction of the cost and be on your merry way. I have seen many bilstiens fail. More than other brands actually. I have sworn off bilstiens and move to other manufacturers because of carnage I have seen with bilstiens breaking in various places.

 

[Boppa's Travels]

Was a Ford guy (well guess I still am just drive a JKU now) but owned 2 Broncos in my early life both with 400s. I don't now why but both ended up with bent push rods. Don't know if that was a characteristics of the 400 or if I was just unlucky. Outside of engine troubles I sure enjoyed mine.

 

[M Rose]

Was a Ford guy (well guess I still am just drive a JKU now) but owned 2 Broncos in my early life both with 400s. I don't now why but both ended up with bent push rods. Don't know if that was a characteristics of the 400 or if I was just unlucky. Outside of engine troubles I sure enjoyed mine.

That’s a 400 problem... I would say out of all the 400’s I have rebuilt, 90% were bent pushrods...

 

[Boppa's Travels]

That’s a 400 problem... I would say out of all the 400’s I have rebuilt, 90% were bent pushrods...

I believe since I had 2. Crazy how Ford could build a junkie 400 and a bulletproof 289. But definitely loved the old Bronco platform just hated the engine.

 

[M Rose]

Yea the 400 wasn’t their best engine (Chevy 400 wasn’t great either... it was notorious for cracking the block between cylinders). The 289, 302, 351 were all great engines. And I agree the 2nd gen Broncos are a great platform. I would love me a 78 in Starburst.

 

[Boppa's Travels]

Both of mine were 78s. I was blue and white the second was black and grey.