Why are there so few Silverado overland rigs?

[Billiebob]

Gotta agree with ya about the extra 10 gallons. Before my last trip I fabbed up a couple of mounts; 1 for two 5-gallon gas cans, and another for two 5-gallong water jugs.
I mounted the gas cans on the drivers side so I could easily fill the tank with 10 gallons of juice without having to remove the gas cans.

View attachment 182372

my kinda paint job, nice gas setup too

 

[Peregrine]

Mine is a 99 2500 Silverado, 202k miles. Standard cab, 8ft bed. ARE tall shell with the double door back. Have overlanded all over the world in various rigs. Bumping tires from 245s to 265s. Building out the back, bed, storages, etc. Front is 1-1/2 inches lower the an rear. Will level with new torsion bar cam levers . On the immediate wish list, winch, bigger gas tank. Will do receiver mount for the winch so can be used from or rear. Rest as needed.

 

[MOAK]

I would have to disagree with that blanket statement. I used to Rockcrawl a '99 Toy 4Runner that did ok, until I started breaking half-shafts. Heck, I even upgraded the half-shafts to stronger steel, and still broke them. I then fabbed up my own D44 3-link suspension. This was a bullet-proof setup, but it was designed to handle the most rigorous environments with 37" tires, such as rock-crawling.

The full size rigs generally have larger diameter CV shafts, tulip-joints, and CV-joints, as they are designed to carry a larger weight than the mid-sized Tacoma trucks. I think it really comes down to what you are doing with your truck. Changing out an IFS shaft is not that difficult, and can be done on the trail (I've done it) without loosing the diff fluid. They actually provide a better ride than a solid-axle due to the elimination of the bump-steer, and more importantly they eliminate the dreaded death-wobble that the Ram and Jeeps are so famous for, in their solid-axle rigs. If I had the money, I would switch over to a Solid axle just for the peace of mind, but I don't so, I need to take a bit more precaution with my IFS, and just enjoy the ride that it provides. I think today's IFS rigs are more than capable, given the driver doesn't develop a heavy-foot while trying to get unstuck.

you are talking about a rock crawler. I’m talking about an “overlanding” rig’s long term dependability. I’ll stand by my blanket statement concerning “ overland ” vehicles. If it were not true, world wide sales of Toyota trucks would have dried up a couple of decades ago. There is one extremely good reason that ‘merican pickup trucks cannot compete overseas, and that reason is long term dependability . One thing that keeps merican pick up trucks dominating in sales in the US is regulation. Imagine if all models of all Landcruisers or Nissans were permitted to be imported into the US, going back to the late 60s. Imagine a LC 79 series competing with the new Jeep pickup. Imagine a 70 series Troopy. Back in the 70s politicians began doing everything possible to keep Toyota trucks and their robust line of SUVs out of the country. They knew that the Fords, Chevys, Dodges, and later on Jeeps, wouldn’t have a chance st keeping viable market shares. So, only luxury Toyota trucks, an Americanized line of Toyota pickup trucks, and the same kind of Nissans or Mitsubishis couldn’t be imported. So, the next time anyone wants to complain about regulation they ought to be thoughtful and be grateful for the merican made pickup truck they are driving. BTW, been driving solid axle front end for decades, Ford, Jeep and now Toyota, all with aftermarket suspensions and never once experienced the dreaded death wobble.

 

[Boostpowered]

you are talking about a rock crawler. I’m talking about an “overlanding” rig’s long term dependability. I’ll stand by my blanket statement concerning “ overland ” vehicles. If it were not true, world wide sales of Toyota trucks would have dried up a couple of decades ago. There is one extremely good reason that ‘merican pickup trucks cannot compete overseas, and that reason is long term dependability . One thing that keeps merican pick up trucks dominating in sales in the US is regulation. Imagine if all models of all Landcruisers or Nissans were permitted to be imported into the US, going back to the late 60s. Imagine a LC 79 series competing with the new Jeep pickup. Imagine a 70 series Troopy. Back in the 70s politicians began doing everything possible to keep Toyota trucks and their robust line of SUVs out of the country. They knew that the Fords, Chevys, Dodges, and later on Jeeps, wouldn’t have a chance st keeping viable market shares. So, only luxury Toyota trucks, an Americanized line of Toyota pickup trucks, and the same kind of Nissans or Mitsubishis couldn’t be imported. So, the next time anyone wants to complain about regulation they ought to be thoughtful and be grateful for the merican made pickup truck they are driving. BTW, been driving solid axle front end for decades, Ford, Jeep and now Toyota, all with aftermarket suspensions and never once experienced the dreaded death wobble.

Is that unreliability the reason that Australians love the chevy/holden clorado, tacomas, frontiers etc so much? Or maybe its because all those land rovers with solid axles are all on their way out and unable to be repaired anymore. Do you think other countries are getting versions of tacomas, frontiers etc with solid axles? That ain't happening they get the same thing we do. You'd think in one of the toughest terrains available everyone would have solid axles if that was the answer to it all.

 

[Wile_Coyote]

you are talking about a rock crawler. I’m talking about an “overlanding” rig’s long term dependability. I’ll stand by my blanket statement concerning “ overland ” vehicles. If it were not true, world wide sales of Toyota trucks would have dried up a couple of decades ago. There is one extremely good reason that ‘merican pickup trucks cannot compete overseas, and that reason is long term dependability . One thing that keeps merican pick up trucks dominating in sales in the US is regulation. Imagine if all models of all Landcruisers or Nissans were permitted to be imported into the US, going back to the late 60s. Imagine a LC 79 series competing with the new Jeep pickup. Imagine a 70 series Troopy. Back in the 70s politicians began doing everything possible to keep Toyota trucks and their robust line of SUVs out of the country. They knew that the Fords, Chevys, Dodges, and later on Jeeps, wouldn’t have a chance st keeping viable market shares. So, only luxury Toyota trucks, an Americanized line of Toyota pickup trucks, and the same kind of Nissans or Mitsubishis couldn’t be imported. So, the next time anyone wants to complain about regulation they ought to be thoughtful and be grateful for the merican made pickup truck they are driving. BTW, been driving solid axle front end for decades, Ford, Jeep and now Toyota, all with aftermarket suspensions and never once experienced the dreaded death wobble.

Your initial response to another user was “you will never own an IFS equipped vehicle. They are that bad”. However, you have praised Toyota IFS as superior to domestics. Well, good for you, you’ve made a decision and stuck to it. My disagreement is with your blanket statement regarding your claimed superior Toyota IFS to all other domestics IFS. I still stand by this argument, that Toyota IFS is no stronger or better than domestics IFS, especially when it comes to Overland usage. If we are comparing Overlanding to Overlanding, Toyota IFS is no more superior to domestics IFS. The designs are all the same from Toyota to domestic, because it works, is cheaper, and provides a better ride for the majority of consumers.

However, now you have changed the scope of your argument to quality and dependability. I would ask you, what quality are your referring to; Engine components, transmissions, transfer cases, wiring harness? IF this is what you are referencing in your quality statement, then yes, I would agree with your idea, to a point. During the 70’s to 90’s, Toyota’s quality was better than domestic, and this period is what gave Toyota a leg up in the automotive industry. However, domestics have stepped up their game in an attempt to match Toyota’s quality.

As for overseas, one of the largest factors as to why domestics have not gained a larger footprint is the cost of fuel. Gas overseas is priced in liters, and is significantly more expensive overseas than here in the States.

I can certainly respect your point of view for Toyota solid axle vehicles, they are most certainly stronger than IFS. There is no argument about that. However, are they more comfortable? That depends on the suspension setup. The FJ40 land cruisers, with a solid axle, had a leaf spring setup with a shackle on the front of the leaf spring, which gave a horrible ride. The same goes for the ’84 4Runner with a leaf spring, only the shackle was moved to the rear of the spring, still a rough ride. Then, if anybody decided to put a lift on these, they became dangerous as the pitman arm (even a dropped arm) created bump-steer that was not only unpleasant, but downright dangerous at times.

It seems you have certainly cast your lot with the Toyota FJ80 Landcruiser that provided a coil-over suspension, and a solid axle with lockers and Birfields. By the way, these Birfield joints are the predecessor to the CV axle, they can be blown up too.

So what’s next on the scope creep? Seating on the domestics not to your liking? Being that you are posting this ire in a Silverado thread, you must have some serious disdain towards GM or Chevy.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

See, now guys, I always understood that solid front axle was cheaper and better offroad, although my 90's k1500 big Blazers were IFS and were a very comfortable ride and with no real maintenance done per say.

I can honestly say that I have very much indeed experienced death wobble in my solid front axle jeep - after adding 2 inch lifted springs, isolators, pro comp 9000 shocks and new Moog sway bar links, a damn near sh!t my pants going 55 on the highway over a rough patch.

I dont see wht an IFS can be robust enough to be very dependable.

 

[Wile_Coyote]

See, now guys, I always understood that solid front axle was cheaper and better offroad, although my 90's k1500 big Blazers were IFS and were a very comfortable ride and with no real maintenance done per say.

I can honestly say that I have very much indeed experienced death wobble in my solid front axle jeep - after adding 2 inch lifted springs, isolators, pro comp 9000 shocks and new Moog sway bar links, a damn near sh!t my pants going 55 on the highway over a rough patch.

I dont see wht an IFS can be robust enough to be very dependable.

LOL, I nearly sh!t my pants as well during an incident with an '82 4x4 Toyota truck. It was lifted and I was only running 32" tires, which I thought at the time was some big rubber. I had a motorcycle in the bed of the truck and on the highway I hit some marbled and rolled asphalt that is left behind by big semi trucks. Mind you this was not the Interstate, just a two lane county road. Nevertheless, I found myself in the opposite lane, bugged-eyed, and with a death grip on the steering wheel. I nearly Sh!t my pants during that little episode. After that I was wary of pot holes, rumble strips, squirrels and anything else in the road.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

LOL, I nearly sh!t my pants as well during an incident with an '82 4x4 Toyota truck. It was lifted and I was only running 32" tires, which I thought at the time was some big rubber. I had a motorcycle in the bed of the truck and on the highway I hit some marbled and rolled asphalt that is left behind by big semi trucks. Mind you this was not the Interstate, just a two lane county road. Nevertheless, I found myself in the opposite lane, bugged-eyed, and with a death grip on the steering wheel. I nearly Sh!t my pants during that little episode. After that I was wary of pot holes, rumble strips, squirrels and anything else in the road.

I know, right?! (meant to say, I dont know why IFS couldn't be made robust enough - I'm sure it is or can be).

I agree with the reason US trucks are not well received overseas is because of the wild fuel prices. We make personal big trucks (k1500 through k3500) very well. Until recently, our small to midsize trucks have really only been an afterthought. Fuel prices are crazy elsewhere. And I'm sure that's the biggest factor aside from size. What GMC Sierra double can 6 and a half foot bed truck is gonna navigate the streets of Rome or Beijing? None, not very well at least. THAT is the reason our trucks dont sell well overseas.

They sell like hotcakes here, and people use them for all sorts of rough play, towing, hauling. They sell like crazy though to a lesser extent in Canada and Mexico. Even in parts of Brazil. Any place there is space. I bet they'd sell well in western China and Siberia, too, if it was worth the cost to get them there and fuel prices there weren't ridiculous.

I like my Jeep, but I like my GMC Sierra more. It's more comfortable, rides nicer, tows more, hauls more, and I can sleep in the bed with my Leer topper easier than in the back of a Grand Cherokee. And I will say, these GMC coil-overs are no joke. Broke the shop wall mounted coil compressor 3 times and had to weld repair it when we were changing out for Bilsteins. Same compressor that worked with ease for my Jeep springs last year. Seems pretty rugged to me

 

[RoarinRow]

Mine is a 99 2500 Silverado, 202k miles. Standard cab, 8ft bed. ARE tall shell with the double door back. Have overlanded all over the world in various rigs. Bumping tires from 245s to 265s. Building out the back, bed, storages, etc. Front is 1-1/2 inches lower the an rear. Will level with new torsion bar cam levers . On the immediate wish list, winch, bigger gas tank. Will do receiver mount for the winch so can be used from or rear. Rest as needed.

Previous owner of my truck upgraded gas tank to a 45 gallon tank - 45 Gallon GM/Chevy Midship Replacement Fuel Tank - Transfer Flow, Inc. - Aftermarket Fuel Tank Systems

 

[Wile_Coyote]

That's a BIG tank. Or are there two tanks?

edit, I stand corrected. That's freakin HUGE!!!

 

[RoarinRow]

That's a BIG tank. Or are there two tanks?

edit, I stand corrected. That's freakin HUGE!!!

It only feels like a 45 gallon tank at the pump lol.

 

[Sparksalot]

That's a BIG tank. Or are there two tanks?

edit, I stand corrected. That's freakin HUGE!!!

My grandpa had a 71 C/10 with three tanks, 22 in the cab, 11 under a rear fender below the bed, and a 66 gallon custom built unit against the front of the bed. Range was important to him, rockhounding in the west.

 

[Anak]

A previous owner put a 49 gallon tank in my old square body Suburban. That was painful to fill.

 

[Wile_Coyote]

ya know, speaking of these larger tanks, they add a significant amount of weight to the vehicle when full. Water weighs about 8 lbs / gallong, and gasoline weighs about 6.3 lbs / gallon. Lets say we have 66 gallons in the tank for a trip. The 66 gallons alone is 415lbs, taken from the payload capacity. That's significant. But, I suppose if you want to stay in the boonies longer, that is what's needed.... either way, that's a heavy situation.

 

[Clrussell]

My truck holds 86 gallons of fuel if it’s full to the top. I like having plenty of diesel if I’m going very far from home. Sometimes diesel is hard to find, especially quality fuel.

 

[MazeVX]

Ignoring the rest, I just want to say something about US fullsize outside of America.

Let me tell you something... In most of Europe is just not enough space for a fullsize. The parking spots are to narrow and much to short. Driving in the city can be a nightmare.
The tow capacity gets rated down to 3,5T (about 7700lbs) and the load capacity usually gets down also.
The fuel consumption is about three times as a normal car and we are paying about 6$/us gallon.
A 44.000$ truck cost you about 65.000€ what means almost 80.000$ until it's here and registered ready to drive. A well equipped new Silverado regularly imported by a aftermarket import dealer will cost over 70k€

So it's not a question of reliability, parts availability or something.
It's just money...

We do love fullsize pickups, I love large displacement V8's, the towing and load capacity but it's just f*** expensive over here. Please don't take offense over what I have written.

 

[Wile_Coyote]

Ignoring the rest, I just want to say something about US fullsize outside of America.

Let me tell you something... In most of Europe is just not enough space for a fullsize. The parking spots are to narrow and much to short. Driving in the city can be a nightmare.
The tow capacity gets rated down to 3,5T (about 7700lbs) and the load capacity usually gets down also.
The fuel consumption is about three times as a normal car and we are paying about 6$/us gallon.
A 44.000$ truck cost you about 65.000€ what means almost 80.000$ until it's here and registered ready to drive. A well equipped new Silverado regularly imported by a aftermarket import dealer will cost over 70k€

So it's not a question of reliability, parts availability or something.
It's just money...

We do love fullsize pickups, I love large displacement V8's, the towing and load capacity but it's just f*** expensive over here. Please don't take offense over what I have written.

I was in Germany/Spain/France over 20 years ago, and I was surprised by the price of gas then, I can't imagine it now. I remember seeing all these little liter-type cars running all over the place, and yeah, everything is so much smaller. Heck, even their trash cans (bins) are smaller. Gotta agree with you on the feel of the V8. GM's new AFM (Active Fuel Management) may be ok for a lot of folks, but I certainly like my V8 sound, and always-there power.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Ignoring the rest, I just want to say something about US fullsize outside of America.

Let me tell you something... In most of Europe is just not enough space for a fullsize. The parking spots are to narrow and much to short. Driving in the city can be a nightmare.
The tow capacity gets rated down to 3,5T (about 7700lbs) and the load capacity usually gets down also.
The fuel consumption is about three times as a normal car and we are paying about 6$/us gallon.
A 44.000$ truck cost you about 65.000€ what means almost 80.000$ until it's here and registered ready to drive. A well equipped new Silverado regularly imported by a aftermarket import dealer will cost over 70k€

So it's not a question of reliability, parts availability or something.
It's just money...

We do love fullsize pickups, I love large displacement V8's, the towing and load capacity but it's just f*** expensive over here. Please don't take offense over what I have written.

No offense on my end, Maze. You seem to have confirmed my thoughts on this.

You almost never see full size trucks on the old Top Gear and they were used -with disdain -on one episode of Grand Tour when they went to rescue Hammond in Alaska. I've never lived in Europe but my brother has and he's told me all about it. I worked for a British company here in the US and we had many executives and employees with us from Europe. I heard all about how big our cars and trucks are and how large our restaurant portions are. I took it all as good advice, like my Grammy from California telling us here in New England to make sure and conserve water. Maybe it didnt apply to us like it did to her, but it was worth considering and understanding and maybe making a change.

Brazil is similar to Europe, in that the cities still have a lot of very narrow cobblestone streets that go right up to the sides of the buildings, no thought of a sidewalk in some places. But get away from the city and the only concern is price of fuel.

I will never understand why fuel is that expensive in Europe. I thought the whole purpose for the EU was to band together for heavier clout and buying power en mass that would lower those types of prices. But what do I know I'm no expert.

 

[MazeVX]

I will never understand why fuel is that expensive in Europe. I thought the whole purpose for the EU was to band together for heavier clout and buying power en mass that would lower those types of prices. But what do I know I'm no expert.

About the fuel prices, I'll stick to € here, so on every Liter Diesel 0,47€ fuel tax, 0,65€ fuel tax for Petrol + the product price itself and then you get 19% sales tax on top.
And voila there you have it...

About the EU and reasons and such... We don't want to discuss this here it's purely political stuff.

If it wasn't about my mom and a few details I would have settled to the US and definitely have a fullsize ;-)

 

[SquishBang]

Let me tell you something... In most of Europe is just not enough space for a fullsize. The parking spots are to narrow and much to short. Driving in the city can be a nightmare.

Sounds like the Seattle-metro area.
Sometimes, I even have trouble parking my wife's new Corolla Hatchback! The parking spots here are ridiculous.
I kind of enjoy cramming a full-size 4x4 crew cab into a "compact" spot!