Heads up if you go larger tires

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old_man

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Just a heads up if you change tire size. Changing the tire size will change your speedo reading. You might get a speeding ticket when you think your are on the speed limit. Just in case, grab your GPS and have it give you a speed reading and correlate it to your speedo. In many vehicles you can change a small plastic gear in the transfer case. In newer vehicles you can actually change the programming in the ECU. It may also help your MPG by giving the ECU the correct speed to use in controlling the fuel. Worst case, they make a box to correct your speedo in some applications.
 

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Just a heads up if you change tire size. Changing the tire size will change your speedo reading. You might get a speeding ticket when you think your are on the speed limit. Just in case, grab your GPS and have it give you a speed reading and correlate it to your speedo. In many vehicles you can change a small plastic gear in the transfer case. In newer vehicles you can actually change the programming in the ECU. It may also help your MPG by giving the ECU the correct speed to use in controlling the fuel. Worst case, they make a box to correct your speedo in some applications.
In newer vehicles there is a way to do this with the Alpha OBD opp if you have a bluetooth adapter in your vehicle. I just googled "correct speedometer ram 2500" when I did mine and it was one of the first things that popped up on google. Took about 10 minutes to go through yhe whole process but worth it.
 

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In newer vehicles there is a way to do this with the Alpha OBD opp if you have a bluetooth adapter in your vehicle. I just googled "correct speedometer ram 2500" when I did mine and it was one of the first things that popped up on google. Took about 10 minutes to go through yhe whole process but worth it.
AlfaOBD is for FCA vehicles, which is great if you have one. :) For non-FCA vehicles it really depends on the vehicle. On the GM side of things, you can have tire/gear change compensation done as part of a custom ECM tune. I don't know about other manufacturers, but GM dealers will only correct for optional tire sizes offered by them, they can't/won't calibrate the speedo for random tire sizes.

For my GM truck I initially had the tire change compensated for as part of a custom engine tune, then I decided I didn't want to run a tune anymore so my only option was to install a Hypertech in-line speedometer calibrator. Not exactly cheap, but it works very well and was super easy to configure and install.
 
When I re-geared my 2013 Jeep the shift points were effected to the point that the transmission would go into limp mode. The Hypertech programmer will let you select gearing and tire size. Corrected my speed-o and shift points back to factory. There are times when computers make life simple. The Hypertech will read and clear codes, turn off low tire pressure light, increase engine speed for winching, etc..
 
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The ZAutomotive Tazer will allow you to re-program tire size for some vehicles (along with some other neat features). Using your GPS is a great way to verify your true speed; you should do a sampling at different speeds as the amount that the speedo will be off is dependent upon your vehicle speed (I believe, from experience). Also make sure that your GPS has "lock" on at least three satellites or you may suffer from some "interpretation" from the GPS trying to make due with less than optimal GPS "connectivity". Blah, blah, blah.
 

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You are probably not going to find it in an overlanding rig, but I recently read that there are some vehicles, BMW(?), that have lasers in the wheel wells that track tire size and automatically adjust the speedometer.
 
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You are probably not going to find it in an overlanding rig, but I recently read that there are some vehicles, BMW(?), that have lasers in the wheel wells that track tire size and automatically adjust the speedometer.
Cool but sounds expensive if it breaks.
No doubt. Dakota Digital makes a speedometer that is calibrated via GPS, but it is a little pricey.
 

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I recently read that there are some vehicles, BMW(?), that have lasers in the wheel wells that track tire size and automatically adjust the speedometer.
I would love to read that if you find it.
Not saying impossible because one of my balancing machines uses laser to measure tire. It scans the area of the tire from two directions which means two lasers. if the optics get dust on them, the computer isn't happy until I clean them. I could imagine what it would take for a vehicle to scan one tire let alone four from inside the fender well. If it does exist, doesn't mean it actually works. Automotive history is filled with failed technology. Some of it seems like great tech but the engineering was flawed and it turned into something that was a 1-2 year only option.

"Vehicle" or "Wheel" speed sensors are pretty much the go to for speedo and driveline calibration. This also includes ABS, crash detection.....anything else that needs speed signal.
Modern vehicles that use something along with wheel speed sensors, are using GPS or AGPS for calibration (AGPS is "assisted" GPS. Secondary calibration using cell towers). This signal is designated for mapping and self driving as well as crash detection. Because its there, if the software permits, can be used for other computers that rely on vehicle speed.

What all that means is, don't be surprised if you cause an issue trying to correct an out of calibration speedo on a modern car.
 

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The simplest solution is as OP suggests - the GPS gives you an accurate speed - it's better than adjusting the speedometer, which is never correct (except by chance) and the speed indicated will vary as the tyres wear anyway.
 

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The simplest solution is as OP suggests - the GPS gives you an accurate speed - it's better than adjusting the speedometer, which is never correct (except by chance) and the speed indicated will vary as the tyres wear anyway.
IMO tire size recalibration is preferable to GPS speed for the following reasons:
- If you run an automatic transmission you will want to recalibrate to get your shift points correct. Newer vehicles will also monitor and use "tire speed" for other computer decisions.
- Recalibration works in tunnels, heavy tree cover and other situations where a GPS might not.
- GPS speed is not always 100% accurate (so its a tossup).
- It might be an expensive and huge undertaking to replace the factory speedo with an aftermarket GPS driven speedo; especially on newer vehicles.
 

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The simplest solution is as OP suggests - the GPS gives you an accurate speed - it's better than adjusting the speedometer, which is never correct (except by chance) and the speed indicated will vary as the tyres wear anyway.
In addition to the above post from @Ubiety, I disagree with the statement that the speedo is "never correct" or that tire wear is going to make speedo calibration pointless. Let's say you run a 35" Wildpeak A/T3w that starts life with 19/32" tread depth (0.59") and you replace tires once they get to 2/32". That's a difference in 0.53" tread depth over the life of the tire or 1.06" change in diameter. That means that at freeway speeds you'll end up with an eventual 2MPH difference between new and when it's time to replace. Not a huge deal and is much less of a problem than if you don't calibrate *at all* and go from, say, a factory 32" tire to a 35" tire. That is an excessive change that will cause problems with shift points, etc. Similar to a large change due to regearing.

In addition to shift point concerns due to not calibrating for non-stock tire size there's also the potential for ABS to not work correctly, traction control to not work correctly, your odometer won't be logging the correct mileage, etc. Using GPS for speed via smartphone app or GPS unit should be considered temporary for the reasons mentioned in this thread.

With my non-stock tires and an inline speedometer calibration box my speedo is spot on with GPS-reported speed.
 

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Just go to this website:


Click on their tire size calculator and put in the current size, and the new size, and that should give you your differences.. Just memorize the numbers, and drive accordingly.
 
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I'm going to partially agree here with everyone and throw some numbers in myself. When people do the math on things like this, no one seems to bring up the tolerances (spec) the manufactures have. Speedo calibration was something I had to do at the dealership when we were able to calibrate them. This is mechanical speedos to early electronic. Before GPS I had to check speedos using mile markers. Most manufactures had a 3mph tolerance. Some manufactures have a 4mph. On the ones I calibrated, I could get .5 or better. From then until now we have to throw in ABS/traction control, fuel metering, trans shifting and crash prevention. Checking calibration now, I'm surprised if I see something as far out as .5mph with proper inflation and new tires.

Now we have modern. The software is designed to allow a pretty broad spec still. The main reason is, it doesn't matter what the side of the tire says, you can have the same size tires from diffrent manufactures be diffrent heights and widths. This can be as much as half an inch. Add in normal tolerance and you have two similar vehicles reading two diffrent speeds. We see this all the time with people arguing what tire is a "true" 33". Take the smaller of the two tires, wear it down and you have an inch difference at proper inflation.
Grab a tape measure and go measure section width on tires and look at what's advertised. That alone throws tire calculators out the window and should only be used for getting an idea not precision. All of this measuring/calculating are things I make my students do in lab.

If you want to really make your computers unhappy, have diffrent tire sizes at the same time. I've had ABS flag codes for diffrent brands of tire, on the same vehicle, with the same numbers. That means at 70mph, they were more than 3mph diffrent. Grab a scan tool, hit 70mph and look at the individual tire speeds your computer sees. Don't be surprised if you have 1mph difference or more on the same tires. ABS/Traction control has around a 5-7mph spec. This is not only due diffrent tire sizes but high speed corners. When you go around a corner, the outer tires go farther than the inner. You can have this system pretty far out of spec and still have no noticeable difference.

That aside, trans shifting wont be noticeably effected until you get away from the tolerance. Modern computers have a learning curve and will retune to a degree. Drive line load from the heavier/taller tire and RPM will make more difference here even if you recalibrate the speedo.

Crash detection not only uses speed but sonar/radar/Lidar to determine how fast your catching up the the vehicle in front of you. Again, more tolerances. Different brands of tires, compounds and weather conditions means it has to learn on the fly.

What does all this mean? Most people running around don't have accurate speedos. Tire manufacture, tread design and inflation make this true. If we go to larger tires, we should have our speedos close for speed and mileage as well as keeping it in the computers tolerance. Too far off and yes the computers wont work properly. If you run the math over 100k mileage you see a huge difference in what your odo shows and what you actually are.
 

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I suspect that I was not very clear. I'm suggesting that it's simpler to use the GPS to indicate speed, and NOT to do anything to connect the GPS output to the engine controls in any way - i.e., ignore the speedometer and use the GPS to show your speed.

re tyre wear - a 2 mi/h inaccuracy may mean the difference between a speeding ticket and no speeding ticket so I think it's useful to be aware of the impact of tyre wear (and diameter change) - the GPS ignores tyre diameter and tells you your actual speed.

In terms of accuracy, the GPS works as accurately as anything - certainly I am a lot more confident in what my GPS tells me than in the speedometer, which in recent experience with a variety of rental vehicles shows anything up to 10% difference from the GPS (legal requirements notwithstanding)...
 

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PS: we should be changing gear based on engine rev/min not indicated road speed.
Non-stock tire sizes are effectively the same as changing axle gear ratios, adaptive shift logic in modern transmissions takes engine RPM, engine load, TPPS (throttle pedal position sensor) and road speed into account. You thinking it should just be RPM-based is of no consequence since that is simply not how modern transmissions work, nor is it how hydraulically-controlled transmissions worked, either, as there was also the kickdown cable (throttle pedal position) as well as vacuum affecting the shift points.

Find an old GM vehicle with a TH350 or TH400, disconnect the kickdown cable, plug the vacuum hose to the transmission, and then tell me how you like shifting that is only based on RPMs. ;)
 
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PS: we should be changing gear based on engine rev/min not indicated road speed.
Even better, know the power band/curve for your engine and shift using the power band numbers. My stroker has a low rpm torque grind cam and the power drops off significantly above 4k rpms. I work to keep my rpms in the 2600-2800 range for best power and gas mileage. I get much better mileage at that range rather than trying to keep the rpm as low as possible. I run an AFR (air fuel ratio) gauge and when the rpms drop the ratio drops as well. As a bonus, it tells you a ton about how well your engine is running.
 
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Alanymarce

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I was probably oversimplifying my comments...

On a manual transmission I choose the point at which I change gear based on the engine characteristics and the power or torque I want to have available; rapid acceleration means holding onto a lower gear until cresting the power curve, "walking" over a rocky track means keeping the rev/min at the optimal torque point, and so on. I decide when to change gear.

In manual mode on an automatic transmission it's the same - yes I know that it's not identical however in practice I can choose what gear I want to be in.

In automatic mode it's essentially the same in terms of objectives (where do I want to be on the curve) however the throttle opening is used to pick the change point - for example, if I want to drop to a lower gear then opening the throttle will do this, for example. As Drax notes "adaptive shift logic in modern transmissions take" "engine RPM, engine load, TPPS (throttle pedal position sensor) and road speed into account" however the only one of these I control in terms of change point is throttle position. Obviously the maximum and minimum change points are chosen by the black box, however within this range I can decide where I want the change to happen. I don't claim to understand the electronics however my experience is that I can essentially pick the change point.

On a CVT box it gets more complex, however I can choose to wind up the engine for more power or back off for more torque in the same way.
 
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