What makes a car capable enough to join the OB trips?

[theoutbackdream]

Hello all,

To start this off:
I own a 2012 Impreza 2.0i and i've lifted it with 1" spacers. I opted to go with spacers since I don't want to shell out $400+ on springs, and have to spend more money on top to accommodate the lift, adjusting for camber, etc. My last trip to a dirt trail, I found my self always worried about damaging the oil pan, so I always turned back. More than likely I could've kept going, but it wasn't worth the risk. I did bottom out on the pinch welds trying to go down a hill. haha

Why I posted this?
I'd love to join in on the overland meets/trips, like the Mojave Road trail trip OB members are on currently(since I'm not even that far from there), but my main concern is they've got some maybe 9"+ ground clearance, lockers(maybe), good approach/departure angles, Low range, etc. Good attributes to go wheeling. To compare, I've got a measly 7", if that, of ground clearance, AWD and that's about it..

So.. I'm wondering...
What makes a car capable enough to join the OB trips?

Currently i'm in the midst of looking for a Xterra or 4runner, but I doubt i'll be purchasing one until the end of the year, or closer to then.

Thanks

 

[Gary Stevens]

I think it is knowing your limitations and having gear that will get you out of trouble. Knowing where you are going, and what the capibilities of your rig are. I have a 2wd Nissan Rogue. It is my daily driver, and I have to keep that at the fore front of whatever I do. I would like to do that Mojave Road trip, but I simply do not have that capability and don't want to put anyone out. So I stay on generally dirt roads, that were improved at some point. I am not crawling up or down any rocks, nor do I want to. At some point I may buy something used to do this, but till than I go only where I know I can, but I still have fun and find great places.

 

[Luis Merlo]

Choose your path....look for obstacles, you will be surprised how far low clearance will get you...and stay safe !

 

[MA_Trooper]

This is a great question. It can seem overwhelming to jump into a trip when everyone going is all kitted out and you have a fairly stock low clearance vehicle. My recommendation is to jump in to the conversations during the planning of the trip and ask questions about the terrain. The people planning the trip almost always have some experience with the route and can help you decide if it is doable for you. We strive to be an inclusive community here and we try our best to have a little of something for everyone. Sometimes a trip is just not going to be doable, but I think you'll find that there are lots of trips that are.

 

[chrispartida]

I own a 2012 Impreza 2.0i and i've lifted it with 1" spacers. I opted to go with spacers since I don't want to shell out $400+ on springs, and have to spend more money on top to accommodate the lift, adjusting for camber, etc... I did bottom out on the pinch welds trying to go down a hill. haha.

Body spacers aren't going to give you clearance from the ground, only space above your tire. Spending a bit more on springs/shocks should give that to you, if you want it.

Having said that, 7" is not a small amount, and I'd say is very capable. Just memorize where your low points are, and drive cautiously.

The Water Crossing at Mojave was the reason why I am currently at home (even with 2WD). I don't have a snorkel, and don't plan to get one. I do plan on extending my rear diff breather, but it wasn't done yet. Having lost one vehicle in a water crossing (YJ), I didn't want to hydrolock a 2nd.

Like others said, know your limitations and wheel cautiously.



-CP TACO
OB #2376

 

[theoutbackdream]

I think it is knowing your limitations and having gear that will get you out of trouble. Knowing where you are going, and what the capibilities of your rig are. I have a 2wd Nissan Rogue. It is my daily driver, and I have to keep that at the fore front of whatever I do. I would like to do that Mojave Road trip, but I simply do not have that capability and don't want to put anyone out. So I stay on generally dirt roads, that were improved at some point. I am not crawling up or down any rocks, nor do I want to. At some point I may buy something used to do this, but till than I go only where I know I can, but I still have fun and find great places.

I think you do have a point. But how can you test what your limitations are? I mean obviously, don't go over a huge bolder when you've only got 6" of ground clearance, but what about something that may look possible to do... How do you know when and where you've crossed that line?

Yea, I don't plan to crawl up or down any rocks. I'd just like to have some dirt roads with a little technicality to them honestly. :)

 

[theoutbackdream]

Depends on what the trip is. Last weekend I was out with two other members and besides the 2ft+ deep flooded road river crossing you would have been just fine. Some of the potholes may have slowed you down a little more than us though.

Hmmm, good to know! BTW, dumb question, are AT tires necessary to be off-roading?

Choose your path....look for obstacles, you will be surprised how far low clearance will get you...and stay safe !

You do have a point. I think this applies to any rig though realistically, to some degree.

This is a great question. It can seem overwhelming to jump into a trip when everyone going is all kitted out and you have a fairly stock low clearance vehicle. My recommendation is to jump in to the conversations during the planning of the trip and ask questions about the terrain. The people planning the trip almost always have some experience with the route and can help you decide if it is doable for you. We strive to be an inclusive community here and we try our best to have a little of something for everyone. Sometimes a trip is just not going to be doable, but I think you'll find that there are lots of trips that are.

That's very good to know. Maybe next time i'm able to join the adventure, I'll go ahead and do that. Honestly, you are right though.. When I first read about the Mojave trip, I was extremely happy to even see it. But judging by the rigs that planned to go, I gave it second thought. Then I thought about what kind of rigs even go to the Mojave, and then I realized... Maybe my car will get destroyed.. haha

 

[theoutbackdream]

Body spacers aren't going to give you clearance from the ground, only space above your tire. Spending a bit more on springs/shocks should give that to you, if you want it.

Having said that, 7" is not a small amount, and I'd say is very capable. Just memorize where your low points are, and drive cautiously.

The Water Crossing at Mojave was the reason why I am currently at home (even with 2WD). I don't have a snorkel, and don't plan to get one. I do plan on extending my rear diff breather, but it wasn't done yet. Having lost one vehicle in a water crossing (YJ), I didn't want to hydrolock a 2nd.

Like others said, know your limitations and wheel cautiously.



-CP TACO
OB #2376

I'm confused. I was under the impression that body spacers do give me a bit more clearance.. and I did gain clearance after the install.. What do you mean?

After you said that, glad I didn't go.... How bad is the water crossing there? Is a snorkel a must?

 

[chrispartida]

I'm confused. I was under the impression that body spacers do give me a bit more clearance.. and I did gain clearance after the install.. What do you mean?

After you said that, glad I didn't go.... How bad is the water crossing there? Is a snorkel a must?

It gives more of an appearance of leveling out your body, but it doesn't do a lot for undercarriage clearance.

With all the rain we've got the last few months, I read a few times it's deep. Though I can't verify if it's snorkel deep. But definitely want to be safe.


-CP TACO
OB #2376

 

[theoutbackdream]

Depending on the road AT tires are not needed at all. I've done plenty of FS roads with street tires (the old Z800 Ultra from Les Schwab).

When should I begin to consider AT tires?

It gives more of an appearance of leveling out your body, but it doesn't do a lot for undercarriage clearance.

With all the rain we've got the last few months, I read a few times it's deep. Though I can't verify if it's snorkel deep. But definitely want to be safe.


-CP TACO
OB #2376

Sorry for being a complete idiot/noob about this.. But lets say we get a shock/strut combo that is a 3" lift from stock height. Wouldn't it ultimately be the same as putting a 3" spacer kit on? In my mind it does..

Hmm, good to know..

 

[MA_Trooper]

No apologies needed here. Your questions are exactly the reason this forum exists. The community is here to help.

A shock/strut lifts everything attached to your frame up from the axel or in your case gives your ifs/rfs more travel and allows the fitment of larger tires. A body lift only lifts the body (cabin) up off the frame. A body lift does not grant you more travel. Ultimately, if clearance is your goal, bigger tires are needed. Both routes give you room for more tire but the body lift still leaves the frame and all the parts attached to it exposed as it was not lifted with the body. The other thing to note is that a big suspension lift in a vehicle other ifs and/or rfs means more than just the shocks and struts. If you lift more than an inch or two the increased angle your half shafts are at will put a lot of wear and rear on your joints and you will blow through CV boots and often the joints themselves much quicker. So you have a big decision. I don't know much about Subarus but I would imagine anything more than an inch or two in a suspension lift would cause you problems later on. A simple body lift won't necessarily give you the clearance you are hoping for. So you need to ask yourself what your goals are.
Like someone mentioned before, 7 inches of clearance is nothing to scoff at. That, I believe, is more clearance than a stock Cherokee. And in an experienced drivers hands is plenty to do most of what folks do for overlanding. The best lift kit is actually practice, knowledge of your approach/departure/break over angles and learning how to approach obstacles.

 

[RyanC]

No apologies needed here. Your questions are exactly the reason this forum exists. The community is here to help.

A shock/strut lifts everything attached to your frame up from the axel or in your case gives your ifs/rfs more travel and allows the fitment of larger tires. A body lift only lifts the body (cabin) up off the frame. A body lift does not grant you more travel. Ultimately, if clearance is your goal, bigger tires are needed. Both routes give you room for more tire but the body lift still leaves the frame and all the parts attached to it exposed as it was not lifted with the body. The other thing to note is that a big suspension lift in a vehicle other ifs and/or rfs means more than just the shocks and struts. If you lift more than an inch or two the increased angle your half shafts are at will put a lot of wear and rear on your joints and you will blow through CV boots and often the joints themselves much quicker. So you have a big decision. I don't know much about Subarus but I would imagine anything more than an inch or two in a suspension lift would cause you problems later on. A simple body lift won't necessarily give you the clearance you are hoping for. So you need to ask yourself what your goals are.
Like someone mentioned before, 7 inches of clearance is nothing to scoff at. That, I believe, is more clearance than a stock Cherokee. And in an experienced drivers hands is plenty to do most of what folks do for overlanding. The best lift kit is actually practice, knowledge of your approach/departure/break over angles and learning how to approach obstacles.

A spacer lift on a Subaru is different from a body lift on a vehicle with a frame. The spacers go at the top of the springs and shocks. That moves the whole independent suspension arm down by the size of the spacer while retaining the full amount of up and down travel. It does however have the same effect on cv joints that a traditional lift has.

So a 1 inch spacer lift on a unibody vehicle gains you one inch of clearance.

Edit: At least, that's what I learned when I researched it while fantasizing about taking a wrx on trails.

Sent from my SM-G920V using OB Talk mobile app

 

[Brooks Travel Adventures]

No apologies needed here. Your questions are exactly the reason this forum exists. The community is here to help.

A shock/strut lifts everything attached to your frame up from the axel or in your case gives your ifs/rfs more travel and allows the fitment of larger tires. A body lift only lifts the body (cabin) up off the frame. A body lift does not grant you more travel. Ultimately, if clearance is your goal, bigger tires are needed. Both routes give you room for more tire but the body lift still leaves the frame and all the parts attached to it exposed as it was not lifted with the body. The other thing to note is that a big suspension lift in a vehicle other ifs and/or rfs means more than just the shocks and struts. If you lift more than an inch or two the increased angle your half shafts are at will put a lot of wear and rear on your joints and you will blow through CV boots and often the joints themselves much quicker. So you have a big decision. I don't know much about Subarus but I would imagine anything more than an inch or two in a suspension lift would cause you problems later on. A simple body lift won't necessarily give you the clearance you are hoping for. So you need to ask yourself what your goals are.
Like someone mentioned before, 7 inches of clearance is nothing to scoff at. That, I believe, is more clearance than a stock Cherokee. And in an experienced drivers hands is plenty to do most of what folks do for overlanding. The best lift kit is actually practice, knowledge of your approach/departure/break over angles and learning how to approach obstacles.

Does the is hold true on a unibody vehicle like the Subaru as the spacers for the lift actually go on top of the struts? I understand spacers that lift the body off the frame not improving ground clearance but spacers on the actual suspension should work like a suspension lift. I a, running a Honda Pilot and looking at the 2" lift that goes on the top of the suspension as there are no other lifts for my vehicle.


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[MA_Trooper]

Does the is hold true on a unibody vehicle like the Subaru as the spacers for the lift actually go on top of the struts? I understand spacers that lift the body off the frame not improving ground clearance but spacers on the actual suspension should work like a suspension lift. I a, running a Honda Pilot and looking at the 2" lift that goes on the top of the suspension as there are no other lifts for my vehicle.


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I forgot about the uni-body. So yes, you will get some clearance, but still not going to have increased travel as that is gained by the longer springs/struts. And keep in mind that actual clearance/height gain is really achieved by increased tire size. so if you only do the spacers then, sure you gain a little, but its not anything like what larger tires will give you.

Edit: And as mentioned above, this has the same affect on your CV joints as a suspension lift.

 

[Steve]

Yep, Subaru spacer lifts go on top of the struts under the body. It truly lifts the entire vehicle. Anderson makes spacer lifts up to 4" for Outback and Forester models. I'm not sure about Impreza. Near 2" of spacer lift, there are additional parts needed/included to space the differential back down to avoid CV joint problems.

My 2008 Outback had 3/4" spacers and oversized AT tires. That gave me 9" of ground clearance.

In answer to the tire question, you would go to AT tires when your all season tires run out of grip or are not strong enough for the conditions. Simply moving from P tires to LT tires will give you better sidewall protection. I had Geolandar AT tires on my Outback.


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[chrispartida]

Pardon my ignorance. I had no idea Subaru spacers worked in this fashion. Learned something today.


-CP TACO
OB #2376

 

[RyanC]

Pardon my ignorance. I had no idea Subaru spacers worked in this fashion. Learned something today.


-CP TACO
OB #2376

I try to learn something new every day. It's a big part of what got me into overlanding.

Sent from my SM-G920V using OB Talk mobile app

 

[MikeyFoz]

In a very similar boat here, I've a 2015 Forester with no lift and stock tires leaving me with about 8.9inches of clearance in the front and 12 in the back. The main problem I see with a Subaru for overlanding is how low the critical driveline and engine components sit. Just like OP mentioned earlier, these oil pans can get crunched if you're not careful. That being said, I'm curious if anybody builds really rock solid underbody armor for these models. I know primitive racing is out there but there's gotta be somebody else building sliders or other things like that, hopefully for lower cost.

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[Raul B]

I also agree that it depends on the trip. My last trip with OB members was to Joshua tree. Any 2wd car could have made it to our camp site.....

Sent from my SM-G930T using OB Talk mobile app

 

[theoutbackdream]

No apologies needed here. Your questions are exactly the reason this forum exists. The community is here to help.

A shock/strut lifts everything attached to your frame up from the axel or in your case gives your ifs/rfs more travel and allows the fitment of larger tires. A body lift only lifts the body (cabin) up off the frame. A body lift does not grant you more travel. Ultimately, if clearance is your goal, bigger tires are needed. Both routes give you room for more tire but the body lift still leaves the frame and all the parts attached to it exposed as it was not lifted with the body. The other thing to note is that a big suspension lift in a vehicle other ifs and/or rfs means more than just the shocks and struts. If you lift more than an inch or two the increased angle your half shafts are at will put a lot of wear and rear on your joints and you will blow through CV boots and often the joints themselves much quicker. So you have a big decision. I don't know much about Subarus but I would imagine anything more than an inch or two in a suspension lift would cause you problems later on. A simple body lift won't necessarily give you the clearance you are hoping for. So you need to ask yourself what your goals are.
Like someone mentioned before, 7 inches of clearance is nothing to scoff at. That, I believe, is more clearance than a stock Cherokee. And in an experienced drivers hands is plenty to do most of what folks do for overlanding. The best lift kit is actually practice, knowledge of your approach/departure/break over angles and learning how to approach obstacles.

Don't want to be bothersome, and trust me i've tried googling around to even understand what it all means before typing it out. Just worried i'd get flamed. lol

Even reading over what you've typed, I'm still very confused.

Reason being, I do understand that a shock/strut lift setup does increase travel, changes driving characteristics because of spring rates, dampening, etc. But what I don't get is.. Let's say from the shock mount point on the frame to the eye of strut mount to the control arm. Let's say Company X has a strut/shock combo that lifts the vehicle 3", so from the shock mount point to the eye of the strut mount, it's 30". Then a spacer lift that does the same 3", and brings the stock strut from 27" to 30", much like Company X's strut/shock combo. Ignoring other characteristics that may change how much of a lift you get, isn't it ultimately the same? I think this is the issue i'm having going around in my head.

Or we talking about two completely different things? I'm talking about the spacer that goes on top of the tophat.

I don't get how the spacer lift doesn't lift the car since I've been looking at some spacer kits for the 4runner, and it appears that the whole car got lifted even with stock tires? Am I missing something here?