Wheel alignment suggestions?

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I am in need of an alignment after lift and larger tires. I dont trust the local gm dealership they have already proven themselves incompetent, my other options are national tire battery, discount tire, firestone, or small no name shops, or i can drive 50 miles and go to 4wheel parts in plano. Which one wpuld you trust more to do a truck with 3" lift and 265 70 17 tires? I dont really care about the price i just want it done right, if i must ill do it myself but i really dont want to.
 
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The other Sean

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I'd trust an independent shop, a dedicated alignment shop or a 4wd shop over any of the chain stores. I had my Frontier aligned at a local shop and before I gave them the truck I explained what and why my suspension was set up as it's a mix of Titan and aftermarket parts, so it's not just a set the tow and ship it deal.
 

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Id talk to the shop and explain whay you want. If you say "I'd like to maximize caster, even if camber is barely in spec" and they say "ah, can do!," they are probably fine.

I have had a shop sternly tell me they will only do the minimum adjustment to get within factory specs, so they didnt get my business.
 

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Discount tire and ntb seem to be the only places that will return my call or emails, local shops aren't open on weekends so they are out even if the do well. Ive called and emailed 4wp about 40 or so times with no results. I really did not want to but it looks like ill be doing it myself
 

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I would go to a 4x4 shop. The problem you get with most dealerships and a lot of smaller indie shops is they go by the book. Once you lift a rig the book is simply a starting point. Honestly alignment is largely subjective, if the rig tracks straight and doesnt chew up tires who cares about the specs...
 

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I’ve been seriously playing with the idea of just starting to do my own alignment. Really tired of alignments that are “in spec” that don’t track straight. And having techs explain limitations of my vehicles setup to me that I know aren’t correct.

How hard is it really? I know how to set toe, that’s not hard. 5 minutes easily. But how hard is it to get accurate measurements for camber and caster?
 

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I’ve been seriously playing with the idea of just starting to do my own alignment. Really tired of alignments that are “in spec” that don’t track straight. And having techs explain limitations of my vehicles setup to me that I know aren’t correct.

How hard is it really? I know how to set toe, that’s not hard. 5 minutes easily. But how hard is it to get accurate measurements for camber and caster?
The problem with spec alignment is that it's made for stock and standard use, some of us are far away from stock and use it way different than the manufacturer has planned it, therefore need alignment out of spec.
Many shops will not do "out of spec" alignment.
You need to find someone who understands what we are doing
 

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Interesting,, I've been setting up my own "toe" for, wow, a really long time, on every solid front axle vehicle I've ever owned. However, I'd leave independent front suspensions to the pros. You guys are talking about being out of spec? I've got heavy 2850 J springs up front giving me nearly 3" of lift. with 3 degree caster bushings all the rest of the stuff is on spec as I do have it all checked with each new set of tires. If your vehicle is lifted properly, caster, camber and toes in should be in factory spec. At least that is the goal.
 
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Interesting,, I've been setting up my own "toe" for, wow, a really long time, on every solid front axle vehicle I've ever owned. However, I'd leave independent front suspensions to the pros. You guys are talking about being out of spec? I've got heavy 2850 J springs up front giving me nearly 3" of lift. with 3 degree caster bushings all the rest of the stuff is on spec as I do have it all checked with each new set of tires. If your vehicle is lifted properly, caster, camber and toes in should be in factory spec. At least that is the goal.
This not 100% correct, as suspension dynamics change due to lifts and larger tires other tweeks can be made to help in the suspension. The biggest example is when running larger tires you should be running more toe in, as theres more flex in a bigger sidewall and as such larger tires usually wander more, unless you set the alignment to the tire and not to spec. Something as small as a 1/32" on toe can make a HUGE difference. Theres TONs of little tricks out there that put your alignment out of spec, but will make it drive down the road better.
 
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When we do our own toe in we are working with fractions of inches. When a shop does it on the computer they are working with degrees. If I'm running tires that are only an inch to two inches larger than stock the amount of "patch" is only increased by minute fractions of an inch. Which makes it easy to bring it into spec manually. If however, one is running huge lifts and huge tires, well then, 1- that is not an overlanding rig, and 2- good luck ever getting it aligned properly without dumping several thousand dollars into suspension upgrades unless it is perched on solid axles and leaf springs all around.
 

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Its not as hard and scary as your trying to make out. Stock spec gives you a max and minimum value the key is to get it right in the middle of those two numbers, even after 3 inches of lift my camber was at zero only had to adjust toe 1/8th of an inch out. Solid axles only need caster and toe set and unless youve slammed your front axle against a rock or potholes real hard then your caster needs checking.
If your rig wont track straight your caster is off
 
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For a 2017 chevrolet colorado z71 2.8 duramax the spec range youd need are:
For the front
Cross camber -0.8° to 0.8°
Cross caster -1.0° to 1.0°
Total toe -0.10° to 0.30°

For the rear the only spec i had was thrust angle @ 0.22°
 

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Its not as hard and scary as your trying to make out. Stock spec gives you a max and minimum value the key is to get it right in the middle of those two numbers, even after 3 inches of lift my camber was at zero only had to adjust toe 1/8th of an inch out. Solid axles only need caster and toe set and unless youve slammed your front axle against a rock or potholes real hard then your caster needs checking.
If your rig wont track straight your caster is off
Not at all difficult or scaryunder about 3” of lift..
 

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Ill throw in my 3 cents here.
Someone who does alignments professionally, is held accountable for that alignment. In the shop, the best way to cover your butt is put it in factory spec. You can ask for a custom alignment but, you better know what you want. The best guys to do custom work are ones who mod or race your particular vehicle type. They (hopefully) will know how to maximize the alignment angles to your build. All of this is assuming they can properly adjust your suspension after you mod it. Some lift's cannot be properly adjusted if at all, other than toe.

I have always had access to an alignment machine and have played with different cars over the years. The customers got stock alignments, my friends and I got custom. In a shop, custom means more liability. A lifetime of that and the tech only knows stock. The other issue is, who trained him. Most guys are given a quick once over on the machine and now they do alignments. They don't even understand angles.

In the field there's a term, its called "toe and go". Check the front toe and ship it. It takes me quite a bit to do an alignment. Test drive, check suspension for wear, measure everything, align, test drive.
You get about 1 hour to do all this. You go to work to make money. This is only a money maker if you find worn out parts. Same thing with $19.95 oil change. Most techs are taught to check toe and ship. 20 years later this is all they know or want to do.

15 years ago I retired and started teaching. Alignment is one of the things I teach. My students would bring in everything from mom's car to their custom whatever. You would be surprised how many guys I had who were already working, were never taught correctly. Some of these vehicles were aligned incomplete or incorrectly by professionals before the student brought it in.
Why is this? Because the guy who taught them was never taught correctly. Same with who taught him. Not properly trained, bad habits due to the need to get it done and this is who trained the guy you want to do custom work.

When it comes to custom anything, you need to know everything about what your doing or have access to people who have the same thing you do with the info. On alignments there is no one size fits all perfect combo. You can optimize but if you want precision, you need to do math. Most of our vehicles, we just need to optimize for tire wear (street) and those numbers are stock numbers. Our issue's are more related to caster than anything. You should back off caster when you go bigger tires. But you can go too far and cause instability. As long as you only went a couple of tire sizes bigger, its not real important. The issue here is though, unless you modify your suspension, it's not adjustable on most vehicles.

I'm sorry if this sounds like a rant. As a tech who went to school for it and eventually finished my degree, It saddens me to have worked with or met so many people who should not be professionally working on car's (don't even get me started on brakes).

I have though worked with many real good techs. The most knowledgeable are the ones who race. They know how to set their vehicle up correctly using custom parts. Everyone else were just good techs as long as you don't talk custom.

Scott
 

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Ill throw in my 3 cents here.
Someone who does alignments professionally, is held accountable for that alignment. In the shop, the best way to cover your butt is put it in factory spec. You can ask for a custom alignment but, you better know what you want. The best guys to do custom work are ones who mod or race your particular vehicle type. They (hopefully) will know how to maximize the alignment angles to your build. All of this is assuming they can properly adjust your suspension after you mod it. Some lift's cannot be properly adjusted if at all, other than toe.

I have always had access to an alignment machine and have played with different cars over the years. The customers got stock alignments, my friends and I got custom. In a shop, custom means more liability. A lifetime of that and the tech only knows stock. The other issue is, who trained him. Most guys are given a quick once over on the machine and now they do alignments. They don't even understand angles.

In the field there's a term, its called "toe and go". Check the front toe and ship it. It takes me quite a bit to do an alignment. Test drive, check suspension for wear, measure everything, align, test drive.
You get about 1 hour to do all this. You go to work to make money. This is only a money maker if you find worn out parts. Same thing with $19.95 oil change. Most techs are taught to check toe and ship. 20 years later this is all they know or want to do.

15 years ago I retired and started teaching. Alignment is one of the things I teach. My students would bring in everything from mom's car to their custom whatever. You would be surprised how many guys I had who were already working, were never taught correctly. Some of these vehicles were aligned incomplete or incorrectly by professionals before the student brought it in.
Why is this? Because the guy who taught them was never taught correctly. Same with who taught him. Not properly trained, bad habits due to the need to get it done and this is who trained the guy you want to do custom work.

When it comes to custom anything, you need to know everything about what your doing or have access to people who have the same thing you do with the info. On alignments there is no one size fits all perfect combo. You can optimize but if you want precision, you need to do math. Most of our vehicles, we just need to optimize for tire wear (street) and those numbers are stock numbers. Our issue's are more related to caster than anything. You should back off caster when you go bigger tires. But you can go too far and cause instability. As long as you only went a couple of tire sizes bigger, its not real important. The issue here is though, unless you modify your suspension, it's not adjustable on most vehicles.

I'm sorry if this sounds like a rant. As a tech who went to school for it and eventually finished my degree, It saddens me to have worked with or met so many people who should not be professionally working on car's (don't even get me started on brakes).

I have though worked with many real good techs. The most knowledgeable are the ones who race. They know how to set their vehicle up correctly using custom parts. Everyone else were just good techs as long as you don't talk custom.

Scott
As a technician I agree with you 100%.
Even with modifications, a near factory spec should be strived for. If the vehicle is so heavily modified that this is unattainable, my opinion is that it's not a daily driver, or even street capable and the alignment is/ shouldn't really be that big of an issue to this person, i.e rock buggy, etc.
@Toytec actually has a video on YouTube that explains alignments, in a very easy to understand video, for after lifting a vehicle and how the measurements change. This video includes how to help with caster to bring close to spec.
If your front camber is not within spec, this would be a time to look into UCAs that put your suspensions geometric axis back into a factory spec.
Just my 2 cents.
 
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Its done ive moved on, the next major modification will probably be a 4" exhaust stack/snorkel with the aussie style tip through the bed to match the intakes height
 
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