SVO ....Small Vehicle Overlanding

[Wawa Skittletits]

The argument against sway bar disconnect working on 4WIS or IFS is that you don't have the lever effect that comes with a live axle - when one wheel is pushed up, the other is automatically pushed down, and with enough articulation, into contact with the ground. This levering effect is absent in an independent suspension, however I tend to think that while the usefulness of SBDC is less in an independent suspension, it's still better to have light contact with the earth than no contact with it. LSD probably adds to this effect as well.

In any case, the fact that engineers from Jeep and Hyundai both thought it was worth doing suggests to me that it helps at least a little. I haven't yet tried it myself, mostly because of laziness, but I may give it a shot sometime.

Sounds a lot like something a Jeeper, aka solid axle people, would say. I have countless pictures showing the benefits on a 4 wheel independent suspension vehicle. I would suspect that anyone claiming limited or no benefits hasn’t spent enough time working on suspension setups. The only reason I hang a wheel over most difficult terrain at this point is the front sway bar limiting wheel travel.

 

[CR-Venturer]

Next time I go wheeling, I might disconnect my sway bar links manually and see if I feel any difference. I feel like it would be quite a pain the butt to do it manually every time, but maybe if it works well, I might look into fabbing up some quick disconnects.

 

[Wawa Skittletits]

Next time I go wheeling, I might disconnect my sway bar links manually and see if I feel any difference. I feel like it would be quite a pain the butt to do it manually every time, but maybe if it works well, I might look into fabbing up some quick disconnects.

At the very least you should notice how much smoother of a ride it is.

You could start my removing the rear altogether. If it’s like a lot of vehicles it’s only a 15 minute job and if you’re on level ground you don’t even have to jack it up. If you don’t like it it’s an easy thing to go back to and it could save you only disconnecting the front if you like it.

As I said before the front does almost all the work in the sway department. We know this even with the rear bar connected because of how understeer prone modern vehicles are. It’s safer than oversteer for normal drivers but I digress haha.

On top of letting each wheel actually be independent and do its own thing you’ll also potentially gain a little droop. Sometimes the bar/endlinks actually limit downwards travel

 

[CR-Venturer]

At the very least you should notice how much smoother of a ride it is.

You could start my removing the rear altogether. If it’s like a lot of vehicles it’s only a 15 minute job and if you’re on level ground you don’t even have to jack it up. If you don’t like it it’s an easy thing to go back to and it could save you only disconnecting the front if you like it.

As I said before the front does almost all the work in the sway department. We know this even with the rear bar connected because of how understeer prone modern vehicles are. It’s safer than oversteer for normal drivers but I digress haha.

On top of letting each wheel actually be independent and do its own thing you’ll also potentially gain a little droop. Sometimes the bar/endlinks actually limit downwards travel

Yeah, my front links are very, very short, and I feel like they must limit the droop. I would save a little bit of weight with a rear sway delete too. My only worry is that my rig is my daily commuter and does a ton of freeway kms, so I wouldn't want to do anything that makes that more hazardous.

 

[Wawa Skittletits]

Yeah, my front links are very, very short, and I feel like they must limit the droop. I would save a little bit of weight with a rear sway delete too. My only worry is that my rig is my daily commuter and does a ton of freeway kms, so I wouldn't want to do anything that makes that more hazardous.

That’s why I mentioned how little the rear actually does. I’ve been running for almost 2 years without a rear sway bar and I throw it into corners like I would any of the corner carving, cone killing vehicles I’ve owned.

It’s also why I mentioned how simple of a task it is most of the time.

 

[CR-Venturer]

That’s why I mentioned how little the rear actually does. I’ve been running for almost 2 years without a rear sway bar and I throw it into corners like I would any of the corner carving, cone killing vehicles I’ve owned.

It’s also why I mentioned how simple of a task it is most of the time.

Mine is super easy. Everything is easily accessible in the rear. I'll probably just do it - save some weight in the back.

 

[Dilldog]

Yeah, my front links are very, very short, and I feel like they must limit the droop. I would save a little bit of weight with a rear sway delete too. My only worry is that my rig is my daily commuter and does a ton of freeway kms, so I wouldn't want to do anything that makes that more hazardous.

This also would be my worry. I did run my TJ Jeep with no sway bars, ever and even with the hard top on it wasnt too terrible. I actually thought it was cool because it would slightly unload the left front any time you got into the throttle.
The story that sticks in my mind is of the old M5A1 (?) Jeeps. They were a prototype 4 wheel independant rig built by Ford if I remember right. Anyway they didnt have any sway bars and they found that at speed on uneven terrain they could get the suspension osculating and loose control. Granted there are a lot of other variables there (weight, spring rate, shock bound and rebound), but when I first thought of pulling my sway bars this popped into my mind.

 

[Plasmajab]

Had a "whats down here" Moment.

So we went down there.

Pretty thick ice already. About 2 inches thick. Kept on going down there.

And found a thing.

This wetland is a monster. At least 1km across, and about 2-3 km long at least. We wanted to continue, but the ice over the puddles seemed thin. We poked through with a pick and found it was less then an inch, and a good foot of water underneath.

So we bookmarked it and will check later when weather changes. So we went to get some snek and lizard food.

 

[CR-Venturer]

Had a "whats down here" Moment.

So we went down there.

Pretty thick ice already. About 2 inches thick. Kept on going down there.

And found a thing.

This wetland is a monster. At least 1km across, and about 2-3 km long at least. We wanted to continue, but the ice over the puddles seemed thin. We poked through with a pick and found it was less then an inch, and a good foot of water underneath.

So we bookmarked it and will check later when weather changes. So we went to get some snek and lizard food.

Looks like a bird watcher's paradise.

 

[Plasmajab]

Looks like a bird watcher's paradise.

It really could be. I know in this area the osprey population has just come back. So for us we have to be mindful of where we explore. We really don't want to bother them.

Although im sure they don't care. Im also sure this time of year they are somewhere down south sipping tequila or something.

 

[Smileyshaun]

i took the rear sway bar off my forester the first month I had it and yes you do feel a slight difference on the street but it's very minor and worth it for the smoother ride off the beaten path . Now every vehicle is different , a coil sprung jeep is going to be down right scary without sway bars , a leaf sprung rig with aftermarket springs would hardly notice them being gone on the road . It's one of those things you have to just try and see how your vehicle reacts.

 

[OuterLimits]

@fugitive Have you tried disconnecting or pulling the sway bars on your Escape and noted any improvement in performance? Im thinking about doing this and seeing if it works any better, also my sway bar end links are shot and Im a lazy cheap ass, lol.
Im sure some might say simply pulling them is dangerous, and Im sure it could be. I drove a TJ around for years with zero sway bars and never had any issues. But im a super mellow driver (i credit Frank Sinatra and NPR for keeping my on road attitude level with that of a 70 year old history professor). So if there is a decent increase in suspension performance I may just pull em. But if you dont get much Ill keep em around.

Dillon, Disconnecting sway bars is not really on my "to do" list. For my 99% DD duties, I like it how it is. For the 1% off road, not sure if it is worth the effort. If there was a simple way to connect/disconnect at the trail head I might change my mind.

As is, the only time I have been stuck and needed extraction, SBD would not have helped. I was high centered on a bunch of ice blocks, coming out of a water/ice hole with a a step. Front wheels were over a foot off the ground. The rear wheels were under water, but were likely 6" or more from contact. A tug was the proper solution.

If you pull your sways, post back on your results. Cheers.

 

[Plasmajab]

Jeez. I can't even reach mine. But at this point I don't really need to disconnect them for the trails I run. Now with taller tires and a lift, I'd probably have to lengthen them.

 

[Wawa Skittletits]

Jeez. I can't even reach mine. But at this point I don't really need to disconnect them for the trails I run. Now with taller tires and a lift, I'd probably have to lengthen them.

Take a close look at how yours is set up. I’ve only ever run longer endlinks on lowered vehicles so on a lifted vehicle like my Outback it’s actually shorter.

 

[Plasmajab]

You're totally right actually. Mine connect to the strut and the sway bar. So if I used spacers I would actually need shorter sway bar and links because the strut would be lower.

 

[Wawa Skittletits]

You're totally right actually. Mine connect to the strut and the sway bar. So if I used spacers I would actually need shorter sway bar and links because the strut would be lower.

Don’t sound surprised haha. I’ve been tweaking suspension setups on mainly track oriented vehicles for 20 years. I’ve been right about everything I’ve said haha.

 

[Plasmajab]

Probably the part that scares me the most about my escape is that there doesn't seem to be any factory tow hooks.

Being a 2wd, I sort of expect that but even the 4x4 models don't have them.

Ford lists a tow eye for recovery.. but I can't seem to see where the heck it goes on the 17 models.

Any other escape artists have a hint? I for one won't go down any tougher of a trailer without them.

 

[Wawa Skittletits]

Probably the part that scares me the most about my escape is that there doesn't seem to be any factory tow hooks.

Being a 2wd, I sort of expect that but even the 4x4 models don't have them.

Ford lists a tow eye for recovery.. but I can't seem to see where the heck it goes on the 17 models.

Any other escape artists have a hint? I for one won't go down any tougher of a trailer without them.

Apparently Ford did away with it in 2017 which is really messed up.

 

[CR-Venturer]

Probably the part that scares me the most about my escape is that there doesn't seem to be any factory tow hooks.

Being a 2wd, I sort of expect that but even the 4x4 models don't have them.

Ford lists a tow eye for recovery.. but I can't seem to see where the heck it goes on the 17 models.

Any other escape artists have a hint? I for one won't go down any tougher of a trailer without them.

My vehicle didn't have any proper recovery points in the rear, so I added two 10,000lb recovery points bolted into the unibody "frame rail."

Another alternative is to mount a hitch receiver and use one of those hitch mounted shackles. I would have gone with that, but money was tight, so I went with the low cost alternative.

 

[OuterLimits]

Probably the part that scares me the most about my escape is that there doesn't seem to be any factory tow hooks.

Being a 2wd, I sort of expect that but even the 4x4 models don't have them.

Ford lists a tow eye for recovery.. but I can't seem to see where the heck it goes on the 17 models.

Any other escape artists have a hint? I for one won't go down any tougher of a trailer without them.

It seems that removal of tow points is getting too common on newer vehicles.

On my '05 Escape I use a hitch mounted shackle on the rear.

The front has two points that are not robust enough to be considered fully rated points, but are far better than the flimsy tie downs on many cars. I rig up a bridle to share the load between the two points. I run a 12 foot tow strap through the eye of the recovery strap (running to the recovery vehicle). I then attach each eye of the 12 ft tow strap to the 2 recovery points using small shackles. This shares the load between the two points and is more tolerant of off center pulls.

This worked fine to recover the Escape from the dreaded ice hole without damage. For basic recovery needs it seems fine. I don't play in deep mud and would not use the front recovery points to attempt a deep mud extraction.

Too bad Ford left recovery points off the new Escapes. Some newer cars use an optional threaded eye bolt in the front bumper as a tow point (flat pull). There is usually a little plastic cover over the hole. You will see these on a lot of track cars. I don't know how appropriate this would be for recovery. Any recovery attempted would likely need to be a straight pull (no lateral forces).

Good luck.