Has overlanding become elitist ?

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Search Youtube for "Monty Python Four Yorkshiremen" and you will have the perfect example of elite minimalism. Just swap a few words like RTT for house, tent for cardboard box, trail mix for gravel... I am sure you will be able to recognize where you have seen such a perspective before.

I must have a thick skull. Monty Python video was humor to me. I didn't see any minimalism in the video unless it was the subject of their conversation which seemed to me was like no one was listening to the others story of hardship. Because I am old, have seen a lot, and been through a lot in my lifetime, does that make me a minimalist if I am engaged in a conversation with another old fart telling me his sad experiences in life and me telling him mine? Assuming we have both overcome those sad situations and proud of our accomplishments, is that elitism ?

My impression of the video was that all these guys had lived a shitty life at one time in their life. They were all accomplished individuals now and were trying to outdo each other with their sad stories and hardships to the extent they were exaggerating or enhancing their stories. Is that what you call elitism ? In other words If I tell you I killed my dog (it's true) and you come back and say yeah, I killed two dogs (it's a lie). That makes you a liar not an elitist.

I guess I just don't understand how conversation can be considered elitism or where the minimalist part comes in. My definition of a minimalist is someone who can do with less than others either by choice or by necessity. I think I fit that definition. My definition of the elite is someone who is considered as being the best or having the best of whatever you want to compare, usually requiring large sums of money, assets or pull. I am not that person, but I have worked for people who fit that classification. I see nothing wrong with being classified as such and I see no evil in being in that category. Elitism is someone who wishes to control you, your thoughts and your actions. The only way I could be compared to that is by being a father and parent and we use that as a means of educating our children. In the case of a parent I would rather call that leadership, but it is controlled. If you apply that to adults, it could be your boss who hires you to do a job in which he has control of everything you do on your job at his discretion.

I'm still trying to figure out why elitism is harmful to anyone who has a mind of their own. To me if a so called elitist tells me I should have this or that, it doesn't force me to do either, I take it as a suggestion and his opinion only. I think an elitist can only harm you if you allow him to harm you. That's not his fault, it would be your weakness and his strength. Seriously, as I almost always am, I may not like a person who has these controlling desires, but I can live with him and laugh at him when he spends $60,000 on his rig or his million dollar house, or his $5,000 business suits. I can do it because I know I cant, and I don't care that I cant have what he has. I shall not covet my neighbors goods has been my guidance on such matters. I don't expect others to follow my values and to that extent to each his own !

 

[Captstout]

I love this thread. I have been making excuses for my wife's 05 Pilot. We are upgrading in the next year or so to a 4 runner. But I should not be ashamed of using what we have.

Will the Pilot do a black diamond and make the women swoon? No. But it is paid off and owes me nothing.

I will be focusing on a good ground tent, good cooler/refrigeration, and vehicle repairs.

It took me forever to read all the posts on this thread.

One thing the Overland Bound community has taught me...just go. Use what you have, and go. There was a video with the guy(i can not remember his name), he had a stock Tacoma. Some used gear he found laying around. He used a phrase I have taken to heart he said: "I had it, so I used it."

So, I am going to Overland with the things I have and use them.

If people with built rigs laugh at me, so be it. I am out there for me and my wife.

 

[Captstout]

I must have a thick skull. Monty Python video was humor to me. I didn't see any minimalism in the video unless it was the subject of their conversation which seemed to me was like no one was listening to the others story of hardship. Because I am old, have seen a lot, and been through a lot in my lifetime, does that make me a minimalist if I am engaged in a conversation with another old fart telling me his sad experiences in life and me telling him mine? Assuming we have both overcome those sad situations and proud of our accomplishments, is that elitism ?

My impression of the video was that all these guys had lived a shitty life at one time in their life. They were all accomplished individuals now and were trying to outdo each other with their sad stories and hardships to the extent they were exaggerating or enhancing their stories. Is that what you call elitism ? In other words If I tell you I killed my dog (it's true) and you come back and say yeah, I killed two dogs (it's a lie). That makes you a liar not an elitist.

I guess I just don't understand how conversation can be considered elitism or where the minimalist part comes in. My definition of a minimalist is someone who can do with less than others either by choice or by necessity. I think I fit that definition. My definition of the elite is someone who is considered as being the best or having the best of whatever you want to compare, usually requiring large sums of money, assets or pull. I am not that person, but I have worked for people who fit that classification. I see nothing wrong with being classified as such and I see no evil in being in that category. Elitism is someone who wishes to control you, your thoughts and your actions. The only way I could be compared to that is by being a father and parent and we use that as a means of educating our children. In the case of a parent I would rather call that leadership, but it is controlled. If you apply that to adults, it could be your boss who hires you to do a job in which he has control of everything you do on your job at his discretion.

I'm still trying to figure out why elitism is harmful to anyone who has a mind of their own. To me if a so called elitist tells me I should have this or that, it doesn't force me to do either, I take it as a suggestion and his opinion only. I think an elitist can only harm you if you allow him to harm you. That's not his fault, it would be your weakness and his strength. Seriously, as I almost always am, I may not like a person who has these controlling desires, but I can live with him and laugh at him when he spends $60,000 on his rig or his million dollar house, or his $5,000 business suits. I can do it because I know I cant, and I don't care that I cant have what he has. I shall not covet my neighbors goods has been my guidance on such matters. I don't expect others to follow my values and to that extent to each his own !

Luber. Amen. Amen.

 

[MOAK]

How so, could you (or anyone here in this thread) give me an example of any elitist. I don't know how to define an elitist for lack of experience with the type of people in this hobby. I might be one and don't even realize it. Is it a bad thing and if so how, why ? I know what elite means and it has always been associated with the rich (exclusive), but is it bad to be rich ? Are the minimalist elite you know rich, poor or in between ? If being elite is not bad, why does it bother everyone ? Are we just jealous ? If being elite is good, then why do we complain about the elite ? I have no opinion as of yet myself !

Ha!! You’ve made my point, you get it.. there is no definitive definition of “elitist” . The minimalist I know lives in a 500 sq ft home out on 40 acres, raises his own food, is an Overlanders, drives a new 4Runner, has no television, and he’s a nuclear physicist. He has rejected the rat race. He is a minimalist.
All anyone has is a stereotype in their mind, and they seek out people to fulfill that stereotype, it’s all relative. A guy living in a box under a bridge sees everyone but himself as elitist. The entire question pondered by the original OP is elitist in and of itself. You certainly understand then that this is strictly from one elitist to another.. thank you. You should read by babbling in TT magazine..

 

[Anak]

I must have a thick skull. Monty Python video was humor to me. I didn't see any minimalism in the video unless it was the subject of their conversation which seemed to me was like no one was listening to the others story of hardship. Because I am old, have seen a lot, and been through a lot in my lifetime, does that make me a minimalist if I am engaged in a conversation with another old fart telling me his sad experiences in life and me telling him mine? Assuming we have both overcome those sad situations and proud of our accomplishments, is that elitism ?

My impression of the video was that all these guys had lived a shitty life at one time in their life. They were all accomplished individuals now and were trying to outdo each other with their sad stories and hardships to the extent they were exaggerating or enhancing their stories. Is that what you call elitism ? In other words If I tell you I killed my dog (it's true) and you come back and say yeah, I killed two dogs (it's a lie). That makes you a liar not an elitist.

I guess I just don't understand how conversation can be considered elitism or where the minimalist part comes in. My definition of a minimalist is someone who can do with less than others either by choice or by necessity. I think I fit that definition. My definition of the elite is someone who is considered as being the best or having the best of whatever you want to compare, usually requiring large sums of money, assets or pull. I am not that person, but I have worked for people who fit that classification. I see nothing wrong with being classified as such and I see no evil in being in that category. Elitism is someone who wishes to control you, your thoughts and your actions. The only way I could be compared to that is by being a father and parent and we use that as a means of educating our children. In the case of a parent I would rather call that leadership, but it is controlled. If you apply that to adults, it could be your boss who hires you to do a job in which he has control of everything you do on your job at his discretion.

I'm still trying to figure out why elitism is harmful to anyone who has a mind of their own. To me if a so called elitist tells me I should have this or that, it doesn't force me to do either, I take it as a suggestion and his opinion only. I think an elitist can only harm you if you allow him to harm you. That's not his fault, it would be your weakness and his strength. Seriously, as I almost always am, I may not like a person who has these controlling desires, but I can live with him and laugh at him when he spends $60,000 on his rig or his million dollar house, or his $5,000 business suits. I can do it because I know I cant, and I don't care that I cant have what he has. I shall not covet my neighbors goods has been my guidance on such matters. I don't expect others to follow my values and to that extent to each his own !

That most certainly should have come across as humor. Someone would be most disappointed if it were not recognized as such. But I still like the example. The essence of Four Yorkshiremen is that each claims to have started out worse off than his neighbor. The elite minimalist prides himself on getting by with less than his neighbor.

I think the ultimate minimalist was Diogenes. He lived in a barrel. For a while he also had a bowl to eat and drink from, but after watching a dog lapping up water he decided the bowl wasn't even necessary and discarded it.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I love this thread. I have been making excuses for my wife's 05 Pilot. We are upgrading in the next year or so to a 4 runner. But I should not be ashamed of using what we have.

Will the Pilot do a black diamond and make the women swoon? No. But it is paid off and owes me nothing.

I will be focusing on a good ground tent, good cooler/refrigeration, and vehicle repairs.

It took me forever to read all the posts on this thread.

One thing the Overland Bound community has taught me...just go. Use what you have, and go. There was a video with the guy(i can not remember his name), he had a stock Tacoma. Some used gear he found laying around. He used a phrase I have taken to heart he said: "I had it, so I used it."

So, I am going to Overland with the things I have and use them.

If people with built rigs laugh at me, so be it. I am out there for me and my wife.

HELL YES, everyone (almost) starts at the bottom like anything else and works up over time. I can remember me, the wife and 3 kids doing this in my old 56 Ford ranch wagon back in 1958. More fun than a barrel of monkeys for us all. We are all building all the time, it's never ending.

 

[DoubleA_FL]

The only criticism I have of you and your rig..... is that you shouldn't be embarrassed to be out there. My dad "overlands" in a 1998 camaro

I just picked up my first "overland" rig, its a 2000 LR Disco II, that so far, which includes 4 new tires, I think I have about $1500 into it, and I assure you none of that money was "upgrades"!!!

Already planning my first trip in November!

I spent my entire childhood "overlanding", which of course we called camping back then because we weren't cool, in my dads Isuzu trooper. That little, rusted out, 4-cylinder SUV was the coolest thing and I cherish those memories more than pretty much anything else in my childhood.

If your version of overlanding is driving your sedan to a national park and camping in a campsite a couple of times a year, then good on you, that's doing more than most of "those" people do with their crazy rigs.

My view on gear: if it doesn't allow you to go further, see more, or stay longer then you wasted your money.

I sure as hell don't have $80k to throw at a rig, shit, i dont have $40k to throw at a rig even if I spend the next 10yrs building it. But my youngest boy is approaching the age where I want to start taking both of them camping a lot and I'll be damned if my budget is going to keep me from those experiences with my boys.

Any hobby I have ever had (Photography, SCUBA, boats, guns....) has guys that can afford to spend almost no money and the ones that can afford to spend a million on it - and let me tell you, the guys with the little budgets are generally better at it and enjoy it a hell of a lot more. Boats, guns, photography... in general, just because you can afford good gear doesn't mean you know shit about what you are doing.

Get out there in your Buick, hell, I'll even bet you $1 that you could plan a "budget rig only" or "car only" or "2x4 only" trip on here and it would have some of the best turn-out!! It would kind of be like a "daily driver race day".... I bet it would be a hell of an event. i just hope you would let me show up in my outback since its the only car I own, hahahaha

 

[smritte]

I'll give an example of what I would call an "elitist".
Working a 4wd event, staging people at the bottom of a hill climb then having a guy dressed in a western business casual outfit with a very expensive "bought" Jeep, ask me why I let that type of vehicle in a run as hard as this is. He was referring to a group of actually well set up but slightly battered jeep with 20 somethings driving them. When I told him they had as much right to be here as he. He kinda huffed at me and walked away.
Most people only made it half way up the hill and had to be winched the rest. The Jerk made it most of the way. At this time I was close to the top. He points at me and says "HA" that's what a proper rig can do.
The 3 battered Jeeps and myself made it to the top. I was last. As I drove past him I said...see money cant make you a good driver, we made it...did you?.
He cut the trail ride short and headed back to camp in a huff...

I've worked 4wd events for decades. I really don't see many. where I did see them was in boats. The bigger boat always had the right of way. Then those guys found the sand dunes.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I'll give an example of what I would call an "elitist".
Working a 4wd event, staging people at the bottom of a hill climb then having a guy dressed in a western business casual outfit with a very expensive "bought" Jeep, ask me why I let that type of vehicle in a run as hard as this is. He was referring to a group of actually well set up but slightly battered jeep with 20 somethings driving them. When I told him they had as much right to be here as he. He kinda huffed at me and walked away.
Most people only made it half way up the hill and had to be winched the rest. The Jerk made it most of the way. At this time I was close to the top. He points at me and says "HA" that's what a proper rig can do.
The 3 battered Jeeps and myself made it to the top. I was last. As I drove past him I said...see money cant make you a good driver, we made it...did you?.
He cut the trail ride short and headed back to camp in a huff...

I've worked 4wd events for decades. I really don't see many. where I did see them was in boats. The bigger boat always had the right of way. Then those guys found the sand dunes.

II have a better name for people like him but I want to keep the thread language decent.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Well I know Jake and have wheeld with him hes got a lot into his setup not just jeep and his new one makes the entire point Moot. lol its epxensive because so many took to it.

Beg to pardon but it's expensive because of cooperate greed for the most part on the big ticket products. Secondly, when parts are made for specialty sports=hobbies or whatever you want to label it, the cost to manufacture is greater for a low volume item. Not just off roading goodies by everything that is low volume. But here is the hitch, there is enough used stuff on the market that everybody should be able to participate without grief. I would never use a daily driver to go rock crawling but it is fine for normal OB events. If you can afford to own a vehicle you can OB a great distance and have just as much fun as those who have much more expensive rigs. Who needs bragging rights, I don't. Thirdly, if you don't want to use your daily driver, don't. Buy a good running older vehicle on the cheap side and go with that. Used tires, used winches, used CB radios, used lockers are all available and very usable if you know where to look. The main thing is that it's a start if that is where your heart is. Nothing worthwhile comes easy as I see it. You'll find many like minded and like pocket books out here in OB land.

 

[Kilo_17]

In my town the "pavement queens" have been on the rise. Godly sized wheels, MT tires galore, LED lights bars, big lifts etc, etc.
I'm rolling my stock gen 1 xterra on AS tires and have gone to some places "rigs can't make it to". It's hard not to smile when I get to say, I've made it there.... ; )

 

[MidOH]

The only criticism I have of you and your rig..... is that you shouldn't be embarrassed to be out there. My dad "overlands" in a 1998 camaro

I just picked up my first "overland" rig, its a 2000 LR Disco II, that so far, which includes 4 new tires, I think I have about $1500 into it, and I assure you none of that money was "upgrades"!!!

Already planning my first trip in November!

I spent my entire childhood "overlanding", which of course we called camping back then because we weren't cool, in my dads Isuzu trooper. That little, rusted out, 4-cylinder SUV was the coolest thing and I cherish those memories more than pretty much anything else in my childhood.

If your version of overlanding is driving your sedan to a national park and camping in a campsite a couple of times a year, then good on you, that's doing more than most of "those" people do with their crazy rigs.

My view on gear: if it doesn't allow you to go further, see more, or stay longer then you wasted your money.

I sure as hell don't have $80k to throw at a rig, shit, i dont have $40k to throw at a rig even if I spend the next 10yrs building it. But my youngest boy is approaching the age where I want to start taking both of them camping a lot and I'll be damned if my budget is going to keep me from those experiences with my boys.

Any hobby I have ever had (Photography, SCUBA, boats, guns....) has guys that can afford to spend almost no money and the ones that can afford to spend a million on it - and let me tell you, the guys with the little budgets are generally better at it and enjoy it a hell of a lot more. Boats, guns, photography... in general, just because you can afford good gear doesn't mean you know shit about what you are doing.

Get out there in your Buick, hell, I'll even bet you $1 that you could plan a "budget rig only" or "car only" or "2x4 only" trip on here and it would have some of the best turn-out!! It would kind of be like a "daily driver race day".... I bet it would be a hell of an event. i just hope you would let me show up in my outback since its the only car I own, hahahaha

So far, the budget friendly, newb friendly, fullsize friendly, dirt road and beach mostly, overland group rides have been by far the most rewarding. Campgrounds were still off road most of the time, but even the state parks we hit were fun.

My interest in tight jeep trails is waning. High cost, low reward. Unless I have my Drz400 with me, but that's another topic.

At this point, I might even prefer '''dirt roads and boondocking''.

 

[Captstout]

So far, the budget friendly, newb friendly, fullsize friendly, dirt road and beach mostly, overland group rides have been by far the most rewarding. Campgrounds were still off-road most of the time, but even the state parks we hit were fun.

My interest in tight jeep trails is waning. High cost, low reward. Unless I have my Drz400 with me, but that's another topic.

At this point, I might even prefer '''dirt roads and boondocking''.

My wife and I have been talking about this subject a bit. She does like the technical jeep trails from time to time. But we are mostly happy with first roads, maybe a few obstacles, and boondocking.

Our little pilot had taken us quite a few places already. When we do get a new SUV it will be something a little more off-road worthy (4 runner re-use road more than likely).

There is plenty of things to see down a dirt road

Now to convince my wife we need to do the Dempster Highway.

 

[MOAK]

I'll give an example of what I would call an "elitist".
Working a 4wd event, staging people at the bottom of a hill climb then having a guy dressed in a western business casual outfit with a very expensive "bought" Jeep, ask me why I let that type of vehicle in a run as hard as this is. He was referring to a group of actually well set up but slightly battered jeep with 20 somethings driving them. When I told him they had as much right to be here as he. He kinda huffed at me and walked away.
Most people only made it half way up the hill and had to be winched the rest. The Jerk made it most of the way. At this time I was close to the top. He points at me and says "HA" that's what a proper rig can do.
The 3 battered Jeeps and myself made it to the top. I was last. As I drove past him I said...see money cant make you a good driver, we made it...did you?.
He cut the trail ride short and headed back to camp in a huff...

I've worked 4wd events for decades. I really don't see many. where I did see them was in boats. The bigger boat always had the right of way. Then those guys found the sand dunes.

Yup, we had one of those at our last event. The poor guy had at least 100k wrapped up in a 200 Landcruiser and all the gear. Nothing but whining about scratches and a failed battery system.. unbelievable !!

 

[DoubleA_FL]

I completely understand and appreciate this reply!

Although I will say that "boondock/boondocking" is a term that is new to me. anyone kind enough to elaborate?? is this like a "forgetaboutit" situation.... lol

AA

So far, the budget-friendly, newb friendly, fullsize friendly, dirt road and beach mostly, overland group rides have been by far the most rewarding. Campgrounds were still off road most of the time, but even the state parks we hit were fun.

My interest in tight jeep trails is waning. High cost, low reward. Unless I have my Drz400 with me, but that's another topic.

At this point, I might even prefer '''dirt roads and boondocking''.

 

[grubworm]

I completely understand and appreciate this reply!

Although I will say that "boondock/boondocking" is a term that is new to me. anyone kind enough to elaborate?? is this like a "forgetaboutit" situation.... lol

AA

it basically means primitive camping or dispersed camping...free camping with nothing but what you bring. no supplied water, electric and generally its not even a desiginated spot, just an area and you set up wherever. this is common on BLM land, like in NM

 

[Desert Runner]

I completely understand and appreciate this reply!

Although I will say that "boondock/boondocking" is a term that is new to me. anyone kind enough to elaborate?? is this like a "forgetaboutit" situation.... lol

AA

My interpretation of BOON-DOCKING is............Back country, BFE areas. Places that are off the mainstream, and isolated in their access. Limited in the amount of people who go/get there. .............aka........limited to little or no services.

EDIT: Grubworm beat me to it.

 

[Captstout]

What they said. All different terms, but they all mean "Camping". Lol

 

[grubworm]

In my town the "pavement queens" have been on the rise.

 

[Anak]

Some people even refer to camping in Walmart parking lots as "boondocking".

But they are not the elite.




As to the picture above....

Doggonit Grubworm. Have some mercy on the rest of us. Some things just can't be unseen.