Full Size vs Mid Size

[Jrodrigues1278]

A word of caution with modern diesel. Current models have a very complex and unreliable emissions system. Gone are the days of 500,000 mile light and medium duty diesels. Most engines life span has been effectively halved by the emissions equipment. Then there's the fact that the exhausts run up to 2400* during something called DPF regeneration, that's hot enough to start brush fires. Extended idling and babying will kill a modern diesel as well. Let it run for a minute or two then put it to work.
Just want you to be aware, modern diesels cost more, dont last as long, cost more to maintain, and are less reliable than a gas engine. But when it comes to carrying a load, there's still no substitute.

Good point as your just reminded me my exhaust on the power stroke was like 1800+ degrees. Makes complete sense that it would be a danger in wooded areas. I didn’t evan realize it. Thanks!

I am also concerned with diesel when traveling outside the US with it. Canada not so much, but anything south will be an issue with the type of diesel they use.

 

[Billiebob]

2. Family size and comfort is priority if I want them to come along.

yep, this changed my life too. 1990 we bought a '79 F250 Crewcab 4x4, and my wife had a Honda wagon. Gone were the Trans Ams and CJs. But it was a good sacrifice. Family First.

 

[Billiebob]

6. I am not against a trailer either, I love the Xventure XV2

Throw in a trailer and any full size SUV is the ticket. We almost did this but the deal on a clean 1 owner Crewcab was just too good. And this was when no one was buying them, lol, all the more reason to love them.

The best thing about a trailer is it is always ready to go. Hook up, buy groceries as you leave town, or arrive at your destination, done. Zero time to pack and if you get back late, drop the trailer and go to work. I LOVE a trailer.

And also, with a trailer you can park it, set up base camp and explore without any of the camping gear. Today if we had family I'd look at the Grand Cherokee.... or a 1980s Bronco.... but since you mentioned the JT, a JKU would fit right in with a trailer.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

@ChasingOurTrunks it’s like I am talking to myself ... lol

My original thought (and still top choice) was to throw either a PCOR Tray/Canopy or a RSI Smart Tray/Canopy. The PCOR would allow for the dog box. This is what I was imagining for my sons service dog, his own space. However heat/cold became the issue. Additionally for my son on long rides, he might need his buddy with him.

As for inside, the dog will have to go between the kids. I would love to get GSD but it looks like it will most likely be a Golden Retriever or something. I just don’t know how comfortable he is going to be all the time. My son is in a car seat and with new laws he maybe for a while so the ability to reach back from driver’s seat to him in rear passenger seat is important to me if it’s just us. Of course that the 40 in the 60/40 split on Gladiator and most trucks. So seat up if all 4 of us are in the car.

I live in NJ and the 1 thing I hated was parking both my DRW fords. Anywhere but my driveway, unless it was winter then I would drop one set of wheels on the snow pile and be done with it.

For work I have a new Silverado with the 5.5 bed, I can make it fit a lot of gear with just a cover. The Gladiator has a 5’ but the Power wager I believe has a 6.5 and/or 8’. I don’t recall.

As for the keys for daily, the Gladiator. Doors off and top off; there is nothing better. Evan in the occasional rain storm when you leave the stuff at home.

The interior of the power wagon benefits for the dog, kids, and the sick wife (that story some other time).

Cost is about the same but the power wagon I can get used but new they are about the same for a JTR and a Power Wagen. The accessories are about the same as well, more options for the Jeep of course. Power wagen may eliminate the need for a trailer down the road, or may not.

Trail wise, I am not scared of putting character into the paint. I would like to be able to do all or most of the trails in the US. South America and attic is something I would like to do in a decade or so. When my son is more like 15 rather then 5 years old.

And the conflict continues....

I love having the dogs in the cab too — ours aren’t service animals so the “need” isn’t as explicit, but at the end of the day it’s the people who join you on the adventures that matter most, both two and four legged. It sounds like you might be better served by the PW for your application — after all, the adventures are really all about the joy of those you share them with when you have a family. And If you want to head south in 10 years time, it may be time for a new vehicle by then anyway so you get to do this all over again. :D There’s no one “Do it all” rig, but there is usually a “Do most of what I want to do for now” rig, and the FS might be it.

You mentioned not liking the fords, but you may find that the Rams are a bit more nimble depending on the wheelbase which makes city living a lot easier. Some FS trucks (depending on cab size, wheel base, etc.) feel like you need to radio the nearest light house with your coordinates every time you want to change course — more like driving an aircraft carrier than a car! But others can be very nimble indeed.

I love the PCOR trays! They are a great blend of “Ute” versatility and utility, but they also look really good (As opposed to the unpainted aluminum more typical of a Ute tray - though the Norweld and Mits Alloy stand apart on that score as they still look really good) I hear you on the temperature thing though, that’s tricky. We have a 3-piece sliding window on cab rear window, and one of the things I thought of for a dog box was a way to vent cabin air into the dog box and insulate the dog box for that reason but I have not seen anyone execute something like that yet.

Realistically half the fun is in the process of figuring this stuff out! And what a good problem to have — you are having to choose between two excellent Overlanding platforms, in a market that hasn’t seen as many capable 4x4s at any other time in my life.

If you like your Silverado, and the Diesel option is holding you back from a Powerwagon, have you considered the Trail Boss or the GMC AT4 with the Duramax? TFL Truck on Youtube has a Trail Boss Long Term tester, and so far they have reviewed it very positively. Either the Trail Boss or AT4 would need a bit of an investment to get it to the level of the Powerwagon of course, but it might be a good compromise. Much closer to the PW in terms of factory options would be the Ford Superduty with the Tremor package, but that might be a bit too big. But here I go making it more conflicting on you!! We really are spoiled for choice in today’s market.

 

[Jrodrigues1278]

I love having the dogs in the cab too — ours aren’t service animals so the “need” isn’t as explicit, but at the end of the day it’s the people who join you on the adventures that matter most, both two and four legged. It sounds like you might be better served by the PW for your application — after all, the adventures are really all about the joy of those you share them with when you have a family. And If you want to head south in 10 years time, it may be time for a new vehicle by then anyway so you get to do this all over again. :D There’s no one “Do it all” rig, but there is usually a “Do most of what I want to do for now” rig, and the FS might be it.

You mentioned not liking the fords, but you may find that the Rams are a bit more nimble depending on the wheelbase which makes city living a lot easier. Some FS trucks (depending on cab size, wheel base, etc.) feel like you need to radio the nearest light house with your coordinates every time you want to change course — more like driving an aircraft carrier than a car! But others can be very nimble indeed.

I love the PCOR trays! They are a great blend of “Ute” versatility and utility, but they also look really good (As opposed to the unpainted aluminum more typical of a Ute tray - though the Norweld and Mits Alloy stand apart on that score as they still look really good) I hear you on the temperature thing though, that’s tricky. We have a 3-piece sliding window on cab rear window, and one of the things I thought of for a dog box was a way to vent cabin air into the dog box and insulate the dog box for that reason but I have not seen anyone execute something like that yet.

Realistically half the fun is in the process of figuring this stuff out! And what a good problem to have — you are having to choose between two excellent Overlanding platforms, in a market that hasn’t seen as many capable 4x4s at any other time in my life.

If you like your Silverado, and the Diesel option is holding you back from a Powerwagon, have you considered the Trail Boss or the GMC AT4 with the Duramax? TFL Truck on Youtube has a Trail Boss Long Term tester, and so far they have reviewed it very positively. Either the Trail Boss or AT4 would need a bit of an investment to get it to the level of the Powerwagon of course, but it might be a good compromise. Much closer to the PW in terms of factory options would be the Ford Superduty with the Tremor package, but that might be a bit too big. But here I go making it more conflicting on you!! We really are spoiled for choice in today’s market.

I get it that I won’t find a do it all rig, but I am gonna try lol.

I love the Ford SDs but they are large. I hate the experience I had with my last one after the turbos blew, dealer didn’t want to warranty it and then while trying to squeeze 10K out of me, went bankrupt and closed shop. That’s a campfire story for sure!

I have asked on here if anyone has the PCOR installed and also the RSI system installed but haven’t gotten a response. I priced out a PCOR for the Gladiator and it’s was like 30K. The RSI is half that but details are not out on water options, electrical etc... in order to compare apples to apples.

I happened to look at their site rite now and found this cap...


RSI Smart Cap cap, UTE and Canopy


I got to say I dig the look of this cap on it! I liked them for the Gladiator as well.

For the price of a PCOR I could get a fully loaded XV2 and have a base camp down the road.

I like my 2WD Silverado and I have had the family in it. A lot of room. I also recently had a Ram rental while in between work trucks due to accident, and had the family in it. They loved it plenty of room.



I am beginning to think a full size might be best. What limitations do you guys see in a full size?

 

[DevilDodge]

Full Figured RAM trucks.

Seat six, haul the kayaks and the bikes and the wood all with the bed cover on and a full size tool box.

Sorry, I am a bit biased as I have owned alot of Mopar trucks. They work the best for me.

Yes, you will not fit on atv trails and you may not squeeze everywhere a jeep does, but the comfort and ability allow me to be ok with not going everywhere. You do have to think a little more about where you are going and how to get back.

 

[Dilldog]

Good point as your just reminded me my exhaust on the power stroke was like 1800+ degrees. Makes complete sense that it would be a danger in wooded areas. I didn’t evan realize it. Thanks!

I am also concerned with diesel when traveling outside the US with it. Canada not so much, but anything south will be an issue with the type of diesel they use.

Yeah I'm not sure about diesel elsewhere either. If you run non ultra low sulfur fuel it can damage the after treatment.

 

[leeloo]

Good point as your just reminded me my exhaust on the power stroke was like 1800+ degrees. Makes complete sense that it would be a danger in wooded areas. I didn’t evan realize it. Thanks!

I am also concerned with diesel when traveling outside the US with it. Canada not so much, but anything south will be an issue with the type of diesel they use.

Low sulfur diesel is sold even across Africa, is not an issue. if the marine diesel now is low suphur, most refineries in the world make it.
I know someone who crossed Africa on the west route from Morocco to South Africa in a new 2018 Toyota Hilux Euro 6 2.4D diesel engine . The 2.4D from toyota sold in Africa is identical with the european one, except the emission system. The EU version has a catalyst, DPF and an Adblue system, i think in US it is called DEF ( they are the same ureea crap ) He had no issues. He carried reserves of Adblue with him, but to his surprise, it was available at all Landrover delearships in Africa.
For newer models usually the DPF is close to the engine to get heated by the exhaust easier, not sure but I think on the gladiator the dpf is not anymore under the vehicle, but inside or very close to the engine bay, so low risk of bush fires.
If you go outside US, the long range on one tank is a big advantage on remote places, no need carry arround spare fuel, which takes space used for something else. Or it can save the huge cost of installing a Long range fuel tank. Even inside US, I see people with hungry petrol engines have to carry spare fuel... and it is a at least inconvenient. inside the bed they smell, on top of the car is added weight in the wrong place..
Regarding the space outside the cab.. depends what you pack. That you know only after going on a few trips. Go a few week end trips in what ever vehicle you have now to figure it out a bit.
If your partner insists that she must have her 2 lbs body lotion bottle for a 3 day trip.. than even a full size truck might not be enough..

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I am beginning to think a full size might be best. What limitations do you guys see in a full size?

The only disadvantage of a full size that I can see is on the off road side, and it's minor in North America. The in-town nimbleness might be an issue where you live but the level of the issue is as you said — parking is a bit more of a pain in a couple of places but otherwise it’s fine.

You got me looking at Gladiators again. TFL Truck is doing a sweet Overland build of one right now and honestly it’s almost exactly how I’d spec it. And as I look at my kid (just a baby) I thought “this will make a great first 4x4” and I’ve got over a decade to wait for a good deal on the used market. As a Jeep guy myself, it’s hard to deny the “cool” factor of the Gladiator! Maybe you’ll do the same — PW for now, a used Gladiator down the road a piece - and we will end up bidding against each other! ;)

 

[Jrodrigues1278]

The only disadvantage of a full size that I can see is on the off road side, and it's minor in North America. The in-town nimbleness might be an issue where you live but the level of the issue is as you said — parking is a bit more of a pain in a couple of places but otherwise it’s fine.

You got me looking at Gladiators again. TFL Truck is doing a sweet Overland build of one right now and honestly it’s almost exactly how I’d spec it. And as I look at my kid (just a baby) I thought “this will make a great first 4x4” and I’ve got over a decade to wait for a good deal on the used market. As a Jeep guy myself, it’s hard to deny the “cool” factor of the Gladiator! Maybe you’ll do the same — PW for now, a used Gladiator down the road a piece - and we will end up bidding against each other! ;)

Yes TFL is building one, but also is the guy from Quadratec. He is building his personal Gladiator and posting videos on it.
It’s funny you say that, when the wife and I originally talked about the Gladiator, my intention was to have him wrench on it with me, introducing him (and I) to overlanding; with the final intention to give it to him when he became of age to drive it. God willing he could safely manage driving it being autistic. My thought the “comfort” factor of it being with him for so long, knowing the vehicle, would help him one day be able to drive it.

BECAUSE there is nothing like the doors off, top off, going down the trail, street, or highway. Convertibles don’t evan compare.

I do think you all have helped me decide that with the size of my family, the addition of the dog soon, with all the medical complications; full size is the way I need to go....

For now anyways!!!

 

[Jrodrigues1278]

Haha now to decide on which full size!!! Power Wagen is as close to a Rubicon, or is there something else?

 

[Raul B]

Haha now to decide on which full size!!! Power Wagen is as close to a Rubicon, or is there something else?

Check out the new superduty tremor.

 

[Billiebob]

Haha now to decide on which full size!!! Power Wagen is as close to a Rubicon, or is there something else?

yes, PowerWagon is the closest full size pickup to compare to the Rubicon. But pay attention to payload capacity. The PowerWagon might be a 2500 but it has a 1500 payload capacity. In order to get that great off road, articulating capability it loses half the 2500s payload capacity.

 

[Jrodrigues1278]

yes, PowerWagon is the closest full size pickup to compare to the Rubicon. But pay attention to payload capacity. The PowerWagon might be a 2500 but it has a 1500 payload capacity. In order to get that great off road, articulating capability it loses half the 2500s payload capacity.

It has the payload of a Gladiator. Which is where my dilemma comes full circle. The way I see it; trading a JTR smaller interior size for larger interior of PW; loosing small nimble form factor of JTR for larger PW. The bed is bigger in the PW, but the sunroof is small compared to the removab

tires, payload, lockers, sway bars, Basically all same.

I may have to look at other options....

 

[Jrodrigues1278]

Check out the new superduty tremor.

When I look at the Tremor, I want another DRW... it’s a great truck but it’s bigger then what I am looking for. I don’t need all the towing capacity anymore.

 

[MidOH]

Thanks everyone for the insight. The reasons I am having a tough time making a decision are:

1. Transferring from off-roading/rock crawling to overlanding. History points me towards wanting to able to manage all size trails.

2. Family size and comfort is priority if I want them to come along.

3. Being on the East coast, I have limited overlanding Vs the rest of the country. Travel will be necessary to get to many places. I want to eventually do the TAT, Baja, Arctic, South America and regions of Canada as my son grows up. So long on street rides are in the future and it’s one of the reasons I want a diesel.

4. Plan on using basics in the beginning, ground tent, etc for local trips as I understand what I want vs what I need. Especially when the family is involved and how many will continue to want to join me and son.

5. Not worried about trail rash on tighter trails to a point, as I would like it to be my DD when I am not in my work truck (Silverado).

6. I am not against a trailer either, I love the Xventure XV2


I am so conflicted lol

1. Then you know from experience that one size does not fit all. Get a F250 crewcab or Dodge 2500. Tow a beater jeep, if you want hit some jeep roads that lead to nowhere. All of my jeep trails are loops. Not exactly ''overlanding'', since they go nowhere. Lol.

2. Then F250 CC, Fx4, XLT, 7.3l gas, is most likely the best choice. Nicest family cab out there.

3. BS. You mention nothing that requires a diesel. I have a gas 6.2l Ford and Cummins in my driveway right now. The gas truck is better for ''overlanding''. A properly sprung and damped F350 can haul a camper while on 35'' tires all day long at 75mph. Fear overloaded half tons for hwy trips. If you don't need a DRW tow rig, avoid the new diesels at all cost.

4. And in the NE you'll eventually want a slide in camper or trailer. This ain't Utah. Make sure to buy enough truck to grow with.

5. Sorry that your work truck is a broken brand. Haha.

6. Also consider regular camping with regular trailers and campers. You can still squeeze some off roading in. My family is this \\ close to banning overlanding forever. Too much work, not enough pay off for the effort. Regular camping at a KOA campground within a short hop to some decent scuba diving is crushing all of our best overlanding. I think overlanding is down to #11 on our favorite vacation trips so far, and falling. The complete lack of destinations, maps, and such means that most overlanding days are kinda weak, give or take relaxing scenery.

A fullsize fits on the tat just fine.

And the Tremor is effectively the same size as the Power Wagon around here. What do you mean ''too big''? Any SRW Ford can be equipped with the rear Elocker. Then find an axle shop to quickly toss a Yukon Grizzly in the front axle. The front Dana60 is locker ready. No durability mods needed. Try to get 4.30 gears. You can always switch to 4.88 or such, if you only find deals on 3.73 trucks like I did. Just make sure that those deals are better than the $3000 dollar cost of gears.

If you go Ram, grease the front drive shaft religiously. I recommend adding the Yukon freespin hub kit, if it's still available. Then you can have hubs like the Ford.

I recommend a CC 250/2500 Ford or Dodge for the interior room. Add a front locker, improved Bilstein or Fox shocks, and 35" MT's and you have a very solid start. You don't really need a Tremor or PW package. You can ala carte these trucks.

Both of the off road packages are more of a ''yuppie trap package''. Watch your GVWR with those. If I was really going fullsize overlanding and a huge budget, I'd skip the foo foo packages and get a base model XL CC F550. Super single wheels with 40" tires. Detroit locker front and rear. And a perm mounted non-cabover camper box, say about 10' long. Tremors and 550's cost about the same. Ouch. My Ram was over $100,000.

Avoid the Ford moon roofs, adaptive steering, and any package fancier than XLT. The Fords new eboosted steering seems cool though. Comes with the useless trailer backing assist package, but that package also adds the cameras, which can be cool. Plow springs can be handy for winch bumpers. Make sure to get the skid plates.

 

[Wallygator]

The diesel has been ruined in the USA and if you don't need one for towing or hauling massive weight save your money. $10,000 buys years of gas. An yes it costs more to maintain a diesel than a gas motor. Also your modern diesel will be ruined if you want to travel south of the border.

Here is a recent post from a different forum. It's very hit or miss according to many but maybe things have changed? I"m not willing to take the chance and stick with gas motors. I love diesels but again, they have been ruined here in the US.

"We took our 2016 FordF350 down the Baja in February 2017. All fuel North of Lapaz was ULSD but south of there we acquired the high sulfur diesel and had to replace $2,000.00 worth of computers when we returned to the US. Just south Melege we started to get shut down notices from our engine. After running the engine hard we made it to the border but the computers were still toast and needed to be replaced. "

 

[Dilldog]

Low sulfur diesel is sold even across Africa, is not an issue. if the marine diesel now is low suphur, most refineries in the world make it.
I know someone who crossed Africa on the west route from Morocco to South Africa in a new 2018 Toyota Hilux Euro 6 2.4D diesel engine . The 2.4D from toyota sold in Africa is identical with the european one, except the emission system. The EU version has a catalyst, DPF and an Adblue system, i think in US it is called DEF ( they are the same ureea crap ) He had no issues. He carried reserves of Adblue with him, but to his surprise, it was available at all Landrover delearships in Africa.
For newer models usually the DPF is close to the engine to get heated by the exhaust easier, not sure but I think on the gladiator the dpf is not anymore under the vehicle, but inside or very close to the engine bay, so low risk of bush fires.
If you go outside US, the long range on one tank is a big advantage on remote places, no need carry arround spare fuel, which takes space used for something else. Or it can save the huge cost of installing a Long range fuel tank. Even inside US, I see people with hungry petrol engines have to carry spare fuel... and it is a at least inconvenient. inside the bed they smell, on top of the car is added weight in the wrong place..
Regarding the space outside the cab.. depends what you pack. That you know only after going on a few trips. Go a few week end trips in what ever vehicle you have now to figure it out a bit.
If your partner insists that she must have her 2 lbs body lotion bottle for a 3 day trip.. than even a full size truck might not be enough..

European diesel emissions are very different from North American, so it's hard to say an American spec truck would be good to go because a Euro spec truck was.

 

[Wallygator]

European diesel emissions are very different from North American, so it's hard to say an American spec truck would be good to go because a Euro spec truck was.

My bet is no, it would not.

Also there is a reason we don't have a lot of diesel options here in the USA like Europe does....for example... Toyota diesels, Ford Ranger diesel, Nissan diesels.... it's not because they wouldn't be popular.

 

[Dilldog]

The diesel has been ruined in the USA and if you don't need one for towing or hauling massive weight save your money. $10,000 buys years of gas. An yes it costs more to maintain a diesel than a gas motor. Also your modern diesel will be ruined if you want to travel south of the border.

Here is a recent post from a different forum. It's very hit or miss according to many but maybe things have changed? I"m not willing to take the chance.

"We took our 2016 FordF350 down the Baja in February 2017. All fuel North of Lapaz was ULSD but south of there we acquired the high sulfur diesel and had to replace $2,000.00 worth of computers when we returned to the US. Just south Melege we started to get shut down notices from our engine. After running the engine hard we made it to the border but the computers were still toast and needed to be replaced. "

Yup, unless I needed to haul everyday for a job you couldn't pay me to run a modern diesel. I really hope the engine manufacturers figure out a better way. But until then I'll pass...