Undecided Rig

[Zagha725]

Hey guys,

Its an honor to be posting on this forum today. I have seen overlanding for a while but never really knew the direction to go in. I have looked at all kids of vehicles but wasn't really sure what the best fit for me would be. I am a 6'4 300 pound 21 year old that for some odd reason isn't very fond of large cars. I've mainly grown up driving smaller ones due to my family not being a similar size and stature as I. I have 4 vehicles I am looking into for overall practicality and use. I am looking at a Jeep Grand Cherokee, Dodge Dakota, Ford Explorer, and a Ford Ranger. All of these vehicles will likely be 04 or older due to insurance and cost of money for newer vehicles. Reason I have looked into these vehicles is for several reasons. The size isn't too large, the towing capacity with the correct options can be in between the 4000-6000 lbs range ( I wont be doing a lot of towing mainly just for buying furniture or towing a project vehicle from out of state ). My biggest concerns is how they drive, how rugged can they be, do I need to swap axels and drive trains, is the transfer case going to hold long term. Ive been a big ford guy from my grand father but not like the traditional ford f150 and mustang type. I love the ford explorers but done some research into them. I know they are prone to roll overs in the first and second gens due to a short wheel base, which I would assume that can be partially fixed with bigger tires and a wheel spacers for a wider wheel base. The Ranger and Explorers were built on the relatively same platform. Newer explorers are nice but tend to have horrible transmissions in the 3rd generation which makes me partially opt it out. Although I am not a big dodge guy, I have a buddy who has done some work to a grand Cherokee with a lift kit and all so I know where to start for the 4.7, and my step father has been doing some light off-road/towing work to an 04 Laredo with Quadro drive and is in the process up swapping in beefier axels and better gearing for the rear diff on the swapped axels. I have also considered a Honda cr-v 1st gen due to its rugged versatility.

My biggest thing is how would these handle in the conditions I would haver it in. And what would be the longevity of the vehicle and money invested to get it where it needs to be. I don't have a need for large mudding or rock crawling but simply just the normal trailing fun. I am open to other suggestions as to what vehicles would work for me. Money is a huge issue for me as I live on my own and am under the national income average when it comes to household revenue. I only counted out chevy due to the sheer expense of some vehicles and how some vehicles appear too small for what I need or way too big. Any suggestions and any point in direction as to how I should start my overlanding journey will be greatly appreciated. I am happy to see what you experts suggest!

 

[North American Sojourner]

The Jeep is a really good pick and so is the Ranger. You can't kill an older Ford Ranger and the Jeep is tried and true beastly.
Coin toss but the Jeep has more storage without spending a dime. (throwing a tarp over the bed of a truck is not protection) lol
Zim

 

[tjZ06]

The Grands you are considering would be ZJ ('93-98) and WJ ('99-04). Both are great options being solid front/rear axle with good 4x4 systems available. My personal preference would be a '02-04 Overland or Limited with the 4.7HO (standard on the Overland, optional on the Limited). IMHO the high-trim WJs really exemplify what makes a WJ awesome, and the V8 is much better suited to the platform (and gets a better trans). Also with Quadra-Drive you get Vari-Loks front, rear and center (think of them as very effective limited slips as opposed to true lockers).

That said you'll probably find the cockpit a bit cramped and there are known issues with the 4.7s that should be addressed for longevity (namely doing the heads with high quality remans with upgrade hardened steel, staked valve seats).

I could probably write a book on these things, so happy to share more if you decide to pursue a WJ.

-TJ

 

[OTH Overland]

I am about the same size as you, and we have a 2000 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited which I comfortably fit in. I second @tjZ06 comments above. We have the Quadra Drive II with the 4.7 and currently have around 230k miles on it, with about 130k of it since we have added a long arm suspension and slightly bigger than stock tires. The Jeep was totaled in a 6 car accident at 80k miles and we purchased it back and rebuilt it. They have their quirks and we have had issue with the radiator, a/c system and rebuilt the front axle. Still on the original engine, trans, and transfer case. Very capable off road and a super comfortable ride. With the rear seats folded and the fronts moved forward there is enough room for Michelle and I to sleep comfortably in the back, but we gave that up and installed a fridge and drawer system for storage and currently use a ground tent, although we are working on mounts to share the RTT from our Wrangler between the two rigs. The clear coat started peeling 4 years ago and we ended up spraying the whole rig with color matched raptor liner and its held up well. Iron Rock Offroad make a bunch of stuff for the WJ as do several other small manufactures, there were millions of these made so lots of parts on Craigslist and in the junk yards. I find used WJ's in good shape online all the time and the prices are getting very reasonable. It is a unibody vehicle rather than body on frame, but even after the wreck, long arming it and a lot of hard trail runs we have not had any issues with body / uni frame. Good luck with your search:)

 

[Zagha725]

The Grands you are considering would be ZJ ('93-98) and WJ ('99-04). Both are great options being solid front/rear axle with good 4x4 systems available. My personal preference would be a '02-04 Overland or Limited with the 4.7HO (standard on the Overland, optional on the Limited). IMHO the high-trim WJs really exemplify what makes a WJ awesome, and the V8 is much better suited to the platform (and gets a better trans). Also with Quadra-Drive you get Vari-Loks front, rear and center (think of them as very effective limited slips as opposed to true lockers).

That said you'll probably find the cockpit a bit cramped and there are known issues with the 4.7s that should be addressed for longevity (namely doing the heads with high quality remans with upgrade hardened steel, staked valve seats).

I could probably write a book on these things, so happy to share more if you decide to pursue a WJ.

-TJ

My step father has an 04 laredo that I learned to drive in. The cockpit is crammed yes bit its not overbearing as long as I raise the steering wheel and the interior is quite comfortable yet simplistic. Now ive heard the 4.0 is reliable due to its simplicity to work on. But they can have transmission and some transfer case issues. I've heard Quadro drive works great but that's when it works because it can be spotty or get stuck in gear in like 4 low. My buddy has a 4.7 and has messed with them left and right. i know the smaller hemis and oil sludge issues and this 4.7 has a headgasket issue also that can be prone to failure. The one upside is the after market support for the wjs. Im really only an 04 wj guy I've never really liked jeeps in general but the cherokees are a solid choice. The reason I would get a truck is for its true versatility and not needing a full trailer to move furniture and what not. I am also worried about how my selected options drive. The jeeps dont feel sluggish and jumpy like a trucks throttle responce due to torque. My biggest concerns is for the fords how well will the 4.0 ohv colognes hold up and do I need to do dif and axel swaps. Because I plan on keeping a vehicle like this for as long as possible. I have definitely considered a wj but looking at all modification and AM support and what the vehicles give me. I still not quite sure as to whats the best fit. Most issues that would coem up I would fix myself if possible. Replacing a bad trans which a lot of them wether a ford or dodge option has some transmission issues. But anyone who has owned a wj praises it so Its definitely an option and I know they can hold up im just not sure as to how to take it.

Thankyou for your advice it definitely helps me out!

 

[tjZ06]

Quadra Drive II

Quadra-Drive or Quadra-Trac II? Both run the 247 t-case, but only the QD has the Vari-Loks in the axles.

-TJ

 

[tjZ06]

My step father has an 04 laredo that I learned to drive in. The cockpit is crammed yes bit its not overbearing as long as I raise the steering wheel and the interior is quite comfortable yet simplistic. Now ive heard the 4.0 is reliable due to its simplicity to work on. But they can have transmission and some transfer case issues. I've heard Quadro drive works great but that's when it works because it can be spotty or get stuck in gear in like 4 low. My buddy has a 4.7 and has messed with them left and right. i know the smaller hemis and oil sludge issues and this 4.7 has a headgasket issue also that can be prone to failure. The one upside is the after market support for the wjs. Im really only an 04 wj guy I've never really liked jeeps in general but the cherokees are a solid choice. The reason I would get a truck is for its true versatility and not needing a full trailer to move furniture and what not. I am also worried about how my selected options drive. The jeeps dont feel sluggish and jumpy like a trucks throttle responce due to torque. My biggest concerns is for the fords how well will the 4.0 ohv colognes hold up and do I need to do dif and axel swaps. Because I plan on keeping a vehicle like this for as long as possible. I have definitely considered a wj but looking at all modification and AM support and what the vehicles give me. I still not quite sure as to whats the best fit. Most issues that would coem up I would fix myself if possible. Replacing a bad trans which a lot of them wether a ford or dodge option has some transmission issues. But anyone who has owned a wj praises it so Its definitely an option and I know they can hold up im just not sure as to how to take it.

Thankyou for your advice it definitely helps me out!

The OHC Ford 4.0s are super problematic, and known for timing chain issues which means pulling the t-case/trans because they run a jack-shaft through the engine to run a timing chain setup on the BACK of the engine for one of the banks. But you're right the OHV versions aren't bad, and it sounds like you're pretty familiar with them.

Back on the WJs, you're right in general the 4.0Ls are pretty reliable, though they have their own problems too and some are pretty serious like cracking heads (IIRC the years of 4.0s known for cracked heads are basically the same years WJs were made...). All WJs also have their nagging issues like blend doors, driver's door wiring harness, blower motor resistor, etc. In general you'll get a "nice" WJ for a lot less than say a "nice" 4Runner of a similar age/miles, but you'll have to put more work into the WJ in general. Myself, I'd find a nice Overland and eat the couple grand to have the heads done (less $ if you can do them yourself) right off the bat. But I'm super biased. ;)



-TJ

 

[socal66]

Prior to my current vehicle I overlanded for about 20 years in a 2000 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab. I really liked that truck and as such it was my primary vehicle for such a long time. It was in stock form with the exception of a good set of all terrain tires and would take me and my family pretty much wherever we camped and hiked. The truck was surprisingly agile and had very good road manners. One of the reasons it was stock was even back in the day lift kits and other aftermarket mods were few for this model and I think non-existent if you tried to look for them today. I had the 4.7 V8 with the 45RFE automatic and it was good in terms of performance. 5.9 V8 models will have slightly better performance but lower MPG and require 91 octane fuel. For me the truck was quite reliable with the only real issues being an alternator needing replacement and later on in life the heater core failed. The 4.7 configuration I had utilized 4 oxygen sensors 3 of which were a bear to get to and replace.

 

[Zagha725]

Prior to my current vehicle I overlanded for about 20 years in a 2000 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab. I really liked that truck and as such it was my primary vehicle for such a long time. It was in stock form with the exception of a good set of all terrain tires and would take me and my family pretty much wherever we camped and hiked. The truck was surprisingly agile and had very good road manners. One of the reasons it was stock was even back in the day lift kits and other aftermarket mods were few for this model and I think non-existent if you tried to look for them today. I had the 4.7 V8 with the 45RFE automatic and it was good in terms of performance. 5.9 V8 models will have slightly better performance but lower MPG and require 91 octane fuel. For me the truck was quite reliable with the only real issues being an alternator needing replacement and later on in life the heater core failed. The 4.7 configuration I had utilized 4 oxygen sensors 3 of which were a bear to get to and replace.

I wouldnt mind a dakota but my aim would be a 2 door extended because i don't like super big vehicles and the extended cab They also have the best look to me and i feel like the quad cabs feel super bulky but do not have enough bed room. They are also harder to find in good condition compared to any wj

 

[Zagha725]

The OHC Ford 4.0s are super problematic, and known for timing chain issues which means pulling the t-case/trans because they run a jack-shaft through the engine to run a timing chain setup on the BACK of the engine for one of the banks. But you're right the OHV versions aren't bad, and it sounds like you're pretty familiar with them.

Back on the WJs, you're right in general the 4.0Ls are pretty reliable, though they have their own problems too and some are pretty serious like cracking heads (IIRC the years of 4.0s known for cracked heads are basically the same years WJs were made...). All WJs also have their nagging issues like blend doors, driver's door wiring harness, blower motor resistor, etc. In general you'll get a "nice" WJ for a lot less than say a "nice" 4Runner of a similar age/miles, but you'll have to put more work into the WJ in general. Myself, I'd find a nice Overland and eat the couple grand to have the heads done (less $ if you can do them yourself) right off the bat. But I'm super biased. ;)

View attachment 251835

-TJ

A wj is definitely a top priority simply due to the fact that several people around me have done a lot of research on them already. Only bad thing wether tis regular cars, modded street cars, or offroaders. I like to be different and have as well as due whats not normal and expected to stand out. Only bad thing about a wj is that quite a few people have had them and its hard to find one that hasnt been stripped or touch in a harmful way.

 

[DintDobbs]

@Zagha725 What's wrong with a 1st-gen Durango? Instant Dakota SUV. I use mine to lug my 2nd-gen Explorers around (both the hated SOHC's, no timing chain noise at 190k and 220k, yes I have two of them) and have camped in it before. Big and small at the same time, very maneuverable for its size (Explorer is much more nimble) and if you get the 5.9L they're about invincible. Just keep the oil changed and plan on a new water pump every about 120k. For whatever reason mine chews through tensioner pulleys, not sure if this is a common problem. The aftermarket is limited, but lift kits do exist. Look for one with the 3.93 gears if you want to run oversized tires. Mine has 3.23 gears and they're taller than I like.

2nd-gen Explorers are too varied to just say they're good or bad. And they're so common that thousands of doofuses who ignored maintenance and didn't understand physics, destroyed them through operator error. The bad rep is largely subjective. The SOHC isn't the problem - poor maintenance practices are the problem. Tough luck finding one that has been maintained half decently, under 250k. If you do find one, either get the V8 or make sure it has 4.10 gears, or you can plan on regearing if you go bigger than 31's.

If you have specific questions about either, ask away, I've been building both a Durango (read: Dakota) and an Explorer for years.

 

[DintDobbs]

Since I can't post pics in messages, I'll post them here.

After wreck / After repairs / Towing Explorer / As she sits

 

[DintDobbs]

Explorer

Sitting pretty / Big tires, small lift / Big tires, big lift / Looking flexy

 

[MrWilsonWJ]

I've actually owned or long term drove for work all of the rigs you listed above. '03 Dakota 4.7l, 5 speed Mt, 1st and 2nd gen explorers, 1st and 2nd gen Rangers and my current '00 WJ. All of them have their pros and cons when it comes to reliability and usefulness. None of them have a lot of aftermarket support for off road. Ranger has some but mostly prerunner type stuff which a lot will cross over to the explorer. About the same amount for the WJ but mostly suspension stuff and some bumpers. Not much at all for the Dakota. Out of the box in stock form the Jeep is the most capable off road due to linked suspension front and rear plus the availability of vari lok axles on the Overland model. Doesn't have huge interior space for moving furniture but with the rear seats down it's decent and probably comparable to the explorer and close to the size of the pickup beds in question just don't have the height. I loved the Dakota I had with the 4.7 and manual transmission, raced a lot of rice burners around town with that thing. Problem with those is the torsion bar front suspension, lifts aren't as easy to come by and you always have the bars hanging down. But if you're only wanting to run slightly bigger tires and no lift then they sit a little higher than a ranger so you can go bigger without messing with the suspension. I think the extended cab Ranger has a bit more room than the Dakota so maybe more leg room and comfort. If I were in your shoes I would first decide whether I want a pickup or SUV, with pickups that size are you really gaining much extra space? Really only height, so there might still be times you'll need a trailer even with the pickup. But do you want something you can sleep inside and if so does that outweigh having to tow a trailer sometimes. Once you have it narrowed down between pickup or suv go test drive each of your choices to see what you like better. And then once you've figured all that out, go get a WJ! Like others I'm a little biased to the WJ because I currently have one and like it, it's probably my favorite out of the vehicles in question but maybe that's because I've put the most time and money in to it.

 

[orange01z28]

@tjZ06 and I were discussing the merits of WJs yesterday. There might not be a more capable and perfect vehicle for exactly what you're talking about

Another option I would consider though is a 3rd Gen 4Runner

 

[tjZ06]

@tjZ06 and I were discussing the merits of WJs yesterday. There might not be a more capable and perfect vehicle for exactly what you're talking about

Another option I would consider though is a 3rd Gen 4Runner

Good point on the 3rd Gen 4Runners, they had gotten out of control on pricing, but it seems like they're coming back down to reality (along w/ the rest of the used car market).

-TJ

 

[DintDobbs]

Might be hard to find one for a decent price, but a 2nd-gen 4Runner might be a good option as well. 3rd-gen 4Runner has a much more modern interior and suspension setup, compared with the brutish truck outfittings of the 2nd-gen, but that's part of what makes the 2nd-gen desirable, in the eyes of the minority.

Either is a good pick. You'll get similar reliability from a 2nd-gen Explorer/Ranger, 1st-gen Durango/Dakota, or 3rd-gen 4Runner/Tacoma (yes, I know the generations don't line up between the trucks and their SUV variants... Common sense is recommended).

 

[joshrom805]

The Grands you are considering would be ZJ ('93-98) and WJ ('99-04). Both are great options being solid front/rear axle with good 4x4 systems available. My personal preference would be a '02-04 Overland or Limited with the 4.7HO (standard on the Overland, optional on the Limited). IMHO the high-trim WJs really exemplify what makes a WJ awesome, and the V8 is much better suited to the platform (and gets a better trans). Also with Quadra-Drive you get Vari-Loks front, rear and center (think of them as very effective limited slips as opposed to true lockers).

That said you'll probably find the cockpit a bit cramped and there are known issues with the 4.7s that should be addressed for longevity (namely doing the heads with high quality remans with upgrade hardened steel, staked valve seats).

I could probably write a book on these things, so happy to share more if you decide to pursue a WJ.

-TJ

My wife and I inherited a WJ special edition and it's great. We haven't done anything to it at all yet. We take it on the sand dunes on occasion and just air down it does really well.

 

[MidOH]

Budget used vehicles for OL:

97 Jeep XJ with a manual.

98+ gas Ford Superduty. 08+ 250 or 350 have desirable dana60 front axles.

Landover Discovery. If you can wrench, which is why you see clean discos for dirt cheap.

 

[tjZ06]

I like your truck.

Thanks!

-TJ