4runner payload paradox

[Mikeblack]

it is not for everyone's wallet, but nobody should knock it because they cant afford it. i believe having the icon stage 7 system on my 4runner is adding to the longevity of my 4runner. it is such a difference in my off road experience my wife loves to go out with me. i'm 59 and plan on having this for the rest of my life for exploring, fishing, hunting and anything in between!

With everything comes at price for entry but I will start small and build my way up. The most efficient way of doing things see what you need and start from there. Trying to set us smart and sell it Foundation. Also I hear they just released the stage 8 configuration from icon but trying to figure out what is the benefit and what it offers that improves upon the stage 7

 

[WrightRunner]

With everything comes at price for entry but I will start small and build my way up. The most efficient way of doing things see what you need and start from there. Trying to set us smart and sell it Foundation. Also I hear they just released the stage 8 configuration from icon but trying to figure out what is the benefit and what it offers that improves upon the stage 7

I think the stage 8 gets into more hi speed off road type use. Jumping and such.

 

[Mikeblack]

I think the stage 8 gets into more hi speed off road type use. Jumping and such.

could that also relate to hi impact coming down a trail on the decline angle at speed faster than crawl. Just factoring in a above heavy vehicle weight moving at speed.

 

[WrightRunner]

could that also relate to hi impact coming down a trail on the decline angle at speed faster than crawl. Just factoring in a above heavy vehicle weight moving at speed.

I am not 100% sure but stage 8 may just include duel shocks up front, and hydraulic bump stops in back.

 

[Wallygator]

I know nothing about that! I would be sure of saying something like that before I posted it! Just like if someone's dad was a child molester the kids shouldn't be blamed for it!

The facts are there for anyone to read and a lot of people do not know about it. That is by design as you would not want that info out and about because it would obviously cost you business.

I was upfront about not knowing if he is still involved with the company. An the company probably will not give out that info as they have obviously distanced themselves from what happened. I mean they completely changed the name of the company.

Again, your mileage may vary and I could care less where you spend your money or how you feel about it. I however will not support them. Ever.

 

[zcostilla]

Don't go too far past the max GVW. Once you do you start having to look to brake's, trans cooling and bearings. Fortunately, Toyota slightly overkill's these areas.

Unless it’s a 3rd Gen 4Runner (like mine). Fortunately the 1st gen Tundra brake calipers bolt on with the same pattern. It’s one of the first upgrades most people do with those old 3rd gens.

 

[leeloo]

Suspension is the last thing you do, after you have everything else is dialed in.
After you start going out a bit you will determine wath is a "must have" and "nice to have " for example - must have recovery points - nice to have a warm shower
Consider the weight of everything. Lets say you really want a winch . To mount it you can get a bullbar or a much lighter winch mount that only requires a cut out on your factory bumber. A bull bar looks cool and can help with approach angles. But its main function is to protect the vehicle from impact with big animals. So in Australia where you hit often a kangaroo, it is a must, but in US/ Europe not so much.
RTT - a hard shell is worth it, because of the comfort, ease of setup , wind and rain noise.
Most of the soft shell RTT have very long setup time, specially folding them and suffer from the same things as a normal tent, except they are not the ground so you sleep ona completly flat surface. . You can get a swag who is just as fast as a hardshell RTT. and leave you bedding in. A 2 person swag is 20 KG maximum a 2 person RTT rarely under 55 kg, who will sit in the worse possible spot - up top.
So take your time, build you equipment.. when you think you have it all, go to a weight bridge, check you ground clearance with your vehicle fully loaded for a trip, and with this data go to specialist to advise you on what suspension to buy.
Like many people mentioned, you can get some springs to GO over GVM, but there are very few things you can do for the tranny or the other mechanical bits.

 

[smritte]

Unless it’s a 3rd Gen 4Runner (like mine). Fortunately the 1st gen Tundra brake calipers bolt on with the same pattern. It’s one of the first upgrades most people do with those old 3rd gens

Toyota runs a very good caliper. Their one of the few that run a fixed caliper on the front regularly but what I'm referring to here is not the caliper. The more weight you add, the more heat you generate. The rotors have a rating in BTU's (amount of heat). Regardless of the caliper, if you cant mitigate the heat, you fatigue the rotor and cause fade. Changing to a bigger caliper/pad combo gives you more friction. This means you require less force to stop. This does not change the rotor BTU rating.The amount BTU generated, is directly related to weight and tire size. The taller the tire the the more leverage it puts on the brake system and the more force it takes to stop. The only way to properly control this is running a taller and/or thicker rotor. When this is not possible you run a higher grade of pad/rotor.
My personal preference are StopTech products. They have a commercial line of of pads I like and I run their standard rotors. "

You would be surprised how easy it is to over tax a braking system without modding the vehicle.

 

[zcostilla]

Toyota runs a very good caliper. Their one of the few that run a fixed caliper on the front regularly but what I'm referring to here is not the caliper. The more weight you add, the more heat you generate. The rotors have a rating in BTU's (amount of heat). Regardless of the caliper, if you cant mitigate the heat, you fatigue the rotor and cause fade. Changing to a bigger caliper/pad combo gives you more friction. This means you require less force to stop. This does not change the rotor BTU rating.The amount BTU generated, is directly related to weight and tire size. The taller the tire the the more leverage it puts on the brake system and the more force it takes to stop. The only way to properly control this is running a taller and/or thicker rotor. When this is not possible you run a higher grade of pad/rotor.
My personal preference are StopTech products. They have a commercial line of of pads I like and I run their standard rotors. "

You would be surprised how easy it is to over tax a braking system without modding the vehicle.

Good info. Upgrading to the calipers is only part of the equation. Thankfully, the 1st gen Tundra rotors are beefier, with thicker metal and a much wider ventilation gap between them to keep them cooler. This was something that causes the 3rd gen 4Runner rotors to warp with even moderate street use if you have to slam the brakes one time (happened to me to avoid an accident).

I went with R1 rotors and pads in the TuNora specs, but if these don’t hold up well, I’ll look for the StopTech set. Thanks for that tip!

 

[WrightRunner]

Toyota runs a very good caliper. Their one of the few that run a fixed caliper on the front regularly but what I'm referring to here is not the caliper. The more weight you add, the more heat you generate. The rotors have a rating in BTU's (amount of heat). Regardless of the caliper, if you cant mitigate the heat, you fatigue the rotor and cause fade. Changing to a bigger caliper/pad combo gives you more friction. This means you require less force to stop. This does not change the rotor BTU rating.The amount BTU generated, is directly related to weight and tire size. The taller the tire the the more leverage it puts on the brake system and the more force it takes to stop. The only way to properly control this is running a taller and/or thicker rotor. When this is not possible you run a higher grade of pad/rotor.
My personal preference are StopTech products. They have a commercial line of of pads I like and I run their standard rotors. "

You would be surprised how easy it is to over tax a braking system without modding the vehicle.

Thanks Scott!

 

[smritte]

Good info. Upgrading to the calipers is only part of the equation. Thankfully, the 1st gen Tundra rotors are beefier, with thicker metal and a much wider ventilation gap between them to keep them cooler. This was something that causes the 3rd gen 4Runner rotors to warp with even moderate street use if you have to slam the brakes one time (happened to me to avoid an accident).

I went with R1 rotors and pads in the TuNora specs, but if these don’t hold up well, I’ll look for the StopTech set. Thanks for that tip!

Even though I have never run R1 rotors, I've heard good things about them. The key is getting a high zinc rotor. The better manufactures run a real good grade of cast iron and a large amount of zinc. When you have stress cracking, hot spots......its normally a poorly made rotor or a good rotor your over taxed. The rotors on my TJ were horrible. because of the weight and tire size, it wasn't unusual for me to have them running so hot they were cherry red to orange when mountain driving. One of the issues we can run into during slow driving, especially down hill is severe over heating. Rotors cool off with airflow. Slow downhill or rocks where we drag the brake, creates heat we cant dissipate because we have no airflow. Now you boil brake fluid and fade real bad.

 

[leeloo]

Even though I have never run R1 rotors, I've heard good things about them. The key is getting a high zinc rotor. The better manufactures run a real good grade of cast iron and a large amount of zinc. When you have stress cracking, hot spots......its normally a poorly made rotor or a good rotor your over taxed. The rotors on my TJ were horrible. because of the weight and tire size, it wasn't unusual for me to have them running so hot they were cherry red to orange when mountain driving. One of the issues we can run into during slow driving, especially down hill is severe over heating. Rotors cool off with airflow. Slow downhill or rocks where we drag the brake, creates heat we cant dissipate because we have no airflow. Now you boil brake fluid and fade real bad.

Low range engine brake maybe could be more useful?

 

[zcostilla]

Low range engine brake maybe could be more useful?

Yes! Another lesson I learned the hard way. The first set of warped rotors happened when my son owned the truck. I bought it from him, and took it off roading twice. The last time was just last weekend. Definitely had a lot of brake fade after underestimating how long and how steep a descent was while driving in 4-high. I thought about pulling over and switching once I realized it, but by then I was concerned about the brakes holding while I was in neutral.

I had already pulled the Tundra calipers for the swap by then, but this convinced my wife and I we needed to speed up the process, and we ordered the R1 rotors and pads that night. As a bonus she also told me to get a lift and bigger tires soon so we wouldn’t high-center uphill again. Glad gravity worked in my favor and after a 10-ft roll back we were fine and ready to try again (took 4 tries though).

 

[leeloo]

That kind of abuse no upgrade will help.
I had break fading on an subaru forester, but I was overloaded , automatic with no low range. I was at very low speed, I stopped completely, waited 20 min for the breaks to cool off and went on again.
if you have low range, should be used always downhill.

 

[zcostilla]

That kind of abuse no upgrade will help.
I had break fading on an subaru forester, but I was overloaded , automatic with no low range. I was at very low speed, I stopped completely, waited 20 min for the breaks to cool off and went on again.
if you have low range, should be used always downhill.

Completely agree. It the first set of warped rotors was just a hard stop because some guy cut my son off (I was in the passenger seat). Again, the tundra rotors are before, with much better center ventilation gap between each side plate. This will help in the daily driving. And I’ve learned my lesson about descents... always go on 4-Low. I know better, I just didn’t apply it that time.

I did most of my off-road training in a HMMWV, and we would let her cost down hills in 4-low with no problems. Of course, when the motor pool mechanics are the ones fixing your vehicles and you never learn how much it actually costs, you don’t exactly drive it the same way...

 

[smritte]

Low range engine brake maybe could be more useful?

none with automatic trans

 

[smritte]

if you have low range, should be used always downhill.

I was up in Panamint Valley with a group driving a couple mile slight downhill. I started smelling brakes when one of the guys in front of me jumped on the radio and said his pedal went to the floor. about 10 mph ish and it took about a mile of him dragging his brake in high range to accomplish this. Another part of the equation is changing brake fluid regularly. His problem was two fold. Should have been in low range and his brake fluid was old. Brake fluid absorbs moisture over time and it boiling point drops. Because he didnt have enough air flow and old fluid he vaporized the fluid at the calipers. We waited about 30 mins for them to cool and they were fine.

 

[leeloo]

none with automatic trans

Had a Landcruiser prado automatic, with low range. It works fine even with automatic gearboxes if you have low range. My current rig is a Toyota Hilux, also automatic, with low range. No issues so far.

 

[zcostilla]

I was up in Panamint Valley with a group driving a couple mile slight downhill. I started smelling brakes when one of the guys in front of my jumped on the radio and said his pedal went to the floor. about 10 mph ish and it took about a mile of him dragging his brake in high range to accomplish this. Another part of the equation is changing brake fluid regularly. His problem was two fold. Should have been in low range and his brake fluid was old. Brake fluid absorbs moisture over time and it boiling point drops. Because he didnt have enough air flow and old fluid he vaporized the fluid at the calipers. We waited about 30 mins for them to cool and they were fine.

Good call on flushing brake fluid regularly. I’m doing this with my caliper/rotor upgrades.

 

[Brett L.]

Good call on flushing brake fluid regularly. I’m doing this with my caliper/rotor upgrades.

I'm curious how "regularly" equates to miles. I'm not a mechanic but I like the idea of my brakes functioning correctly at all times! How often do you guys flush your brake fluid?