OB Approved Camping with Firearms

[Winterpeg]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/11/dean-weingarten/two-more-bear-spray-failures-in-montana/

 

[AlysonH]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I was referring to snake shot cartridges for firearms. Kind of like having shotgun ammunition for a hand gun. Reason I asked is many times I go hiking/fishing in rattlesnake country and I wondered if snake shot is effective should you stumble across a poisonous snake while hiking.

Snake bite kits are an entirely different subject and as you point out, not effective.

My bad. I thought I saw "kit" somewhere. Lol.

 

[MOAK]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/11/dean-weingarten/two-more-bear-spray-failures-in-montana/

This publication really isn't much different than publications from the far left, such as "The Progressive" magazine. Each has a socio/politico agenda and each publication practices confirmation bias. I do my best to stay away from confirmation bias publications. Did this really happen? Well yes, it did, outside of Bozeman. Was the spray deployed properly? Was it "bear spray"? We don't know, we only know what the hunters have said, and everyone is prone to CYA, it's natural. I do know that 20 ft is darn close. Hmmm, fire off the bear spray, see that it isn't working, then have the time to get a perfect head shot off? as the bear is charging? I'll continue my research. Maybe one day, I'll find that I have "progressed" to the other side of this debate.

 

[Winterpeg]

This publication really isn't much different than publications from the far left, such as "The Progressive" magazine. Each has a socio/politico agenda and each publication practices confirmation bias. I do my best to stay away from confirmation bias publications. Did this really happen? Well yes, it did, outside of Bozeman. Was the spray deployed properly? Was it "bear spray"? We don't know, we only know what the hunters have said, and everyone is prone to CYA, it's natural. I do know that 20 ft is darn close. Hmmm, fire off the bear spray, see that it isn't working, then have the time to get a perfect head shot off? as the bear is charging? I'll continue my research. Maybe one day, I'll find that I have "progressed" to the other side of this debate.

It will be a good debate for us around a campfire if we ever find ourselves around one at the same time

 

[StormyWanderingWild]

I am definitely pro firearm, especially being a female in the wilderness alone. Just when I'd gotten too comfortable out there in the wild, I was driving down a dirt road a couple miles off the highway but not too far from a campground and bumped into a group of 4 people walking, they waved their arms to flag me down, I stopped of course to make sure there wasn't a need for help and they turned out to be super shady hitchhikers who were up to no good. That moment made me think, what if I'd already posted camp and they wandered in...never go empty handed.

 

[trikebubble]

We do what we can to make our campsite as uninteresting to those that live in the forests, common sense stuff like others have noted. All foodtuff, and cooking stuff is locked in the Xterra overnight, no food in the rtt overnight if we are in the mountains, etc.
The dogs both wear bear bells while in remote campsites, I have a bear banger (somewhere, need to find it, ha), and bear spray on hand too.

I also always (well when in Canada) carry "Plan B" with me (leaning against the tire in the pic below) when camping or hiking.


And, just as a reminder that their are 4 legged creatures out roaming around at night, someone was poking around and left these prints on the X last weekend during the night:

 

[gotricesmurf]

Great post, I always travel around (in state mostly) Texas with atleast a firearm, especially on camping trips. In the near future I will be heading out to Florida and this helped remind me of the state laws while crossing state lines, as I have my CHL in Texas and have to make sure each state I travel thru honors my CHL or requires I follow a different guideline.

 

[KyleGrant]

Great article Narbob. New member here, so I'm getting my feet wet around the forums - but this is a hot topic for me. I generally have a firearm on me or near me when out and about, for the protection of my wife, travel partners, friends, family and lastly myself. I appreciate the search and composing of info here. A key in my trip preparation is always focused on personal defense and safety, this is merely a tool to keep in the back pocket should a situation rise to that unfortunate level. I generally carry under the 2004 H.R. 218 "Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act" (LEOSA). This exempts active and retired LEOs from local and state prohibition of carrying concealed firearms. While I'm only a volunteer reserve, fortunately this H.R. does not distinguish a requirement to be full-time LEO. (https://www.fop.net/legislative/issues/hr218/hr218faq.pdf) I still get a tad nervous carrying on federal land and admittedly need to research those requirements further.

 

[aearles]

Great post, I always travel around (in state mostly) Texas with atleast a firearm, especially on camping trips. In the near future I will be heading out to Florida and this helped remind me of the state laws while crossing state lines, as I have my CHL in Texas and have to make sure each state I travel thru honors my CHL or requires I follow a different guideline.

I realize this is way late now, but check out the Legal Heat app for traveling with handguns.

 

[Narbob]

Great article Narbob. New member here, so I'm getting my feet wet around the forums - but this is a hot topic for me. I generally have a firearm on me or near me when out and about, for the protection of my wife, travel partners, friends, family and lastly myself. I appreciate the search and composing of info here. A key in my trip preparation is always focused on personal defense and safety, this is merely a tool to keep in the back pocket should a situation rise to that unfortunate level. I generally carry under the 2004 H.R. 218 "Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act" (LEOSA). This exempts active and retired LEOs from local and state prohibition of carrying concealed firearms. While I'm only a volunteer reserve, fortunately this H.R. does not distinguish a requirement to be full-time LEO. (https://www.fop.net/legislative/issues/hr218/hr218faq.pdf) I still get a tad nervous carrying on federal land and admittedly need to research those requirements further.

@KyleGrant Thanks for the feedback and welcome to OB. As a retired LEO I'm very familiar with HR 218. Something to know, HR 218 is only good if you also have an ID card from your agency that says you are authorized to carry, active or retired. If not, there's the old saying " Better to to tried by twelve then carried by six. "

 

[KyleGrant]

@KyleGrant Thanks for the feedback and welcome to OB. As a retired LEO I'm very familiar with HR 218. Something to know, HR 218 is only good if you also have an ID card from your agency that says you are authorized to carry, active or retired. If not, there's the old saying " Better to to tried by twelve then carried by six. "

Well firstly, thanks for the welcome - secondly, thanks for your service!

Very good point. I am issued a card with the verbiage "The holder of this card is a commissioned law enforcement officer and has statutory powers of arrest and is authorized to carry a firearm." Generally when I travel I keep a printed copy of HR 218 and this ID in a zip-loc bag easily accessible. I always make a point to conceal entirely and if I can't, my weapon is secured and only accessible by key. I never want to alarm anybody or alert them to the fact I'm armed, that isn't the point nor is it safe. Hopefully an issue never arises though I'd rather be mentally and physically equipped to handle such an issue (as a retired LEO you are keenly aware of). Part of my concept here is I don't travel armed to the teeth. I travel with what I perceive to be a reasonable amount of ammunition and firearms. If somebody were to be involved in a use of force who carried a long rifle, shotgun and a couple handguns with multiple magazines, etc. etc. versus a guy who carries a single stack Glock and a magazine or two - I'd like to think the public perception would not be the latter person is out to 'kill' or 'target'.

I'm a bit off discussion there, but good items for those who carry to keep in mind. Public or LEO perception (right wrong or indifferent of your intentions) these days can mean the difference between a good encounter, bad encounter or a crappy judgement by your peers.

And I completely agree, I'd rather explain to anybody the circumstances surrounding an incident rather than being six feet under.

I love the quote "Guns are a lot like parachutes, if you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again."

 

[Egan]

I am certainly not anti-gun. I own a shotgun and rifle(and four wheel drive - what do you know Hank Williams Jr wrote a song about me). I often carry them when I camp. By all means it is our Constitutional Right and I understand the ideology of protecting yourself and your family. However you are better off carrying insect repellent to protect yourself from wildlife than a gun. Insects kill more people in the US every year than all other wildlife combined. The reality of being killed by a predatory animal in North America is non existent.

Additionally in California there are no recorded or reported killings of humans by a black bear. Since 1875 there has been one documented killing of human by a bear, it was 2008 by a capitive brown bear. All the documented killings of humans previous to 1875 were by brown bears and we all know the fate of the California Grizzly, obviously the bears should fear humans and not the other way around. I have encounted many black bears in the wild, a matter fact I look forward to seeing a bear, it is exciting and exhilarating. Every single time I have seen a bear they have either not wanted to get close to me or ran when I have shouted at them. The only reason I mention this is because the thought of someone killing a bear out of fear is horrifying to me, in my opinion they are greatest symbol of wildlife in North America.

Average Number of Deaths per Year in the U.S. caused by animals:

Mosquito 106
Bee/Wasp 53
Dogs 31
Spider 6.5
Rattlesnake 5.5
Mountain lion 1
Shark 1
Alligator 0.3
Bear 0.5
Scorpion 0.5
Centipede 0.5
Elephant 0.25
Wolf 0.1
Horse 20
Bull 3

 

[Wawa Skittletits]

I am certainly not anti-gun. I own a shotgun and rifle(and four wheel drive - what do you know Hank Williams Jr wrote a song about me). I often carry them when I camp. By all means it is our Constitutional Right and I understand the ideology of protecting yourself and your family. However you are better off carrying insect repellent to protect yourself from wildlife than a gun. Insects kill more people in the US every year than all other wildlife combined. The reality of being killed by a predatory animal in North America is non existent.

Additionally in California there are no recorded or reported killings of humans by a black bear. Since 1875 there has been one documented killing of human by a bear, it was 2008 by a capitive brown bear. All the documented killings of humans previous to 1875 were by brown bears and we all know the fate of the California Grizzly, obviously the bears should fear humans and not the other way around. I have encounted many black bears in the wild, a matter fact I look forward to seeing a bear, it is exciting and exhilarating. Every single time I have seen a bear they have either not wanted to get close to me or ran when I have shouted at them. The only reason I mention this is because the thought of someone killing a bear out of fear is horrifying to me, in my opinion they are greatest symbol of wildlife in North America.

Average Number of Deaths per Year in the U.S. caused by animals:

Mosquito 106
Bee/Wasp 53
Dogs 31
Spider 6.5
Rattlesnake 5.5
Mountain lion 1
Shark 1
Alligator 0.3
Bear 0.5
Scorpion 0.5
Centipede 0.5
Elephant 0.25
Wolf 0.1
Horse 20
Bull 3

Hippos... I know why you didn't include them. Haha.

 

[Steve]

Just a general observation, and not pointed at anyone in particular: Please, lets avoid political and moral opinions in this thread.

Thanks, now back to the conversation.

 

[mep1811]

@KyleGrant Thanks for the feedback and welcome to OB. As a retired LEO I'm very familiar with HR 218. Something to know, HR 218 is only good if you also have an ID card from your agency that says you are authorized to carry, active or retired. If not, there's the old saying " Better to to tried by twelve then carried by six. "

https://www.fop.net/legislative/issues/hr218/hr218faq.pdf

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/leosa/leosa-frequently-asked-questions/

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20140511/hr-218-law-enforcement-officers-safety-act

You also have to be qualified ,by the State you live in ,yearly in order to carry.

In addition to carrying the photographic identification issued by the agency for which they were employed or were separated, the qualified retired law enforcement officer must also carry documentation which certifies that they have met, within the most recent twelve month period, the active duty law enforcement standards for qualification for a firearm of the same type as the one they intend to carry.

The standard the qualified retired law enforcement officer must meet is that of his former agency, that of the State in which he resides, or in the absence of State standards—or the recognition thereof—the standards of any law enforcement agency in the State in which the qualified retired law enforcement officer and the certified firearms instructor resides.


There are many States that offer Non-Resident CHL's that can cover most of the country.

Although I have a valid HR-218 card with current qualification and retired credentials I also have a Texas CHL and Arizona and Florida Non-Resident CHLs.

I like to have all my bases covered. My Florida CHL came in handy the other day as it exempted me from a three day wait on purchasing a long gun.

Hopefully this clears up some LEOSA questions.

 

[KyleGrant]

Indeed, for an active LEO we have to qualify yearly anyway - or we don't get to carry a badge. As for the qualification proof every year, carrying current credentials in Kansas makes it assumed you hold your current LEO certification from 40 hour continuing ed and your yearly CPOST qualifications. Our active credentials are different than our retired credentials, they're very strict that if somebody separates from an agency your credentials are recovered ASAP.

I do however still plan to complete my KS CHL, definitely a good point you make by covering all the bases - it definitely can't hurt!

 

[Big E]

Definitely read the laws before you go. They change frequently and you can get pinched . But, if it's concealed and your responsible it won't be a problem.

 

[SeguineJ]

Let me start by saying this is not a pro or anti- gun article. This is about responsibility, safety and a little about the law. As a person who mostly does solo camping in remote areas, I feel comfortable with a gun on or near me to deal with any predators whether they are animal or human. With over 30 years of training and handling various firearms, my preference will always be to diffuse a situation and find the quickest exit. This being said, a firearm may or may not be something you're comfortable with.

Being in California, I can only speak to our state laws. Since Overland Bound crosses many borders, I urge anyone interested in carrying a weapon to check their local and state laws; it’s only a Google away.

When transporting a concealable firearm [handgun] in a vehicle it MUST be kept unloaded in a locked container or vehicle trunk. This means stuffed between the seats, glove box or console is not legal. Anyone with a permit to carry a concealed weapon [CCW] is exempt. Long nonconcealable firearms such as unloaded shotguns and rifles are also exempt. Firearms ARE allowed on BLM land as well as most national parks. As of 2010 guns ARE allowed in all but 20 of the 392 national parks. Yellowstone, Grand Canyon Yosemite are part of the park system that allows firearms. Where they are NOT allowed is the visitor centers and the ranger stations. This is because firearms are not allowed in federal buildings. Also whether it's national forest or parks they mostly fall back on local state laws. However, National Forest land requires firearms be unloaded in a case. There are many exemptions regarding hunting season and too many to list here.

Every firearm should be thought of as a tool and not a toy. If you’re going to take on the responsibility of carrying a firearm there are many things to consider such as your familiarity and proficiency with the particular weapon you carry. If you have any doubts, you should visit one of the many public or private shooting ranges as well as gun stores for advice, many offer firearm safety courses.

Safety is the number one priority without question. Always know the condition of your firearm, is it loaded? [Always assume it is] Is the safety on or off? And most importantly, who’s around you? Always keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot and keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. If target practicing, know your background. If you’re in a campground or a location with other people and especially kids, keep you firearms locked away and secured. And of course never mix alcohol or drugs with firearms. This includes prescription medication that might alter you mental or physical well-being.

One non-lethal alternative that I highly recommend is pepper spray. This can legally be carried in all 50 states and I can say from experience, it’s very effective. One or two short bursts to the face of any animal or human and they will be at their knees and incapacitated. I can verify this by experience too.

Although I could go on, I’ll close this with know the laws of the location you’re in or traveling to and there’s no substitute for common sense.

I'm all game for someone preaching the truth. Safety first people and always follow the laws. Especially if this member badge is on your rig.

 

[Cavo]

Let me start by saying this is not a pro or anti- gun article. This is about responsibility, safety and a little about the law. As a person who mostly does solo camping in remote areas, I feel comfortable with a gun on or near me to deal with any predators whether they are animal or human. With over 30 years of training and handling various firearms, my preference will always be to diffuse a situation and find the quickest exit. This being said, a firearm may or may not be something you're comfortable with.

Being in California, I can only speak to our state laws. Since Overland Bound crosses many borders, I urge anyone interested in carrying a weapon to check their local and state laws; it’s only a Google away.

When transporting a concealable firearm [handgun] in a vehicle it MUST be kept unloaded in a locked container or vehicle trunk. This means stuffed between the seats, glove box or console is not legal. Anyone with a permit to carry a concealed weapon [CCW] is exempt. Long nonconcealable firearms such as unloaded shotguns and rifles are also exempt. Firearms ARE allowed on BLM land as well as most national parks. As of 2010 guns ARE allowed in all but 20 of the 392 national parks. Yellowstone, Grand Canyon Yosemite are part of the park system that allows firearms. Where they are NOT allowed is the visitor centers and the ranger stations. This is because firearms are not allowed in federal buildings. Also whether it's national forest or parks they mostly fall back on local state laws. However, National Forest land requires firearms be unloaded in a case. There are many exemptions regarding hunting season and too many to list here.

Every firearm should be thought of as a tool and not a toy. If you’re going to take on the responsibility of carrying a firearm there are many things to consider such as your familiarity and proficiency with the particular weapon you carry. If you have any doubts, you should visit one of the many public or private shooting ranges as well as gun stores for advice, many offer firearm safety courses.

Safety is the number one priority without question. Always know the condition of your firearm, is it loaded? [Always assume it is] Is the safety on or off? And most importantly, who’s around you? Always keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot and keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. If target practicing, know your background. If you’re in a campground or a location with other people and especially kids, keep you firearms locked away and secured. And of course never mix alcohol or drugs with firearms. This includes prescription medication that might alter you mental or physical well-being.

One non-lethal alternative that I highly recommend is pepper spray. This can legally be carried in all 50 states and I can say from experience, it’s very effective. One or two short bursts to the face of any animal or human and they will be at their knees and incapacitated. I can verify this by experience too.

Although I could go on, I’ll close this with know the laws of the location you’re in or traveling to and there’s no substitute for common sense.

I have been in the military, yet I have become TOTALLY against guns. We can not be a civilization and have things that have one reason, to kill things. However, if all gun owners were as conscious and understanding as you, I could climb on board. Basically, thank you for a great write up. We need more people that have guns to think similarly.

 

[MarleneMiranda]

It is not allowed to use weapons in many of the forest areas. Better to find some other safety options.