Vehicle Opinions

[MOAK]

Saw a documentary about Iceland volcanos and another on Egyptian archaeology. All they were driving was those Toyota Land Cruisers. Made me wish Jepp would get its head out of its butte and make the grand Cherokee a serious contender

Ya, jeep lost its way when they built the big wrangler back in 2006 in an attempt to make it more bling & luxury instead of utility. Imagine if the 70 series had been exported to the US. Well, we got the 80- be happy we got that.

 

[Dysan]

Thanks for the replies

@ThundahBeagle You must have had a 99 to 04 Grand Cherokee, I only say that because I had a 99 Grand Cherokee that had those same issues. Haven't heard that from the newer Grands. As for the Nissan Armada, luckily they do not have the not so good 3.5 or 3.7 V6 or the CVT transmission but have the 5.6 V8 with a normal 7 speed transmission which I have heard are pretty good.

@MOAK I would love a Landcruiser / LX if I could find one in my price point, I think I have seen 1 for sale in the last 3 weeks.

@genocache While a Land Rover Defender 130 sounds nice, those are way over my budget.

 

[MOAK]

Thanks for the replies

@ThundahBeagle You must have had a 99 to 04 Grand Cherokee, I only say that because I had a 99 Grand Cherokee that had those same issues. Haven't heard that from the newer Grands. As for the Nissan Armada, luckily they do not have the not so good 3.5 or 3.7 V6 or the CVT transmission but have the 5.6 V8 with a normal 7 speed transmission which I have heard are pretty good.

@MOAK I would love a Landcruiser / LX if I could find one in my price point, I think I have seen 1 for sale in the last 3 weeks.

@genocache While a Land Rover Defender 130 sounds nice, those are way over my budget.

Yes, it is rare for folks to sell good examples. They can be found selling anywhere from about 7,000 and up, but for 7k be ready to dump another 7k into it. The good examples? The sky is the limit, 20k and up! Be patient, the wait would be well worth it.

 

[tjZ06]

Ya, jeep lost its way when they built the big wrangler back in 2006 in an attempt to make it more bling & luxury instead of utility. Imagine if the 70 series had been exported to the US. Well, we got the 80- be happy we got that.

I have a hard time agreeing that Jeep lost its way back then. You can still get a 2 door JL, which is a pretty small vehicle by the metric of something that has to meet current crash test regulations. You can also get a JLUR Xtreme Recon with factory 35"s (on "beadlock capable" wheels that are a beadlock if you just remount the tires in that config), 4.56 gears, pretty legit sliders/skids, and metal winch-ready bumpers bone-stock from the factory (not dealer installed stuff). Obviously being a Rubicon it has front/rear lockers, front electronic disconnecting swaybar, and you can still option the 4.0 Low t-case (though most would be better served by the 2.7 Low with the ZF8's 4.7:1 first and the 4.56:1s in the axles). It's basically impossible to argue that any mass-produced regular passenger vehicle has ever been more capable than that. Get it w/ the 2.0T and it's even semi-efficient (massively efficient by the standard of "a Jeep on 35"s").

-TJ

 

[orange01z28]

I have a hard time agreeing that Jeep lost its way back then. You can still get a 2 door JL, which is a pretty small vehicle by the metric of something that has to meet current crash test regulations. You can also get a JLUR Xtreme Recon with factory 35"s (on "beadlock capable" wheels that are a beadlock if you just remount the tires in that config), 4.56 gears, pretty legit sliders/skids, and metal winch-ready bumpers bone-stock from the factory (not dealer installed stuff). Obviously being a Rubicon it has front/rear lockers, front electronic disconnecting swaybar, and you can still option the 4.0 Low t-case (though most would be better served by the 2.7 Low with the ZF8's 4.7:1 first and the 4.56:1s in the axles). It's basically impossible to argue that any mass-produced regular passenger vehicle has ever been more capable than that. Get it w/ the 2.0T and it's even semi-efficient (massively efficient by the standard of "a Jeep on 35"s").

-TJ

 

[MOAK]

I have a hard time agreeing that Jeep lost its way back then. You can still get a 2 door JL, which is a pretty small vehicle by the metric of something that has to meet current crash test regulations. You can also get a JLUR Xtreme Recon with factory 35"s (on "beadlock capable" wheels that are a beadlock if you just remount the tires in that config), 4.56 gears, pretty legit sliders/skids, and metal winch-ready bumpers bone-stock from the factory (not dealer installed stuff). Obviously being a Rubicon it has front/rear lockers, front electronic disconnecting swaybar, and you can still option the 4.0 Low t-case (though most would be better served by the 2.7 Low with the ZF8's 4.7:1 first and the 4.56:1s in the axles). It's basically impossible to argue that any mass-produced regular passenger vehicle has ever been more capable than that. Get it w/ the 2.0T and it's even semi-efficient (massively efficient by the standard of "a Jeep on 35"s").

-TJ

And how much do they want for a speced out jeep with all that bling? The original Rubicon, I had one, was very affordable and somewhat dependable. How long do you think a new rubicon would last being used as a work vehicle on a farm, ranch or in petroleum or mining environment? If you think a long time, then why do no corporations use the jeep brand for work fleet vehicles? If the foundation of a truck is strong to begin with all that costly bling wouldn’t be necessary. Jeep has lost its way. One used to be able to buy a jeep with the confidence that you’d get about 150 k miles out of em, while actually using them, before anything major would go wrong. I’m still a big fan of CJs and TJs. It’s too bad that jeep took the wrong steroids.

 

[DintDobbs]

@MOAK You're not wrong, but let's not compare apples to oranges - how many companies do you suppose would need to use such a capable off-roader as a fleet vehicle? They would usually select a more sparsely-equipped, utilitarian vehicle with higher cargo and towing capacity (read: F-150, Silverado, Ram 1500) or a more passenger-oriented vehicle (Ford Edge/Escape, Jeep Compass/Renegade) would be preferred, depending on needs.

Only thing I can think of that you'd actually need to use such a well-outfitted vehicle as a fleet vehicle for, would be full-on safaris or off-road tours, and frankly, they use old-school Land Rovers and Hummers for those.

Only properly practical work-capable vehicle Jeep makes now is the Gladiator... and again, fleet buyers would prefer the cheaper alternatives, F-series, Silverados, and Rams.

Companies just don't want to pay the price for all that extra capability at the expense of cargo and towing capacity.

 

[MOAK]

@MOAK You're not wrong, but let's not compare apples to oranges - how many companies do you suppose would need to use such a capable off-roader as a fleet vehicle? They would usually select a more sparsely-equipped, utilitarian vehicle with higher cargo and towing capacity (read: F-150, Silverado, Ram 1500) or a more passenger-oriented vehicle (Ford Edge/Escape, Jeep Compass/Renegade) would be preferred, depending on needs.

Only thing I can think of that you'd actually need to use such a well-outfitted vehicle as a fleet vehicle for, would be full-on safaris or off-road tours, and frankly, they use old-school Land Rovers and Hummers for those.

Only properly practical work-capable vehicle Jeep makes now is the Gladiator... and again, fleet buyers would prefer the cheaper alternatives, F-series, Silverados, and Rams.

Companies just don't want to pay the price for all that extra capability at the expense of cargo and towing capacity.

Ok, I’m thinking in terms of long distance; long time, touring. Simplicity is where it’s at. There are only one or maybe two vehicles currently in production that fit that bill and we can’t get them here. Here in the US we do have a lot of older vehicles with long track records to choose from that fit that bill. I also think we have differing definitions of capability. Growing up we had a 1964 F100, I-6 three on the tree. That pickup truck was constantly overloaded, hauling hay, grain, livestock and pulling trailers full of hay, grain & livestock. That 64’ , as were many pick ups of that generation, one capable pickup truck. The only mod was a set of coil springs welded in as helpers. That truck never broke down in the 10 years we owned it. The 72 F-150 was put through the same torture. All we ever did was change the oil, the plugs and the points. Those old trucks were extraordinarily capable and would rust away to nothing before the drivetrains would even blink. If anything were to happen to my current 80, I’d be very tempted to find a pre-1990 f-250 highboy and start over with that. The only mod I would insist upon would be fuel injection. Look, if Jeeps were so spot on, then they would have overtaken the market share in Africa and Australia years ago. The last thing anyone needs is for their 75k vehicle to break down in truly the middle of nowhere, and have to walk away from it. Hummers as safari trucks? LOL. Google that one. BTW, my opinion is based upon the collective opinions of world class travelers and expedition leaders. Books and then later the internet opened up a whole new world for my vehicular choices. I still enjoy my 2wd 1990 Ranger as a daily driver, but for long distance, long term use as an overland vehicle? Hey, don’t get me wrong, if someone wants to go out and spend a ton of money on bling, more power to them. That’s what makes the world go round. Me and many others- no bling, we just want capability and we associate that closely with dependability. Ok, enough, I suppose I should gather all my thoughts, arrange them and write a book, but, too many places to go and too many places to experience. Peace out!

 

[tjZ06]

And how much do they want for a speced out jeep with all that bling? The original Rubicon, I had one, was very affordable and somewhat dependable. How long do you think a new rubicon would last being used as a work vehicle on a farm, ranch or in petroleum or mining environment? If you think a long time, then why do no corporations use the jeep brand for work fleet vehicles? If the foundation of a truck is strong to begin with all that costly bling wouldn’t be necessary. Jeep has lost its way. One used to be able to buy a jeep with the confidence that you’d get about 150 k miles out of em, while actually using them, before anything major would go wrong. I’m still a big fan of CJs and TJs. It’s too bad that jeep took the wrong steroids.

A 2006 Jeep Rubicon started at $27,620 in '05 (when they first went on sale) money. Adjusted for Bidenflation, that's $42,309.65. A 2023 Rubicon 2-door starts at $43,295 - we're talking $1k difference and you get a LOT more features/comfort in a JLR vs. a TJR. I'm not sure what the relevance of the "spec'ed out bling" version's price is, clearly that's not needed for Overlanding, or farm/ranch life. Sure, you'll be able to spend ~$90k on a 392 JLUR with the XTreme Recon and 25th Aniv packages (which actually brings 37" tires stock) but that's far, far from an apples to apples comparison with a TJR. The bottom line is you're paying about the same $ for a Rubicon now, as you did in 2006 and the current one is overall a much better vehicle. I honestly don't understand what you think won't last about it as compared to a TJ. The frame is superior, the axles are superior (yes, both are "Dana 44s" but the JL housings, Cs and some internals are better). And no, corporations don't use Jeeps as work fleet vehicles, but they ALSO didn't in the TJ-era, so what's your point? I think that has less to do with longevity of the brand/platform (you see plenty of other Stellantis products in fleets), and more that very, very, very, VERY few corporations have a use-case for a Rubicon. $43k is a lot of money for a small, 2-door vehicle if things like lockers and solid axles don't actually provide any value. A base 1/2 ton pickup is going to serve most corporations MUCH better than ANY Jeep. As for the "confidence to get 150k" out of a Jeep, I'm not sure that was EVER a thing. I can't think of one Jeep that won't have significant maintenance and probably some kind of major failure before 150k, but if I had to pick one to bet the farm on I'd probably be picking a JL with the 3.6 over any previous Jeep.

I get it, you don't like newer vehicles, and that's fine. I'm weird and love both old, and new tech.

-TJ

 

[orange01z28]

And what is "bling?"

Basic functional tech that even the cheapest crapboxes come with as a base model?

I do not understand why someone would pine for a vehicle that is worse both for its intended, off-road purpose as well as dealing with it on a day to day basis

It's like 60s musclecars. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE them, but at the end of the day if I have say $50k to spend I can get an awesome classic that will still overheat in traffic and run like 14s in the 1/4, or I can get a new Mustang that will run bottom 12s with the AC on and be able to be driven like any Camry all day every day

 

[rgallant]

Just thought I would pop in with a comment on jeeps as fleet vehicles - they are too small. The cargo space is almost non existent, and in fleet/farm vehicles it is all about cargo hauling not off road capability. I equate jeeps with Defender 90's if you want to go that way small personal transports.

But to the point the reason you see so many Toyotas and Land Rovers world wide is size and marketing, Jeep had North America and that seemed to be all they wanted so everyone else filled the gap

 

[tjZ06]

Just thought I would pop in with a comment on jeeps as fleet vehicles - they are too small. The cargo space is almost non existent, and in fleet/farm vehicles it is all about cargo hauling not off road capability. I equate jeeps with Defender 90's if you want to go that way small personal transports.

But to the point the reason you see so many Toyotas and Land Rovers world wide is size and marketing, Jeep had North America and that seemed to be all they wanted so everyone else filled the gap

Exactly, a corporation or municipality would have to have a VERY specific use-case to have a Jeep (as in Wrangler) as a fleet vehicle. That said, the Placer County Sherriff's Department has a pretty built Rubicon for patrolling/rescue on... The Rubicon.

-TJ

 

[genocache]

I used to work in a cement plant with a quarry. They didn't buy vehicles they leased them. Basic Ford pickups for all the managers and some jobs that needed to carry big stuff. For the quarry crew and security it was basic Jeep cherokee's. The cherokees rarely broke down and the security patrolled 10,000 acres of watershed while the quarry crew hammered them in the mud with different drivers. The biggest issue was the door hinges would rust off the firewall and need to be rewelded.

 

[tjZ06]

I used to work in a cement plant with a quarry. They didn't buy vehicles they leased them. Basic Ford pickups for all the managers and some jobs that needed to carry big stuff. For the quarry crew and security it was basic Jeep cherokee's. The cherokees rarely broke down and the security patrolled 10,000 acres of watershed while the quarry crew hammered them in the mud with different drivers. The biggest issue was the door hinges would rust off the firewall and need to be rewelded.

I see you're in Boulder Creek, was that the cement plant out on the coast above Santa Cruz you worked at?

-TJ

 

[orange01z28]

I see you're in Boulder Creek, was that the cement plant out on the coast above Santa Cruz you worked at?

-TJ

Wasn't there a cement plant in Moss Landing too?

 

[tjZ06]

Wasn't there a cement plant in Moss Landing too?

Big power plant, I was actually driving by it the other day, most of it is being decommissioned/torn down. I believe the two big iconic cooling towers (aka "smoke stacks") will be coming down. Sort of sad, it's like our Battersea.

-TJ

 

[DintDobbs]

@MOAK May be I'm misunderstanding, but if you're looking for high-mileage reliability, Land Rover isn't in the game. They do tours in Hummers all over the place on the US east coast, the first-gen civ Hummers are a big deal for tourists on NC's Outer Banks.

Companies rebuild Land Rover Defenders from the '80s and '90s, upgrade the electronics, and distribute them for hundreds of thousands of dollars worldwide, for expeditions, safaris, tourists, and enthusiasts.

I don't remember ever insinuating that either Hummers or Land Rovers were reliable. They are both capable, but the only fleet use I am aware of is for tours and safaris. I don't know of any company that would use them as work trucks.

I'll just retreat to my bunker now.

 

[Arailt]

Unfortunately, the Landcruiser, GX 460 and older 4 Runner are hard to find in my area.

The only thing I'd touch in the mileage ranges you posted are Toyotas. Maybe a v8 GM. Keep an eye on DFW listings. Take an overnight trip east and pick one up.

 

[DintDobbs]

@Dysan I'm gonna have to give, stick with the 'Yotas. They're tried and true, and expensive. Life is expensive. Get a Toyota before they become even more expensive, because by the time one turns 500k miles, the "HALF-MILLION MILES!" advertisements will hit the broad scope of the Internet, and then they'll be unaffordable to the middle class.

 

[MOAK]

@MOAK May be I'm misunderstanding, but if you're looking for high-mileage reliability, Land Rover isn't in the game. They do tours in Hummers all over the place on the US east coast, the first-gen civ Hummers are a big deal for tourists on NC's Outer Banks.

Companies rebuild Land Rover Defenders from the '80s and '90s, upgrade the electronics, and distribute them for hundreds of thousands of dollars worldwide, for expeditions, safaris, tourists, and enthusiasts.

I don't remember ever insinuating that either Hummers or Land Rovers were reliable. They are both capable, but the only fleet use I am aware of is for tours and safaris. I don't know of any company that would use them as work trucks.

I'll just retreat to my bunker now.
Ya, I’m not being clear. Sorry bout that. Hummers & Landys are simply not reluabke enough. The Landy maybe if it were restored properly.. hey I like new vehicles too, it’s just sad we can’t get the best ones, of all types of vehicles, imported.