What Should Routing Icons Be?!

[Michael]

Very exciting! We are just about to release MVP of route planning in the OB1 app and it would be great to get a little feedback from you on one of the more challenging route planning options. The challenge is making it clear to you what is happening. We have four Route planning modes between waypoints and you can change modes any time. The modes are:

Car: This will route along maintained roads. Think Waze, Google, Apple maps.
Bike: This includes unmaintained roads like Forest Service roads and other paths - with a couple complications: 1. It will include paths you really should not be driving on 2. It optimizes routes in cities along roads with bike paths.
Walking: Hiking and walking paths.
Bird: As the bird flies. This is a straight line between waypoints.


The complication is bike paths. If you start routing with OB1 and start plotting points on a forest service road in "Car" mode, it will not route along the road. Switching to Bike mode, it will route. If we make that icon an offroad truck, it will route correctly, but also have the anomalies mentioned above. I thing the offroad truck will be most clear to the community and result in more happiness with OB1 users, but have the tradeoffs. The question is, leave it a bike or make it an offroad truck?

Thank you!

 

[Ubiety]

Sticky wicket, will have to think about bike vs truck routing. A question - is true bicycle routing a use case?
Correct me if I am wrong. You are saying that we have to be in "bike mode" to route along offroad tracks, but in that mode we may get routed along bicycle only trails?
For me, and I know that does not apply to all, city routing along bike paths is unimportant as I use Apple maps for that task. I tend to route only away-from-city tracks but I am sure that does not apply to all. So my main use case would be "bike mode" where I can route dirt roads but could see switching to "car mode" for country roads that connect dirt roads. I know that I would be disappointed to have created some route and then find that it peters out at a bike only area.
Will the app know that a route has transitioned to a bike only area? If so maybe a warning could be presented or something along those lines. Could the app look at the location of the route and disable/enable different routing modes based upon location? For instance I am creating an overlanding trip that transitions a city, while laying down tracks within city limits only the car mode routing would be available to keep me from unnecessarily routing along roads with bike paths.

I don't think this reply is helpful at all but maybe it will spur some conversation... BTW - I love the fact that you can switch routing modes mid-stream - that is great!

 

[Sylvester]

OffRoad Truck - Maybe a Jeep Gladiator

 

[zgfiredude]

I agree with @Ubiety .... the off road truck will on one hand be clearer, and on the other, potentially not. I too route when away from cities, so I'm not sure that it will be an issue (for me). Curious conundrum however.

 

[OTH Overland]

I agree with @Ubiety that most of us do not use overlanding nav software in cities or for general urban routing, When planning for exploration, there should be some responsibility by the user to make sure you are selecting roads approved for the means of travel you will be using, i.e. car vs foot vs motorcyle or side by side, (using the approprate map layer (MVUM for example) with that in mind, i think the workaround of using the 'bike' tool to route via non paved roads would be acceptable (and agree that some type of non denominational 4x4 symbol such as this that does not irritate any brand loyal users..lol would be a better choice than a bicyle) and if not possible to have non approved for vehicle roads marked with warnings as has been suggested, then perhaps a global warning when you select that button such as "please be advised this tool may route you on non-motorized routes, use at your discretion" may be appropriate. When using Gaia to create routes by selecting roads, it does seem to let you select most any road, FS, and also hiking trails etc and routes along them without neededing to change the routing type, so it seems like it should be possible to do with one button? howerver there is also no provide warning when selecting a walking path either. (when routing by clicking a location only it sends you to google maps which does route along FS roads also. Looking forward to playing with the new feature when it comes out. and Thanks for soliciting our random advice and ramblings during the development, much appreciated.

 

[Ubiety]

I agree with @Ubiety that most of us do not use overlanding nav software in cities or for general urban routing, When planning for exploration, there should be some responsibility by the user to make sure you are selecting roads approved for the means of travel you will be using, i.e. car vs foot vs motorcyle or side by side, (using the approprate map layer (MVUM for example) with that in mind, i think the workaround of using the 'bike' tool to route via non paved roads would be acceptable (and agree that some type of non denominational 4x4 symbol such as this View attachment 235570 that does not irritate any brand loyal users..lol would be a better choice than a bicyle) and if not possible to have non approved for vehicle roads marked with warnings as has been suggested, then perhaps a global warning when you select that button such as "please be advised this tool may route you on non-motorized routes, use at your discretion" may be appropriate. When using Gaia to create routes by selecting roads, it does seem to let you select most any road, FS, and also hiking trails etc and routes along them without neededing to change the routing type, so it seems like it should be possible to do with one button? howerver there is also no provide warning when selecting a walking path either. (when routing by clicking a location only it sends you to google maps which does route along FS roads also. Looking forward to playing with the new feature when it comes out. and Thanks for soliciting our random advice and ramblings during the development, much appreciated.

Gaia allows you to select the type or route that you are creating and defaults to hiking. I have not seen how to change that mid-stream and have had to start over with route creation so many times because I neglected to change that setting at the beginning. Have created routes in Gaia in hiking mode only to find out that not all of the route is vehicle accessible so I am pretty anal about creating the correct type of routes there. Sigh ;)

Edit - looks like Gaia allows you to change the route type mid-stream now. Pretty sure this was not always the case but could be wrong.

 

[OTH Overland]

Gaia allows you to select the type or route that you are creating and defaults to hiking. I have not seen how to change that mid-stream and have had to start over with route creation so many times because I neglected to change that setting at the beginning. Have created routes in Gaia in hiking mode only to find out that not all of the route is vehicle accessible so I am pretty anal about creating the correct type of routes there. Sigh ;)

Edit - looks like Gaia allows you to change the route type mid-stream now. Pretty sure this was not always the case but could be wrong.
View attachment 235571

Sometimes I miss my paper maps and highlighters...lol of course I say that about CAD software and my old box of manual drafting tools too... might be a sign of being old too.. lol

 

[danwyandt]

Very exciting! We are just about to release MVP of route planning in the OB1 app and it would be great to get a little feedback from you on one of the more challenging route planning options. The challenge is making it clear to you what is happening. We have four Route planning modes between waypoints and you can change modes any time. The modes are:

Car: This will route along maintained roads. Think Waze, Google, Apple maps.
Bike: This includes unmaintained roads like Forest Service roads and other paths - with a couple complications: 1. It will include paths you really should not be driving on 2. It optimizes routes in cities along roads with bike paths.
Walking: Hiking and walking paths.
Bird: As the bird flies. This is a straight line between waypoints.

View attachment 235560
The complication is bike paths. If you start routing with OB1 and start plotting points on a forest service road in "Car" mode, it will not route along the road. Switching to Bike mode, it will route. If we make that icon an offroad truck, it will route correctly, but also have the anomalies mentioned above. I thing the offroad truck will be most clear to the community and result in more happiness with OB1 users, but have the tradeoffs. The question is, leave it a bike or make it an offroad truck?

Thank you!

The truck icon (OB logo?) or the 4wd icon referenced above by OTH would be preferable to a bike. Also as pointed out, a "Caution" about non-motorized trail possibilities would be good enough to get started.
Maybe input from members as the app is used could be gleaned to fine-tune the maps/layers to omit the foot/bike paths from potential routes?
-Dan

 

[Michael]

I am pretty sure that Gaia is using the same routing process we are - this information is crowd-sourced largely from the OSM project which has the meta-data for route class - which is interpreted by route algs including ours. So, it is no wonder they have the same Car, Bike, Hike, Straight route modes we have. That's all that is available.

We WILL be going much further into routing, but we want to get MVP into your hands. Many of the "could we do this" is absolutely possible, but I don't want to push routing MVP (which is quite good) back a few months.

To answer your question @Ubiety it could indeed allow you to create a route on a bike path, but that allows you to route on MVUM routes.

I like the idea about a caution. I'll see how we can do that.

We will also continue R&D in this area.

 

[Michael]

I agree with @Ubiety that most of us do not use overlanding nav software in cities or for general urban routing, When planning for exploration, there should be some responsibility by the user to make sure you are selecting roads approved for the means of travel you will be using, i.e. car vs foot vs motorcyle or side by side, (using the approprate map layer (MVUM for example) with that in mind, i think the workaround of using the 'bike' tool to route via non paved roads would be acceptable (and agree that some type of non denominational 4x4 symbol such as this View attachment 235570 that does not irritate any brand loyal users..lol would be a better choice than a bicyle) and if not possible to have non approved for vehicle roads marked with warnings as has been suggested, then perhaps a global warning when you select that button such as "please be advised this tool may route you on non-motorized routes, use at your discretion" may be appropriate. When using Gaia to create routes by selecting roads, it does seem to let you select most any road, FS, and also hiking trails etc and routes along them without neededing to change the routing type, so it seems like it should be possible to do with one button? howerver there is also no provide warning when selecting a walking path either. (when routing by clicking a location only it sends you to google maps which does route along FS roads also. Looking forward to playing with the new feature when it comes out. and Thanks for soliciting our random advice and ramblings during the development, much appreciated.

Re getting feedback we are building for the community and while the dev team are also members of the communities, and overlanders - we sometimes get tunnel-vision - we need you guys to keep us on track! Eyes on the prize - stay focused.

 

[Michael]

What do you guys think of this little guy? It is our offroad trail icon from the map:

 

[OTH Overland]

Re getting feedback we are building for the community and while the dev team are also members of the communities, and overlanders - we sometimes get tunnel-vision - we need you guys to keep us on track! Eyes on the prize - stay focused.

I totally get it, spend most of my time at work in R&D now, and its so easy to ..... squirrel .... get distracted. .. wait there is a prize?... from the end goal. You and your team have made great strides with the app in a short time, and for what its worth I don't think there is someone at Gaia wanting our input.. lol

 

[OTH Overland]

What do you guys think of this little guy? It is our offroad trail icon from the map:
View attachment 235591

View attachment 235592

I love it, however due to my obsession with Jeeps, I might be a bit biased, but that particular one does represent off road heritage well, and a nod to those who drove them while serving our country.

 

[El-Dracho]

I think it's great that the community is involved in such questions.

I understand the advantages and disadvantages of both icons. And here are some really good thoughts about it. However, I would still prefer the off-road truck. Because it is first of all about the route planning of a route off paved roads not not a bicylce track.

When I am taking a paper map and concentrate on a route planning to include as small as possible unpaved roads, it can also happen to me that I suddenly stand in front of a route, where I can not get through, perhaps because my vehicle is too wide or too high. That's why I check such things with a satellite map in advance. There you can already estimate very well whether it could work or not. So I would also check a route planned using autorouting again before I drive it (not in onroad mode, of course). And then I would see that a bike path or something similar has just been included there, which I can not drive.

I like the offroad trail icon form the map. If it became that, we would also have some consistency within the app instead of another icon.

Bjoern

 

[Ubiety]

That's why I check such things with a satellite map in advance. There you can already estimate very well whether it could work or not.

I wish this worked for me :( Given the tree cover where I live looking at sat maps to judge a road is hit or miss.

 

[Michael]

OK - this is now in the app (poll resulted in a unanimous decision by ya'll). I will also include some kind of warning in MVP as well. You know, "use your best adulting"). Looks like this for now:


I think that is a little small so we'll iterate on that.

 

[Ubiety]

I think that is a little small so we'll iterate on that.

Agree, stretch the wheelbase and make it a Gladiator ;) Hahahahaha. Kidding, love the old Jeep just could not help myself. Looks great! Thank you!

 

[Overland Omnivore]

Very exciting! We are just about to release MVP of route planning in the OB1 app and it would be great to get a little feedback from you on one of the more challenging route planning options. The challenge is making it clear to you what is happening. We have four Route planning modes between waypoints and you can change modes any time. The modes are:

Car: This will route along maintained roads. Think Waze, Google, Apple maps.
Bike: This includes unmaintained roads like Forest Service roads and other paths - with a couple complications: 1. It will include paths you really should not be driving on 2. It optimizes routes in cities along roads with bike paths.
Walking: Hiking and walking paths.
Bird: As the bird flies. This is a straight line between waypoints.

View attachment 235560
The complication is bike paths. If you start routing with OB1 and start plotting points on a forest service road in "Car" mode, it will not route along the road. Switching to Bike mode, it will route. If we make that icon an offroad truck, it will route correctly, but also have the anomalies mentioned above. I thing the offroad truck will be most clear to the community and result in more happiness with OB1 users, but have the tradeoffs. The question is, leave it a bike or make it an offroad truck?

Thank you!

Offroad truck. The issues I have run into building routes is the level of difficulty of any given road and the apps liken GAIA and HEMA (which I am the most familiar) can’t tell the difference between a foot/bike path and a road. Or local restrictions such as gates, or unlicensed OHVs use only. I have plotted out many routes that when you get out on the track have some issue. That being said, I don’t mind altering my track while I’m out there (which opens a can of worms of editing tracks within the app) but others may not be as skilled at using maps (paper or digital) as I am and may get their feathers ruffled when the track they are following doesn’t go as planned.

There are a couple of things I think could be done to help this. Routes could have a designation that shows that they have been traveled or are routes that have been purposes but not completely traveled. For example, right now I am putting together what I call the Midwest Grand Circumnavigation. I have been using gravelmaps.com and GAIA along with other sources to piece the route together. I’ve personally traveled about half of the route but have been stitching together the rest of it. If I publish it before doing the whole route then someone decides to go out a do a section or even the whole thing they may get the impression that it’s a well know route when it is not. Being able to tell at a glance if it is well traveled or fresh to the community would help.

One more thing I think would help would be voice turn by turn. I know that it’s a big leap to get to that stage but that missing piece would help out more than anything and put OB1 into a league with the likes of Apple, Google and Waze but for the Offroad community.

Safe Travels and I hope the see you out there…

 

[kunstmilch]

Very exciting! We are just about to release MVP of route planning in the OB1 app and it would be great to get a little feedback from you on one of the more challenging route planning options. The challenge is making it clear to you what is happening. We have four Route planning modes between waypoints and you can change modes any time. The modes are:

Car: This will route along maintained roads. Think Waze, Google, Apple maps.
Bike: This includes unmaintained roads like Forest Service roads and other paths - with a couple complications: 1. It will include paths you really should not be driving on 2. It optimizes routes in cities along roads with bike paths.
Walking: Hiking and walking paths.
Bird: As the bird flies. This is a straight line between waypoints.

View attachment 235560
The complication is bike paths. If you start routing with OB1 and start plotting points on a forest service road in "Car" mode, it will not route along the road. Switching to Bike mode, it will route. If we make that icon an offroad truck, it will route correctly, but also have the anomalies mentioned above. I thing the offroad truck will be most clear to the community and result in more happiness with OB1 users, but have the tradeoffs. The question is, leave it a bike or make it an offroad truck?

Thank you!

I dont think leaving it a bike is as clear or useful, but that is a big caveat. Apple and google both have bike navigation, i have no issue with simply using that navigation for that type of travel, what im looking for is overlanding navigation right? So i need to know once the other navigation apps are done, that ob1 can lead me through a mountain pass without spending half a day going through a mountain pass only to have to turn around cause it isn’t actually a trail.

 

[zgfiredude]

@Michael Is the routing feature going to be Google/Apple maps based? Or will you have the ability to create your own route down various roads/trails? And, if it's able to do the latter, will the selected route "snap to the road"?

Thx