2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Build

[Tuck1562]

Quick question...would upgrading shocks improve the Rough Country 4" lift ??...trying to get most out of it with out springing for a entirely new lift. I am currently waiting on hidden bumper winch and will add rock sliders after. one final question, running GMRS for comms, looking for antenna suggestions?
Peace

 

[tjZ06]

Quick question...would upgrading shocks improve the Rough Country 4" lift ??...trying to get most out of it with out springing for a entirely new lift. I am currently waiting on hidden bumper winch and will add rock sliders after. one final question, running GMRS for comms, looking for antenna suggestions?
Peace

What hidden bumper winch did you find?

-TJ

 

[Roebe1]

Quick question...would upgrading shocks improve the Rough Country 4" lift ??...trying to get most out of it with out springing for a entirely new lift. I am currently waiting on hidden bumper winch and will add rock sliders after. one final question, running GMRS for comms, looking for antenna suggestions?
Peace

Get the bilstein 5100s. I started with a 4" rough country lift and then upgraded the components peice by peice to make it what I wanted. The shocks that come with that kit are basically dump truck shocks so no real give, plus the spring rate on the springs are not as good, as say.. Rubicon express, so you gotta make up for that in the shocks. Still lots of work to-do but so far my adventures have been greatly improved due to just that shock upgrade.

 

[Tuck1562]

What hidden bumper winch did you find?

-TJ

Looked at the HK , comes with or with out shackle tabs, placed an order for the one with tabs, thought price was decent, under 500 with shipping. placed an order, but haven't heard anything after order confirmation. I liked the idea I would be able to keep stock bumper, not a huge fan of adding all that weight to front. I believe this will serve purpose for type of traveling I plan to do. Now looking for reasonable rock sliders. Planning to build my own roof rack this winter..if all goes well will have pics down the road.
Thanks

 

[Tuck1562]

Looked at the HK , comes with or with out shackle tabs, placed an order for the one with tabs, thought price was decent, under 500 with shipping. placed an order, but haven't heard anything after order confirmation. I liked the idea I would be able to keep stock bumper, not a huge fan of adding all that weight to front. I believe this will serve purpose for type of traveling I plan to do. Now looking for reasonable rock sliders. Planning to build my own roof rack this winter..if all goes well will have pics down the road.
Thanks

WJ Hidden Winch Mounts

Hidden winch mounts built by HK Offroad for the Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ - 1999 to 2004 models.

www.hkoffroad.com

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

Get the bilstein 5100s. I started with a 4" rough country lift and then upgraded the components peice by peice to make it what I wanted. The shocks that come with that kit are basically dump truck shocks so no real give, plus the spring rate on the springs are not as good, as say.. Rubicon express, so you gotta make up for that in the shocks. Still lots of work to-do but so far my adventures have been greatly improved due to just that shock upgrade.View attachment 125730View attachment 125731

second on the 5100's. They're good quality. I have about 15k-20k on mine with OME HD springs. I would have gone Fox if the cost was justifiable.

 

[tjZ06]

WJ Hidden Winch Mounts

Hidden winch mounts built by HK Offroad for the Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ - 1999 to 2004 models.

www.hkoffroad.com

Thanks a ton! I'm really going to have to consider this option - I really like the look and agree on not adding the weight.

-TJ

 

[Tuck1562]

second on the 5100's. They're good quality. I have about 15k-20k on mine with OME HD springs. I would have gone Fox if the cost was justifiable.

Thanks ..ordered a set of the 5100s...should be here tomorrow..will let all know my thoughts once installed.
Not sure if I ask, but did this help at all with death wobble?

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

Thanks ..ordered a set of the 5100s...should be here tomorrow..will let all know my thoughts once installed.
Not sure if I ask, but did this help at all with death wobble?

I never experienced the death wobble, but shocks shouldn't have any positive or negative effect on death wobble. That is all from the steering setup. If the wheels/tires are in good shape and in balance, I would start looking at the ball joints, tie rod ends, steering stabilizer, etc. as any play or slack will cause the death wobble. An alignment would also be something to consider.

 

[tjZ06]

I never experienced the death wobble, but shocks shouldn't have any positive or negative effect on death wobble. That is all from the steering setup. If the wheels/tires are in good shape and in balance, I would start looking at the ball joints, tie rod ends, steering stabilizer, etc. as any play or slack will cause the death wobble. An alignment would also be something to consider.

Trackbar (bushings) are usually a main contributor in death-wobble.

-TJ

 

[Roebe1]

Thanks ..ordered a set of the 5100s...should be here tomorrow..will let all know my thoughts once installed.
Not sure if I ask, but did this help at all with death wobble?

You need to get a longer track bar. I have a semi adjustable one that eliminates the death wobble. Now I will be honest here say that mine was quite knarly so I have happy to have a professional look at it and for $1000 he adjusted my thrust angle in the rear axle, replaced all my tie rods, and slapped on that new track bar and aligned everything all around, and she cruised like a dream. Worth it for shear peace of mind to spend some doe if your coming up stumped. Just make sure you trust your mechanic.

 

[Tuck1562]

You need to get a longer track bar. I have a semi adjustable one that eliminates the death wobble. Now I will be honest here say that mine was quite knarly so I have happy to have a professional look at it and for $1000 he adjusted my thrust angle in the rear axle, replaced all my tie rods, and slapped on that new track bar and aligned everything all around, and she cruised like a dream. Worth it for shear peace of mind to spend some doe if your coming up stumped. Just make sure you trust your mechanic.

Thanks ..I had replaced that (Rusty's) prior to getting new shocks, was a little better, but not gone. Just had Bilsteins installed today. Did a couple of laps on by pass at 70 mph, no issues. Normally transition between road surface and bridge surface would cause the issue, depending on angle and bump at transition. I did not feel any of the jarring in the steering wheel and no sign of any wobble or vibration. Hoping this will take care of issue, but either way the Bilsteins are providing a great ride. If issue returns, I will try ball joints...after that a "For Sale" sign

 

[tjZ06]

We caught the Jeep going low on coolant. It's been raining a lot, so we weren't able to confirm if it was leaking or not, so we were actually worried it was consuming coolant.

I went ahead and did a combustion gas test on the cooling system, and it came back negative. Now, these tests don't give you a 110% a clean bill of health, really they can give you a for sure you're effed, but not so much a for sure you're okay. That said, the test fluid didn't change colors in the slightest, and there's no smoke out the exhaust or anything like that, and most importantly the motor never got hot. Based on that, and hopeful it's just a cooling system leak I decided to pressure test the system. Sho-nuff as soon as I put 18psi to the cooling system it started to piss out from somewhere in radiator-land. With the hydraulic cooling fan and everything on these later 4.7 HO WJs it's super-hard to see exactly where it's coming form, but 9 times out of 10 one of the plastic end tanks is leaking (or both, I had fluid on both sides).

Now is the time to do anything up at the front of the motor or behind the grill/bumper area since it basically all has to come apart to do the radiator. A few of the big items I wanted to knock out were a winch and going to e-fans. So, I went ahead and ordered up:

• Radiator - went with an all-AL replacement radiator (no more plastic end-tanks) for a '99-00. They are slightly taller and the hydraulic cooling fan shroud needs modified to make them work... well, since I'm going to e-fans this isn't a big deal. I really would have liked the nice Griffin Racing radiator for this thing, but I couldn't justify a $900 radiator.
• Derale PWM Powerpack dual fan kit w/ shroud and controller - some more on this later
• '99-00 4.7 V8 JGC power steering pump and high pressure hose - needed for eliminating the hydraulic fans
• Mopar water pump and gasket
• Just about every other wear item or parts that potentially fail that I could think of - radiator hoses, heater hoses, belt, t-stat housing, t-stat (180* - more about that later), belt tensioner and pulley, idler pulley, all of the other power steering hoses, even the hose-clamps for the radiator hoses

Then there are the upgrades I ordered:

• Ebayed some factory tow hooks (non-chrome) - this particular Jeep didn't have the tow hooks, surprisingly tow hooks are sort of rare on WJs. My blue one has them, but they're chrome and for $60 on Ebay it's hardly worth pulling them off the blue one for this one.
• HK Offroad WJ Winch Mount - I went back and forth on just stepping up to a real bumper at this point, but decided for now to keep the budget somewhat under control, and I actually like the look of hte stock bumper with a winch
• Smittybuilt X20 10k winch w/ synthetic line - no particular reason I went Smittybuilt, mostly this just had a good price going and will fit the mount and everything I got. I think it's the previous gen model, so it seemed like the best combo of power, features, quality etc. compared to price. Again, I'm trying not to end up with the world's most expensive WJ
• Some HIDs for the lows, and I actually had some LED bulbs sitting around for the highs - might as well get these in while the headlight housings are out (yes, you have to get them out to do the rad). I'll polish the housings up too, but they're actually in spectacularly good shape for a Jeep of this age
• Finally ordered a matching spare wheel/tire - yes, I'm a jackass and haven't had a proper spare for this thing, which is especially troublesome because of the Vari-Lok diffs that you'll burn up with miss-matched tire sizes

This is the fan setup:



The controller is a nice piece with soft-starting and variable speeds based on demand. It also has an over-ride option and of course an AC-trigger. I went round and round about going this route vs. maybe sending the bad radiator down to LRS to have him custom fab a shroud or something, but ultimately went for simplicity.

The core of the radiator is 23-3/4 x 21-15/16 while the fan shroud is 22 1/2 x 19. So, yes I'll end up with just over 1" of uncovered core width, and nearly 3" of uncovered core height. That's not ideal, I know. Still, the large majority of the radiator will be covered and these fans pull 3750 CFM (which about the same as the vaunted Taurus e-fans) so I really think it'll be fine. Also, I got a 180* t-stat. There is a lot of debate about t-stats on the Jeep forums, people talk about running the engine "too cold." However, I looked into the PCM the WJ uses, and it actually uses the pre-cat o2s to determine open/closed loop. It starts going closed loop once it's getting a valid reading. By all accounts that's way before 180 degrees, and there is nothing in the PCM that would cause it to stay in open-loop, cold-start-enrichment anywhere remotely close to 180.

To be clear: I know a cooler t-stat will not cure overheating issues. However, we've never actually had any problem with overheating with this WJ (or the Blue one for that matter). However, the factory 195 degree t-stat and the logic used to control the solenoid on the hydraulic cooling system tends to make these jeeps run 210-215 at all times. That's really not too bad, and nearly all newer vehicles run like that. Of course, the 4.7 is spe-shul and heat is the number one cause of them dropping a valve seat. My intent w/ the 180 t-stat and the e-fans is to try to keep the operating range more like 180-195, as opposed to trying to fix some sort of overheating issue.



Anyway, I am curious as to everybody's thoughts on whether or not having the shroud slightly under-sized is going to present problems. I could still cancel that order, or keep the fans and controller and have LRS fab up a new shroud. I really think it'll be fine... but would like to hear what y'all think.

-TJ

 

[JimBill]

Anyway, I am curious as to everybody's thoughts on whether or not having the shroud slightly under-sized is going to present problems. I could still cancel that order, or keep the fans and controller and have LRS fab up a new shroud. I really think it'll be fine... but would like to hear what y'all think.

-TJ

No, the smaller shroud will not hurt in itself. The important thing is to get the shroud to mate with the radiator core, with no gaps. You want all the airflow to pull through the core. Rubber gasket material , even door seal, works like a champ on the edges of the shroud. You will loose out the little bit of exposed radiator, but a sealed shroud will cool excellent if the radiator surface it is pulling through is enough.
How challenging that will be I don't know, I have not torn mine apart for my cooling mod. But will be soon, I need it done before White Rim Road and Moab in April. I have most parts, but still need the fan controller, power steering pump, and high pressure line.
Also something to consider- when the hydraulic fan is removed, you can install a small power steering cooler off a 99-00 and use it, and free the BIG hydraulic cooler to be used for the transmission. It's on my list of things to check out when I have my front end apart.

 

[tjZ06]

No, the smaller shroud will not hurt in itself. The important thing is to get the shroud to mate with the radiator core, with no gaps. You want all the airflow to pull through the core. Rubber gasket material , even door seal, works like a champ on the edges of the shroud. You will loose out the little bit of exposed radiator, but a sealed shroud will cool excellent if the radiator surface it is pulling through is enough.
How challenging that will be I don't know, I have not torn mine apart for my cooling mod. But will be soon, I need it done before White Rim Road and Moab in April. I have most parts, but still need the fan controller, power steering pump, and high pressure line.
Also something to consider- when the hydraulic fan is removed, you can install a small power steering cooler off a 99-00 and use it, and free the BIG hydraulic cooler to be ued for the transmission. It's on my list of things to check out when I have my front end apart.

Yeah, I will for sure be using something to ensure the shroud is fully sealed against the radiator core. As you said, it's necessary to make sure air goes through, not around. Besides that, it also protects the radiator when things get to flexing and moving like they will even with the best mounts.

Hmmm, hadn't though about re-purposing the PS cooler. I think I'll have a look at it all when I get it apart and see what I really want to do.

-TJ

 

[JimBill]

Anyway, I am curious as to everybody's thoughts on whether or not having the shroud slightly under-sized is going to present problems. I could still cancel that order, or keep the fans and controller and have LRS fab up a new shroud. I really think it'll be fine... but would like to hear what y'all think.

-TJ

No, the smaller shroud will not hurt in itself. The important thing is to get the shroud to mate with the radiator core, with no gaps. You want all the airflow to pull through the core. Rubber gasket material , even door seal, works like a champ on the edges of the shroud. You will loose out the little bit of exposed radiator, but a sealed shroud will cool excellent if the radiator surface it is pulling through is enough.
How challenging that will be I don't know, I have not torn mine apart for my cooling mod. But I will be soon, I need it done before White Rim Road and Moab in April. I have most parts, but still need the fan controller, power steering pump, and high pressure line.
Also something to consider- when the hydraulic fan is removed, you can install a small power steering cooler off a 99-00 and use it, and free the BIG hydraulic cooler to be used for the transmission. It's on my list of things to check out when I have my front end apart.

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

Save the old hydro system in the even someone else would need it since parts seem to be hard to come by. I have kept mine running just fine thankfully with regular PS system flushes. Thought I was plagued with the overheating issue on my way back from Expo West this year, but it turned out to be the radiator was starting to take a dump. Gummed up no doubt since it was the factory radiator and the PO did not run the right coolant in it. Replaced the tstat as the same time I replaced the leaking rad and weeping water pump ( not at the same time, but within about a week of each other as parts started to fail). I had my mechanic flush the cooling system prior to the water pump and rad going out, as well as a new rad cap. I think you're hitting this issue head on. It sucks that these engines are so touchy with overheating since the system keeps them running warmer than I'm used to. I've almost gotten to the point to where I'd want to run reflective tape throughout the engine bay and install a hood louver to aid in the air flow. But my WJ is running just fine now. It may go to my daily once I get my next rig or I might sell it unfortunately. Either way, glad you're addressing it BEFORE it becomes a problem. Might also help with a bit better performance.

 

[tjZ06]

Save the old hydro system in the even someone else would need it since parts seem to be hard to come by. I have kept mine running just fine thankfully with regular PS system flushes. Thought I was plagued with the overheating issue on my way back from Expo West this year, but it turned out to be the radiator was starting to take a dump. Gummed up no doubt since it was the factory radiator and the PO did not run the right coolant in it. Replaced the tstat as the same time I replaced the leaking rad and weeping water pump ( not at the same time, but within about a week of each other as parts started to fail). I had my mechanic flush the cooling system prior to the water pump and rad going out, as well as a new rad cap. I think you're hitting this issue head on. It sucks that these engines are so touchy with overheating since the system keeps them running warmer than I'm used to. I've almost gotten to the point to where I'd want to run reflective tape throughout the engine bay and install a hood louver to aid in the air flow. But my WJ is running just fine now. It may go to my daily once I get my next rig or I might sell it unfortunately. Either way, glad you're addressing it BEFORE it becomes a problem. Might also help with a bit better performance.

Thanks, and yes I definitely intend to hang onto all the stock hydro-fan stuff. If this e-fan setup doesn't work out I'd hate to have to source it all again, as you stated it's hard to find parts for it, and when you can it's expensive. Once the e-fans are fully proven (at least a year of use in all weather) I'll sell them on and hopefully keep another WJ on the road.

-TJ

 

[MrWilsonWJ]

On my 2000 Wj I'm currently doing some of the same stuff you are with improving the cooling system. When I started getting things apart I noticed one of the PO had put in an auxiliary trans cooler ran in series with the cooler in the radiator and it got me pondering the idea of just plugging the ports on the radiator and running a larger auxiliary trans cooler. I know you'd still have hot air passing through the radiator after it passed through the new trans cooler but it would take some of the heat from hot fluid out of the radiator itself and might improve efficiency. Just an idea I was kicking around since I'm waiting on a new radiator to show up, the first one was damaged in shipping. Any thoughts or concerns you have on this idea? Also have you ever ran a scanner and monitored trans temps while driving? Maybe the additional trans cooling is more beneficial then dropping a couple degrees in coolant...

 

[tjZ06]

I finally got started on working on some of this stuff. I only had a couple hours to mess with it, and my buddies and I were mostly watching the Niners game (*bang bang*), eating nachos, and drinking beer... aka standard for working on Heeps.



The important stuff (yes I'm a chump and don't have a permanent TV setup in the garage *yet*):









Just getting started. The more I take this Heep apart the more I'm impressed and thrilled with how clean and corrosion free things are. There is a *little* corrosion under the battery tray from a failed battery, while I'm in here I'll hit it with some rust-preventative paint (it's nothing you'd ever see unless you're elbow deep, so it's not going to be a pretty job):







A bit more taken apart. I'm not going to lie, initially looking at this thing I thought it was going to be a complete nightmare. There's a lot going on in a really small engine bay, but it's honestly not too bad. Water pump is off here, it wasn't leaking but I figured I'd be crazy not to replace it now. Also replaced the idler assembly and a bunch of other little stuff.







Stopping point after the game yesterday (yes, I'll be cleaning the AC condensor). New water pump, idlers etc. on.







The PS pump is just about to come off and I'll start figuring out getting the lines all right to eliminate the hydraulic fan (as I mentioned above, I bought a new '99 V8 PS pump that does not have the hydro fan fittings. I bought all the PS lines for a '99 as well so it *should* kind of all work out. The difference with my '03 though is it has a Yuge PS cooler since the PS fluid was used for the hydrualic fan. See this pic:



Circled is the big arse PS cooler, and the arrows show the lines for it wrapping back around to the PS-box/pump area. I should have everything I need to retain this... but I'll have to start laying some of that out and figure it out.



As for the radiator, the all-AL aftermarket unit for the '99 looks really nice. It's taller, and the interwebs said I would need to trim the factory fan shroud to run it. Well, I'm obviously ditching that factory shroud so it looks like it'll be a perfect fit. We already put it in place and sized it all up, but I didn't get pics. It also looks like there will be tons of room for the fans, they're slimmer than the whole hyrdo setup. The new rad has all the right tabs, slots, etc. for a factory fit!

I still need to secure the shroud assembly to the radiator, and originally I was thinking maybe I'd use some of those plastic/rubber dealios made for just that - but that isn't my favorite idea. I had half a set of these: Derale 50020: High Pressure Stacked Plate Cooler Mounting Bracket Kit New 4-way Bracket System | JEGS left from doing the oil-cooler install on the Teryx I had, so I started sizing it up...







BOOM, these things are going to work perfectly with the holes for the factory shroud setup on the radiator. Obviously I'll be drilling 2 new holes in the shroud per mount, but that's simple. I only have 2 though, so I had to order up another set and I'm kind of stalled for the radiator portion on that. I'll need to double-check what else mounted through these holes too, and make sure I account for that. As far as I can tell it was only the original shroud assembly, since nothing else mounts in towards the engine.



So, that's where I am. I might try to put a little time in before heading back down to the Bay tonight.



-TJ