Help get the word out

[Billiebob]

We do this to ourselves. Half the vehicles we use are advertised as Baja 1000 candidates and I have never seen a negative comment on those ads promoting this behavior. ALL the manufacturers do it. And half their customers do it often..... Someone asked what can we do..... the answer was enforcement lmao...... like there is an enforcement agency willing to focus on the idiots.... the idiots are those advertising, promoting off road racing and the manufacturers building the vehicles to do it..... You want change, kill the ads. Make the manufacturers build vehicle incapable of wheel spin...... limit horsepower LOL..... A 6.4 Hemi in a Wrangler is the stupidest idea ever.

But no, we are not serious about solving the problem, we just like to bang on the drum all day long.

 

[Desert Runner]

there are a lot of uneducated folk out there when it comes to this... and companies, not just auto manufacturers, are making it worse by seeing a cash cow and marketing the Great Outdoors to these people and making it into a cool and hipster thing to do. there are tv commercials now showing the chrysler pacifica as "van life" and how it even has a built in vacuum, etc. now i doubt the pacifica will be going offroad reaking havoc, but it is being promoted as "van life", which will have its own set of unique problems as those buying them will be trying to camp in walmart parking lots and leaving trash, getting buried driving on the beach, etc and creating more problems and conversely, more regulations. the really funny thing about that commercial is a young couple in the new pacifica van pulls up next to a grungy couple in an older van and the guy in the older van steps out holding a mason jar with a duct tape label with 'Kombucha' on it. they are actually shitting on the older established folk and promoting the younger crowd as more hip and more intelligent and that is why dumbasses like us are not going to be able to tell them anything...

as far as subaru goes...i like them. i owned 2 subaru Brats back in the 80s. i rolled one and crushed the cab and it still drove. very tough and well built machines.
HOWEVER...they are getting a stereotype now. step-daughter moved to Denver last year, dyed her hair blue and bought a Subaru.
it is now open season on subarea....

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A few years back while doing some pre production vehicle testing, my partner and I traveled thru the Midwest and into the NW, where we were able to observe many vehicle ownership choices. Trucks and cars in the Midwest dominated, where as we got closer to Denver, Suburu's became a dominant choice of car. We saw the same in even higher quantities thru Portland and Seattle municipalities. It was very noticeable. They the car maker, should emphasize their winter and wet handling abilities and not their off road/back country ability, as that just leads to people driving above their ability and issues like stated above where bad behavior and trashing from the inconsiderate cause issues for all.

PS'..... Just saw the Honda commercial where it is doing power slides .nd loops causing track scars and throwing copious amounts of dust in the air. All to show it's power and ability. Exactly the behavior we lament . I say that as the whole commercial looks like it takes part in the wild outdoors, and not in a road course or park/track setting.

 

[Corrie]

ATV/UTV/SXS as is illustrated by the video are the principal offenders, this audience constitutes "preaching to the choir ". You won't reach the knuckleheads doing this on this forum.

Preaching to the choir, yes - but a convicting sermon has to start somewhere. ;)

Maybe the OB founding principle of "it doesn't matter what you drive" should be amended to "it doesn't matter what you drive - but it does matter how you drive" followed up with trail etiquette and Tread Lightly requirements.

Great feedback. For context:
@Michael and I have said “…but it does matter where you drive it” from day one. It doesn’t matter what you drive came from Michael’s experience in 2010-2012 engaging in overland discussions online. (Exclusionary, dismissive, closed off to newcomers, etc.)

BTW - We recently talked with a major manufacturer about how important the imagery they create is and it was very well received. (You can figure out who it is by looking at our IG.)

But you’re right, we need to expand the visibility of “where you drive it” and move it forward in our messaging. I’ll take a look at the website today to see what I can knock out immediately.

 

[Ubiety]

Great feedback. For context:
@Michael and I have said “…but it does matter where you drive it” from day one. It doesn’t matter what you drive came from Michael’s experience in 2010-2012 engaging in overland discussions online. (Exclusionary, dismissive, closed off to newcomers, etc.)

BTW - We recently talked with a major manufacturer about how important the imagery they create is and it was very well received. (You can figure out who it is by looking at our IG.)

But you’re right, we need to expand the visibility of “where you drive it” and move it forward in our messaging. I’ll take a look at the website today to see what I can knock out immediately.

Awesome possum! Thank you @Corrie - please don't be shy letting us know what we can do to help! This issue has (obviously) been bugging me for a while; I'm ready to get involved.

 

[El-Dracho]

Great feedback. For context:
@Michael and I have said “…but it does matter where you drive it” from day one. It doesn’t matter what you drive came from Michael’s experience in 2010-2012 engaging in overland discussions online. (Exclusionary, dismissive, closed off to newcomers, etc.)

BTW - We recently talked with a major manufacturer about how important the imagery they create is and it was very well received. (You can figure out who it is by looking at our IG.)

But you’re right, we need to expand the visibility of “where you drive it” and move it forward in our messaging. I’ll take a look at the website today to see what I can knock out immediately.

Awesome. All good ideas here. Maybe it would be a good possibility to put the topics trail etiquette and Tread Lightly requirements right on the start page. Because there is a lot of what makes this great community and the functions of the forum and the app described and so on. How would it be to insert simply a textblock, for example, below "it doesn't matter what you drive", which is directed to just say that beside the adventure component it is absolutely important to take into account the nature, resource, environment, etc. And then you can refer to the Founding Principles. Just as an idea.

By the way, two things particularly appealed to me, which then brought me here to Overland Bound: the motto "it doesn't matter what you drive" as a countermovement to the otherwise usual always bigger, further, better in the scene and the motto "leave it better than you found it". Both are really put into practice in this great community here. Great.

 

[Corrie]

And please reach out to @Kent R for help/guidance. I'm going to put @Del Albright in this category, too.

Del has been fighting the good fight for decades and is a huge resource on all things "keep trails open". He was there to haul out an absurd amount of human waste when the Rubicon was in danger. He's a leader and a legend.

 

[Kent R]

FYI, @Del Albright and myself are involved with a movement to make some change to the side by side craziness. This started in CA but is gaining support across the US.
As we get more information we will keep our membership up to date.

 

[MOAK]

I gotta ask? What sort of changes are you seeking? Those guys are gonna ruin it for everyone. I'll stay tuned.

 

[Kent R]

I gotta ask? What sort of changes are you seeking? Those guys are gonna ruin it for everyone. I'll stay tuned.

Here are some of what is being discussed;

1. Mandatory UTV permit/licensing and responsible recreation online courses.
2. More enforcement (perhaps through grants?).
3. Better (and more) trail signage.
4. Industry engagement/involvement (dealer handouts?)
5. Volunteer trail patrols.
6. Peer pressure tactics.

 

[socal66]

I think at the end of the day the only effective approach would be substantial peer pressure and it will be quite an effort to get to that point.

Right now many public land areas differentiate between legal access for road registered vehicles vs. ATV’s and UTV’s. Mojave Preserve comes to mind where side-by-sides are prohibited. I think there needs to be the threat of substantial access closures for those specific types of vehicles to get industry players that stand to lose lots of revenue along with riders who would have a lot less recreation opportunities to start policing their own community and getting their folks in line.

From my observation pretty much all of those in the side-by-side crowd that don’t adhere to the rules won’t listen to us and many of those see their defiance as some sort of badge of honor within their peer group. I think we need to pursue a path of clearly disassociating our community with these people and if needed throwing their land access rights “under the bus” so to speak to save ours. I think they will only listen to those that lead within their community and those “leaders” will only man up and act if they feel that their party is coming to an end.

 

[Kent R]

I think at the end of the day the only effective approach would be substantial peer pressure and it will be quite an effort to get to that point.

Right now many public land areas differentiate between legal access for road registered vehicles vs. ATV’s and UTV’s. Mojave Preserve comes to mind where side-by-sides are prohibited. I think there needs to be the threat of substantial access closures for those specific types of vehicles to get industry players that stand to lose lots of revenue along with riders who would have a lot less recreation opportunities to start policing their own community and getting their folks in line.

From my observation pretty much all of those in the side-by-side crowd that don’t adhere to the rules won’t listen to us and many of those see their defiance as some sort of badge of honor within their peer group. I think we need to pursue a path of clearly disassociating our community with these people and if needed throwing their land access rights “under the bus” so to speak to save ours. I think they will only listen to those that lead within their community and those “leaders” will only man up and act if they feel that their party is coming to an end.

Its going to be a long go and yes education is one of the key components. One thing to remember is in the Mojave the illegal entry by ATV and UTV's is causing irreparable damage to the Soda Lake and the very west side of Kelso Dunes (both wilderness areas).

 

[MOAK]

We do this to ourselves. Half the vehicles we use are advertised as Baja 1000 candidates and I have never seen a negative comment on those ads promoting this behavior. ALL the manufacturers do it. And half their customers do it often..... Someone asked what can we do..... the answer was enforcement lmao...... like there is an enforcement agency willing to focus on the idiots.... the idiots are those advertising, promoting off road racing and the manufacturers building the vehicles to do it..... You want change, kill the ads. Make the manufacturers build vehicle incapable of wheel spin...... limit horsepower LOL..... A 6.4 Hemi in a Wrangler is the stupidest idea ever.

But no, we are not serious about solving the problem, we just like to bang on the drum all day long.

Well ya- enforcement. 20 years ago or so, the Northway, I-87 between Albany and the Canadian border was known for horrible fatal accidents. In that 180 mile stretch of interstate people were dying on a very regular basis. Bus loads: truckers, cars. Finally funding was approved and enforcement was stepped up. Today there are very few accidents and virtually zero fatalities per year. Why? How did it change? Funding. Now, and for the past 15 years or so, there are state troopers everywhere on the interstates in NY. You can’t drive 30 or 40 miles without seeing a trooper parked and observing traffic. So, imagine, if you can, more funding for the BLM, and the NFS used specifically to step up enforcement. I believe that we must stop aligning ourselves with one political party or the other. One party seeks to open up public lands to the corporate, the other seeks to preserve public lands by keeping the corporate and motorized vehicles out. Either of these ideologies win and we lose. Here in Pa I’m on a first name basis with managers of the Bald Eagle State Forest. No politics, just ideas on how to manage 200,000 acres with only 5 or 6 rangers. The single thing I hear the most? Vote for legislators that would increase our funding so we can hire more rangers to enforce existing rules. Otherwise, another gate will have to go up. Permits to wild camp here? Yes. Free of charge, but they have a need to know who, what, where & why. Being understaffed permits are the only way to keep track of who is misbehaving.