Suspension options

[Red_Leaf_Overland]

Ok, so I have a whole whack of parts and all kinds of ideas for trailer builds but can't decide on what would be best for a trailer that will likely be taken both on and off road ....

I have a 2000 lb straight axle, a set of 2000lb leafs as well as 3500 lb leafs, and 2000 lb torsion axles ... all sitting around in my garage lol.
I also have 2 sets of 2000 lb coil springs for some reason so I was toying with the idea of getting some 3500 weld spindle/hub kits and making an independent suspension setup

I know that 2000 lb axle components may be a little light for anything going off road but I've borrowed a friend's trailer in the past that was a 4×6 trailer with a jeep roll cage bolted in and a RTT on top. It was build pretty light and never had any issues.

I am hoping to use a 32-33" tires ( one tow vehicle has 37" tires and the other has 29" tires lol) any suggestions, tips, would be greatly appreciated.

 

[m_lars]

Personally I don’t think independent suspension is worth the effort. It doesn’t really give you added clearance, except a small gap in the middle. Either way it’s probably more than your rig. A solid axle and leaf springs are simple, more easily interchangeable and stronger.

 

[Red_Leaf_Overland]

Personally I don’t think independent suspension is worth the effort. It doesn’t really give you added clearance, except a small gap in the middle. Either way it’s probably more than your rig. A solid axle and leaf springs are simple, more easily interchangeable and stronger.

More clearance than one vehicle and less than another lol. I know that a leaf suspension and straight axle will be easier to build. They do bounce around alot though, although I've never driven a with a trailer on coils do I don't now if it's better or not. Kinda spitballing ideas at the moment. I could even build a coil sprung straight axle trailer lol.
Pictures of the 2 rigs that may tow the trailer below....

 

[m_lars]

Personally I don’t think independent suspension is worth the effort. It doesn’t really give you added clearance, except a small gap in the middle. Either way it’s probably more than your rig. A solid axle and leaf springs are simple, more easily interchangeable and stronger.

More clearance than one vehicle and less than another lol. I know that a leaf suspension and straight axle will be easier to build. They do bounce around alot though, although I've never driven a with a trailer on coils do I don't now if it's better or not. Kinda spitballing ideas at the moment. I could even build a coil sprung straight axle trailer lol.
Pictures of the 2 rigs that may tow the trailer below....

You’ll have more clearance than even the Jeep (blasphemy, I know), unless you run 12” wheels. No pumpkin hanging down, no low hanging shock mounts, etc. Get your spring rate right and they don’t really bounce that much, at least mine doesn’t.

 

[Red_Leaf_Overland]

You’ll have more clearance than even the Jeep (blasphemy, I know), unless you run 12” wheels. No pumpkin hanging down, no low hanging shock mounts, etc. Get your spring rate right and they don’t really bounce that much, at least mine doesn’t.

Fair enough. I still have to do some math to find roughly how heavy it will be as a base, and then figure what I want to put on it and how much all that will weigh in at. I am hoping to keep it at light as possible...

 

[m_lars]

Tire selection and especially the pressure you run them at will be huge as well. Most people tend to run trailer tires at the max pressure. I’ve got wheels that match my Rover and run them with just enough psi to have a little bit of sidewall bulge. I use the very scientific method of “that looks about right” and it hasn’t failed me yet!

 

[bgenlvtex]

Independent suspension is absolutely worth the effort, as is (maybe more so) a proper articulated hitch.

I wouldn't build an "overlanding" trailer without either one. Mine has Cruisemaster CRS2 and McHitch, super happy with both.

 

[Red_Leaf_Overland]

Independent suspension is absolutely worth the effort, as is (maybe more so) a proper articulated hitch.

I wouldn't build an "overlanding" trailer without either one. Mine has Cruisemaster CRS2 and McHitch, super happy with both.

I was looking at the cruise master suspensions for inspiration lol

 

[m_lars]

Independent suspension is absolutely worth the effort, as is (maybe more so) a proper articulated hitch.

I wouldn't build an "overlanding" trailer without either one. Mine has Cruisemaster CRS2 and McHitch, super happy with both.

You’ll have to explain the upside of the independent suspension, I just don’t see much, if any. At a given weight rating a solid axle will be stronger. The last trailer I looked at was nearly new and one side of the independent suspension was already bent. Independent suspension isn’t going to articulate any more than a solid axle because there isn’t any counter force working against the springs. The trailer will sit at the same angle on a side hill or obstacle wether it’s solid axle or independent.

Articulating hitches are certainly cool, but they’re the rotopax of the hitch systems. Very ingenious, overly expensive and largely unnecessary. They all seem so overly complicated and there are so many areas I’d rather spend that money. I’ve been running a standard hitch until the need arises for something “better” and after some pretty rough trails, it hasn’t.

I’m glad you like them, they’re obviously high priority for you, but how many adventures would you have missed out on without them?

 

[bgenlvtex]

You’ll have to explain the upside of the independent suspension, I just don’t see much, if any. At a given weight rating a solid axle will be stronger. The last trailer I looked at was nearly new and one side of the independent suspension was already bent. Independent suspension isn’t going to articulate any more than a solid axle because there isn’t any counter force working against the springs. The trailer will sit at the same angle on a side hill or obstacle wether it’s solid axle or independent.

Articulating hitches are certainly cool, but they’re the rotopax of the hitch systems. Very ingenious, overly expensive and largely unnecessary. They all seem so overly complicated and there are so many areas I’d rather spend that money. I’ve been running a standard hitch until the need arises for something “better” and after some pretty rough trails, it hasn’t.

I’m glad you like them, they’re obviously high priority for you, but how many adventures would you have missed out on without them?

I don't think you have ever used or understand independent suspension or an articulated hitch on a trailer. The entire purpose of both is to allow the trailer to function without affecting traction in the tow vehicle and it works very well. The improvement in ride quality is a bonus as well as not beating the shit out of the rest of the trailer. Batteries, electronics, plumbing, heater, A/C all benefit from the improved ride quality and it also allows the trailer to be built lighter.

Everything the trailer does on rough terrain and particularly off camber affects the rear of the truck, adding or more importantly reducing weight and consequently traction. My truck is built for articulation for exactly that reason, to keep the tires on the ground and delivering power to the ground surface. Coupling of the articulated hitches I'm familiar with is also tighter and far more positive than a ball hitch. You don't hear it creaking and squeaking , popping and banging like a ball hitch or pintle.

I have pulled many, many leaf spring or torsion axle, ball mount hitch trailers, they aren't even in the same ball game. When I see an "off road trailer" manufacturer promoting a product with leaf springs I automatically discount it as not a serious product, much the same way I do a 4x4 without lockers.

How many "adventures" would I have missed? No telling, but based on previous experience I absolutely would not have taken my trailer many of the places I have. The lowest point on the back of my trailer is 25", I've drug that coming down embankments. 100% guaranteed that would have bound a ball hitch and picked up the back wheels.
Yes, they are a high priority for me, in fact they are non-negotiable, leaf springs are not even a consideration for a trailer I am going to use off of improved surfaces.

All of that said, if leaf springs and a ball hitch work for you, have at it, it's not a contest and there are no rules.

 

[m_lars]

You’ll have to explain the upside of the independent suspension, I just don’t see much, if any. At a given weight rating a solid axle will be stronger. The last trailer I looked at was nearly new and one side of the independent suspension was already bent. Independent suspension isn’t going to articulate any more than a solid axle because there isn’t any counter force working against the springs. The trailer will sit at the same angle on a side hill or obstacle wether it’s solid axle or independent.

Articulating hitches are certainly cool, but they’re the rotopax of the hitch systems. Very ingenious, overly expensive and largely unnecessary. They all seem so overly complicated and there are so many areas I’d rather spend that money. I’ve been running a standard hitch until the need arises for something “better” and after some pretty rough trails, it hasn’t.

I’m glad you like them, they’re obviously high priority for you, but how many adventures would you have missed out on without them?

I don't think you have ever used or understand independent suspension or an articulated hitch on a trailer. The entire purpose of both is to allow the trailer to function without affecting traction in the tow vehicle and it works very well. The improvement in ride quality is a bonus as well as not beating the shit out of the rest of the trailer. Batteries, electronics, plumbing, heater, A/C all benefit from the improved ride quality and it also allows the trailer to be built lighter.

Everything the trailer does on rough terrain and particularly off camber affects the rear of the truck, adding or more importantly reducing weight and consequently traction. My truck is built for articulation for exactly that reason, to keep the tires on the ground and delivering power to the ground surface. Coupling of the articulated hitches I'm familiar with is also tighter and far more positive than a ball hitch. You don't hear it creaking and squeaking , popping and banging like a ball hitch or pintle.

I have pulled many, many leaf spring or torsion axle, ball mount hitch trailers, they aren't even in the same ball game. When I see an "off road trailer" manufacturer promoting a product with leaf springs I automatically discount it as not a serious product, much the same way I do a 4x4 without lockers.

How many "adventures" would I have missed? No telling, but based on previous experience I absolutely would not have taken my trailer many of the places I have. The lowest point on the back of my trailer is 25", I've drug that coming down embankments. 100% guaranteed that would have bound a ball hitch and picked up the back wheels.
Yes, they are a high priority for me, in fact they are non-negotiable, leaf springs are not even a consideration for a trailer I am going to use off of improved surfaces.

All of that said, if leaf springs and a ball hitch work for you, have at it, it's not a contest and there are no rules.

Got it. Gear is more important than the trip.

 

[Red_Leaf_Overland]

Ok so question for both of you. Will a 2000 lb axle ( either welding in stub, torsion, or straight axle) hold up to off road use with "larger" tires? My big concern with all of the parts I have laying around is that they may be too light. Obviously I will still need to look at how I am putting my suspension together lol.

 

[bgenlvtex]

Got it. Gear is more important than the trip.

Not at all.
Gear in these cases increases safety, comfort, and mobility which are all pertinent and important to the "trip".

 

[PCO6]

@Red_Leaf_Overland - Are you looking to build a trailer that is similar to what your friend has? I have a 4'x6' trailer and it has plenty of room for my needs. It has a 3,500 lb. straight axle and 2,000 lb. springs and it's been good in the places I have gone with it. It would probably be fine if it had a 2,000 lb. axle. What it doesn't have is brakes. I might change out the current axle for another 3,500 lb. axle I have that has the flanges needed for brakes, which I have sitting on a shelf.

I built mine with a plan to use the vehicle spare if needed. Your situation is quite different. I tow with my Jeep XJ and LJ with similar size wheels and tires. If you plan to use Jeep wheels, you'll likely need 2" wheel spacers for the 3,500 lb. axle but not for the 2,000 lb. axle. The larger hub diameter of the heavier axle won't fit through the wheel centre of most Jeep wheels.

 

[bgenlvtex]

Ok so question for both of you. Will a 2000 lb axle ( either welding in stub, torsion, or straight axle) hold up to off road use with "larger" tires? My big concern with all of the parts I have laying around is that they may be too light. Obviously I will still need to look at how I am putting my suspension together lol.

There are way too many variables to even offer an educated opinion (not an engineer), but suspension is worthy of overbuilding if any part is.

 

[m_lars]

Ok so question for both of you. Will a 2000 lb axle ( either welding in stub, torsion, or straight axle) hold up to off road use with "larger" tires? My big concern with all of the parts I have laying around is that they may be too light. Obviously I will still need to look at how I am putting my suspension together lol.

I don’t think, in a DIY situation, you can make the independent suspension hold up or perform as well. Will 2k hold up? Depends on how big and how heavy.

Look at those mega dollar trailers and the size of the swing arms they’ve got. They’ve got more material and weight in those systems than a straight axle, and for what? Straight axle will get you down the road with less weight and complexity.

If you’re paying $50k for a tent trailer (patriot comes to mind), you better get something other than a straight axle. But do you NEED a patriot camper to go out and have a great trip? Nope.

 

[MOAK]

Ok so question for both of you. Will a 2000 lb axle ( either welding in stub, torsion, or straight axle) hold up to off road use with "larger" tires? My big concern with all of the parts I have laying around is that they may be too light. Obviously I will still need to look at how I am putting my suspension together lol.

I’m in on this now. The learning curve on my trailer was long & drawn out. The 2,000 lb axle will fail, period. How do I know? ( Long story) I run a 3500lb axle. I had 3500 lb springs, one of them snapped in half. Now I have 5,000 lb springs and heavy duty shackles. My trailer scales out at 1,500lbs, loaded. Build your suspension for at least twice the weight that you think you need. I use a 5 ton pintle hook. If they are set up correctly and have proper tongue weight ( roughly 10% of the trailer weight) they do not rattle, they do not bind, and they will never need any maintenance. I have a solid axle for the same reason I run a popular tire size. If it ever fails, Dexter axles can be had at any tractor supply or trailer shop nationwide. My 4x6 trailer follows perfectly, does not bounce around, as I run with about 20 lbs of tire pressure, and now that I’ve installed brakes, no longer pushes me down steep inclines. The deck is 24” off the ground and the trailer has a lot better clearance and departure angles than our built Landcruiser. Just remember, build the suspension, no matter what you choose, to be stronger than twice what you think you need.

 

[m_lars]

Got it. Gear is more important than the trip.

Not at all.
Gear in these cases increases safety, comfort, and mobility which are all pertinent and important to the "trip".

No, if independent suspension and an articulating hitch are “non-negotiable” it clearly is. I’m no less safe, comfortable or mobile than you, that’s foolish.

I do agree that if you are spending tens of thousands of dollars on a commercially built trailer you should get those things. However, if they are not PROPERLY done, you will be worse off. I’ve seen it first hand.

 

[bgenlvtex]

No, if independent suspension and an articulating hitch are “non-negotiable” it clearly is. I’m no less safe, comfortable or mobile than you, that’s foolish.

I do agree that if you are spending tens of thousands of dollars on a commercially built trailer you should get those things. However, if they are not PROPERLY done, you will be worse off. I’ve seen it first hand.

You seem to want to just argue,so I'll just let you argue with yourself.

Have a nice day.

 

[grubworm]

Got it. Gear is more important than the trip.

awh...its ok. youre important too!
the members on here are just giving their opioion on things and its not a personal attack on you