The Zello Option

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ProtonDecay

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No problem. I guess this just isn't my crowd. I'll contact the administrators and have my account deleted.

Good luck all.
Hey, I hope you continue to participate. I have found your messages educational and thought provoking. Comms is a subject that quickly elicits passions, as most comms people have worked hard to develop their expertise. Couple that with anything "new" and you are bound to see some sparks fly. For example, I am working a thread re an overlanding Starlink build and while most people are supportive there are also some who don't see value in it. And that's OK! I had a passionate discussion with an Extra license holder last summer regarding Starlink - he was convinced some of "those useless hunks of tin" were going to fall and kill somebody, and then Elon would be strung up. I'll see him again this September and will kindly offer him a tasty cold beverage in exchange for updating each other on our views. In that spirit I hope you decide to stick around and continue contributing :-)
 
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Ubiety

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Personally however I get out and dont really like being connected.
Totally agree with that!

Does not look like Zello supports CarPlay - which is a no-brainer IMO. Unfortunately w/o CarPlay folks in WA cannot legally use the app (while driving) if it takes more than one touch to activate. Would rather not play in this gray area and risk getting pulled over...

As far as this being an overly negative thread I disagree. Opinions were offered and the discussion stayed polite. Folks are not always going to agree and that is life. We should be strong enough to disagree in a civil manner.

And as far as @ProtonDecay and his starlink go... ;) I get that he wants it but I am like @kunstmilch I get out to get away and don't want the internet. Its all good, we all have different desires and can choose to get along.
 
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TheBronze

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Regarding hands free, Zello can be set to toggle mode. To use it you simply touch the big button and it keys up. After you're done speaking you touch it again to unkey. That feature was made specifically for hands free operation in states that require it.

Here is an example of how it works:


Again, I only put it on here as an additional tool that people may want to use. I'm familiar with it and have used it extensively but I'm not trying to push it on anyone.
 

Ubiety

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Regarding hands free, Zello can be set to toggle mode. To use it you simply touch the big button and it keys up. After you're done speaking you touch it again to unkey. That feature was made specifically for hands free operation in states that require it.

Here is an example of how it works:


Again, I only put it on here as an additional tool that people may want to use. I'm familiar with it and have used it extensively but I'm not trying to push it on anyone.
Thanks, will take a look. I can certainly see its value when driving where there is cell service and coordinating a convoy and/or other coming in from different areas. Along these lines is Polaris' Ride Command app, its more made for Polaris vehicles with a special radio built in but it does allow you to use it via internet. Its strength is that it is APRS like as it shows group member's location on a map. Great for getting to a meetup using paved roads and for those occasional trips out of the wild places and into town to resupply - you can see where everybody is while in town; makes meeting back up way easier. As long as you have internet of course ;)
 

M Rose

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Regarding hands free, Zello can be set to toggle mode. To use it you simply touch the big button and it keys up. After you're done speaking you touch it again to unkey. That feature was made specifically for hands free operation in states that require it.

Here is an example of how it works:


Again, I only put it on here as an additional tool that people may want to use. I'm familiar with it and have used it extensively but I'm not trying to push it on anyone.
Will the service work over a mesh network?
 
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DRAX

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Will the service work over a mesh network?
No, there are radio-to-IP gateway devices similar to DMR/D-Star/Wires-X that allow traditional radios to work with preconfigured Zello users/channels, but when it comes to Zello it requires cellular or wifi connectivity to work. The stand-alone devices also require cellular or wifi, there is no way to use Zello "out of band" with no data.
 
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TheBronze

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No, there are radio-to-IP gateway devices similar to DMR/D-Star/Wires-X that allow traditional radios to work with preconfigured Zello users/channels, but when it comes to Zello it requires cellular or wifi connectivity to work. The stand-alone devices also require cellular or wifi, there is no way to use Zello "out of band" with no data.
Correct, the service only works where you have LTE or WiFi coverage. The advantage over calling and text is that it is a one to many type of communication instead of one to one. This makes it great for talking to travelers spread out over a huge area or when in a caravan type situation. Another advantage is that you can set up your own "channels" and they can be made either open OR private. This gives you the option of restricting it to only your group if that is desirable. I have two channels, one for my hiking group and one for my fellow retirees. I can leave both on all the time and for all practical purposes it acts like a big repeated radio system. We use it so much that I opted to get a separate device (Inrico T320) and use a Tello data card for $6.00 a month. Many of my friends just use the app on their phones and only sign on when we are heading out to an event.
 

DRAX

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Correct, the service only works where you have LTE or WiFi coverage. The advantage over calling and text is that it is a one to many type of communication instead of one to one. This makes it great for talking to travelers spread out over a huge area or when in a caravan type situation. Another advantage is that you can set up your own "channels" and they can be made either open OR private. This gives you the option of restricting it to only your group if that is desirable. I have two channels, one for my hiking group and one for my fellow retirees. I can leave both on all the time and for all practical purposes it acts like a big repeated radio system. We use it so much that I opted to get a separate device (Inrico T320) and use a Tello data card for $6.00 a month. Many of my friends just use the app on their phones and only sign on when we are heading out to an event.
I can see Zello being useful and I'll probably see about getting my wife and daughter onboard with trying it out. Thinking more like when we're out and about (shopping, walking around town, etc) and calling or texting are less than ideal, being able to hit a virtual button and reach everyone quickly would be handy. Around camp or off-road I do have handheld GMRS radios so anyone that wants to wander away from camp can still generally be reachable as long as they don't go too far.
 
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Dilldog

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With more infomation provided the intent of this post is MUCH more clear. I can definatly see the appeal and usefulness.
That said I am amazed that any critical services are using civilian communications infrastructure. Up here in the Inland NW there have been quite a few times in my life during extreme weather that the cell networks are overloaded and don't work (this is one major reason we have both county and city emergency radio groups). I know all of our government and such up here uses trunked and encripted digital radio as well as limited analogue just above the Ham 2meter band with PL tones on the send and receive.
 
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Dilldog

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...Does not look like Zello supports CarPlay - which is a no-brainer IMO. Unfortunately w/o CarPlay folks in WA cannot legally use the app (while driving) if it takes more than one touch to activate. Would rather not play in this gray area and risk getting pulled over...
This is definatly something to keep in mind. Also as the WA state law reads, even a single touch device can be considered distracted driving if you fail to maintain lane position or speed at ANY time. However there is a nifty little Ham opperator exemption in there. A licensed Ham cannot be cited for distracted driving while operating a radio. Naturally if you swerve into someones lane and cause issues you can still be ticketed for failure to yield etc. but you cannot be pulled over simply for distracted driving if you have the mic in your hand.
 
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M Rose

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With more infomation provided the intent of this post is MUCH more clear. I can definatly see the appeal and usefulness.
That said I am amazed that any critical services are using civilian communications infrastructure. Up here in the Inland NW there have been quite a few times in my life during extreme weather that the cell networks are overloaded and don't work (this is one major reason we have both county and city emergency radio groups). I know all of our government and such up here uses trunked and encripted digital radio as well as limited analogue just above the Ham 2meter band with PL tones on the send and receive.
We do the same and are looking to add an integrated mesh network with star-link. Hence I was asking if it would work over a mesh network.
 
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Dilldog

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We do the same and are looking to add an integrated mesh network with star-link. Hence I was asking if it would work over a mesh network.
Satelite comms are super cool. Spokane ARES has a system (Tough Sat) that is actually designed to patch outages in civilian comms (like LTE and general internet). Funny story the Sherif's department here has a drone set up for mapping accident sites and they deployed it to a wreck about 15 miles out of town. Well they didn't realize that the mapping system required LTE coverage so it didn't work (cell stuff is extremely spotty south of Spokane). This was one reason we got the funding for the satellite system. I have set it up twice and helped operate it once, its a cool piece of kit.
To Add: Star Link is cool, but I think you guys would be better served with something specifically designed for what you would be doing, like Tough Sat. Before my time they looked at Star Link and deemed Tough Sat to be a better option.
 

M Rose

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Satelite comms are super cool. Spokane ARES has a system (Tough Sat) that is actually designed to patch outages in civilian comms (like LTE and general internet). Funny story the Sherif's department here has a drone set up for mapping accident sites and they deployed it to a wreck about 15 miles out of town. Well they didn't realize that the mapping system required LTE coverage so it didn't work (cell stuff is extremely spotty south of Spokane). This was one reason we got the funding for the satellite system. I have set it up twice and helped operate it once, its a cool piece of kit.
To Add: Star Link is cool, but I think you guys would be better served with something specifically designed for what you would be doing, like Tough Sat. Before my time they looked at Star Link and deemed Tough Sat to be a better option.
I am not quite up on the Satellite internet stuff, but I know they were talking about a system that had Starlink and another system incorporated. To be honest when this was brought up at the last meeting ARES was the furthest thing from my mind, I was there mainly to be made know publicly that I wasn’t going to be at Field Day, but would be available for for an exercise happening the fallowing Monday-Wednesday…
 

Ubiety

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A licensed Ham cannot be cited for distracted driving while operating a radio.
Yeah, was pondering that last night. I can poke at my radio and its ok, but not a phone.

I set up a Zello channel for an upcoming adventure, it won't replace our radios but I think it will serve us well for our rendezvous in town. What is the plural form of rendezvous? Hahaha
 
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Dilldog

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...What is the plural form of rendezvous? Hahaha
I believe rendezvous is the same singular or plural. However I believe if you are going for a less formal meeting it could be "recontre" for singular or "reunions" for plural...
 
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Ubiety

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I believe rendezvous is the same singular or plural.
It is but I looked it up to be sure ;) Interesting how we pronounce it with the "s" at the end for plural or silent "s" for the singular. Had never really thought about it until yesterday ;)
 

TheBronze

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With more infomation provided the intent of this post is MUCH more clear. I can definatly see the appeal and usefulness.
That said I am amazed that any critical services are using civilian communications infrastructure. Up here in the Inland NW there have been quite a few times in my life during extreme weather that the cell networks are overloaded and don't work (this is one major reason we have both county and city emergency radio groups). I know all of our government and such up here uses trunked and encripted digital radio as well as limited analogue just above the Ham 2meter band with PL tones on the send and receive.
Almost all critical services use civilian communications. My agency used Verizon for our computers, LAPD uses T-Mobile, the list goes on. Twenty five years ago agencies used separate radio networks for their computers and it was hugely expensive and range limiting. For instance, when my agency made an arrest we had to transport our arrestee to our downtown jail for long term housing. During that drive we would actually go outside our radio systems coverage. We had to rely on a cell phone at that point. Once the computers came along, using 3G edge networks at that time, we could at least communicate with our station via the computer. Around 2015 we started experimenting with Zello for our detectives because their investigations frequently took them long distances away. The Zello app wasn't as reliable back then, but it worked better than nothing. Over the years it improved until it was really reliable.

There is a project right now to build out a separate LTE system for government use called First Net. AT&T got the contract for it but at this point it's really just running on the AT&T network. In some areas it works well and in others, not so much. The people that run First Net are actually in the process of trying to develop their own Mission Critical PTT app because they see that it the way forward in the future. AMR ambulance is a huge company that has contracts all across the United States. They use a different company called ESChat. ESChat is a PTT over LTE company just like Zello. The only real difference is Zello has a free version that private citizens can use. AMR ambulance found it was a huge pain an expense to build out an entire radio system every time they got a new contract, so they adopted ESChat and have been using it for several years now. They do still use land mobile radio in a few locations that don't have good coverage, but 90 percent of their operations are now on EXChat via LTE.

From the beginning of this post I wasn't trying to tell anyone that this app should replace any kind of radio for off road use. Obviously, if you live in a place with poor LTE coverage then you probably don't rely on a cellphone either. But in the vast majority of the United States their is now coverage. I keep seeing remarks about the coverage not being complete and I get it. If it doesn't work for you then don't use it. But for most of us we do have coverage when on the highways and around town, so why would we not avail ourselves of a free resource?

When I retired I started doing more hiking and backpacking. Being an old radio guy I looked for ways to incorporate communications into what I was doing. Pretty much all of my hiking partners have a GMRS radio and we use them on the trail because sometime, on a multi-day trip, we get stretched out for over a mile. I recently backpacked into the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Our younger people ended up being far out ahead of us older and slower guys, but we always had a radio between us in case someone got hurt. On the drive from California to the Grand Canyon we used Zello to coordinate and eventually meet up in a city about fifty miles from our destination. The combination of Zello for the road and the GMRS radios on the trail worked amazingly well.

All I'm saying is, check it out and see if it might work for you. If it doesn't, just delete the app and you will have lost nothing.
 

TheBronze

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You don't live in Colorado.
No I don't, but my best friend actually lived in Loveland and seeing your call sign you probably know him. His name is Eric and he was with CAP. We used to talk on Zello all the time, and still do now that he's moved back to California. Something I told him he shouldn't do, but he had his reasons.
 

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To paraphrase what Michael says in his videos, what you drive doesn't matter. Comms can be similar. Use whatever gets the job done, as long as it's legal/compliant. My comm toolbox includes cell phones, GMRS, amateur radio, inReach, Zello, and even a CB. Someday I might add one of those cell boosters.

I've used Zello to good effect when I have cell coverage but know not to count on it outside of cities or interstates. It does some things that GMRS and amateur radio don't do so it is a tool worth considering. In my experience it was handy and fun for talking to folks while traveling toward a meeting place, but too far apart for GMRS. Some of them weren't hams so the cool linked systems didn't matter. I'm on Mint Mobile so my cell coverage is probably near the bottom of the barrel, but I used Zello for much of the drive from Overland Expo - West back to the coast. It worked in some places I thought it would totally drop. Conversely, I've spent entire days traveling paved roads without any hint of cell coverage.

Personally, my strong preference is amateur radio and GMRS. I'm not stubborn about them though.

So, use the tool that works for you and the folks you are running with. Every run may be different. Most importantly, have fun and be chill!
 
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