Stirrin' the pot

[RockyMountaineer]

So you are buying a pto overdrive for your 1948 Willyz? Or some fold up chairs designed by a fella in Poughkeepsie NY and now being knocked off by a manufacturing plant in Shenyang? Seriously? You are acting as if it is a difficult task to discern one from the other?

No I am acting like a capitalist. Sometimes the name brand is worth the money and offers the value I am looking for sometimes they don't. Some days the cheapest is what I need other times quality is what I need.

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[Anders0nic]

I think you need to head on over to Miriam Webster's Dictionary and look up what a capitalist is...

 

[RockyMountaineer]

I think you need to head on over to Miriam Webster's Dictionary and look up what a capitalist is...

So now we are to the name calling stage. I think you need to take an economics course. But that is nether here nor there and this dialog is not productive. I'm out.

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[Anders0nic]

I have never called you a name here. I am merely suggesting you look up the meaning of capitalist. The context you are using it in implies that you actually mean consumer.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism
There is more available online if you should choose to search it out. I did take a few courses on economics, back in the nineties. I may have forgotten a few things since then...

Definition of capitalist

1. 1: a person who has capital especially invested in business industrial capitalists; broadly : a person of wealth : plutocrat Charitable organizations often seek help from capitalists.
   
   
2. 2: a person who favors capitalism
   
   Definition of consumer
   1. : one that consumes: such asa : one that utilizes economic goods Many consumers make purchases on the Internet.b : an organism requiring complex organic compounds for food which it obtains by preying on other organisms or by eating particles of organic matter — compare producer

 

[Caddis]

I tend to have what some may call an addictive personality. If im looking at purchasing that is as at a higher dollar amount, I may take about 3 months to do my research. Sometimes I find out it's more of an impulse buy, than a need. Or, I find that through my research, that item is as useful as a cheaper version.

 

[The other Sean]

Same boat as most. It's an educated decision. But, I do tend to find the deal isn't always in the initial cost. Also, it seems the more moving parts an item has, the better the chance the name brand one will be better.

One thing to add is with brand name items, you have the company to call when there is an issue and many times they are more than happy to rectify the situation. I don't know how many times I have heard someone say "yea, this part broke, so I called ____ and they sent me the part in the mail."

An off brand / off shore item? it goes in the garbage.

 

[Anak]

Some things you get what you pay for, some things you don't. Try and learn. When I was a younger guy, I couldn't afford some of the better stuff. So I started doing ebay, CL and REI garage sale. I have no problems with second-hand goods. Especially when you find a great deal on something someone else took the MSRP hit on in excellent condition and half price.

^^^^THIS!

There is no substitute for a good ratchet. There is a reason the good ones are so expensive.

On the other hand, as has been said, $60 for a cup is outright silliness. I have no problem with the $10 version, and I don't think anybody lost their R&D shirt when I bought one. That $60 price tag has everything to do with brand exclusivity so that snobs can hold their noses just that much higher than the rest of us. Bless their hearts. I will just have to be content with what remains in my wallet.

I think the challenge is learning to distinguish which items deserve the price tag and which items leave room for compromise. In my world view there are tools and there are "tool shaped objects". That discount bin of hammers, screwdrivers, wrenches, etc, all marked "Made in China" with some brand no one has ever seen before, those are the "tool shaped objects". Don't ever buy those things. Each of those objects is a lesson waiting to happen. A lesson about what doesn't work.

Sadly, even Craftsman tools have devolved into tool shaped objects over the years. Thirty years ago I bought a set of Craftsman screwdrivers. They were good quality. Their replacements are junk. The lesson there is that brand is not even a safe indicator. You have to be attentive to what is going on in the world and reevaluate things over time.

I like buying used. Among other reasons, time separates the quality products from the junk products. A reputation is developed and a more informed choice can be made, and that with information from those who use the products rather than the marketing speak (another word for "fraud", thank you Scott Adams) from those who just want to separate people from their money. (And yes, marketing is why the $60 cup has that price tag. And yes, I have no qualms about defrauding the fraudsters.)

Of course, buying used takes more effort. I can't just log into Amazon and have it delivered in two days. It often means a compromise in color, or features, or condition of the finish. And sometimes there are products that never seem to show up on the used market in any kind of decent condition, and then I have to break down and buy new. But at that point I will know why it is that I am buying new, and it most certainly will not be an impulse buy.

And by no means do I begrudge those who have more money than time and who buy all their gear new. Among other reasons, those are the folks from whom I have the best chance of buying my used gear. If it were not for those folks my life would be harder.

It all works out.

 

[Anders0nic]

As a former REI employee(college job), I can attest to the merits of the used gear sale goods. Most of my gear came from there when I was starting out.


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[rzims]

I tend to be "frugal" my kids would say "tight" but I also believe in investing in good equipment where it matters.
Tools, I'm usually willing to pay for quality, but also like to look for used stuff at garage sales.
Gear, it's a mixed bag. I won't skimp on boots, or rain gear or anything that has safety attached to it. (rope, shackles, tow straps, and the like) Low impact items, I buy at harbor freight or costco....tarps, bins, etc...

 

[Rubiconcruiser]

Guys. As you well know there e hundreds of items out on the market to grab your attention, from Sno Peak on top to Sears in the middle. Remember the China stuff is literally that. Made in China. Ok. Now. Most tents are Chinese. Made in different factories some better than others one can literally walk down factory row and count where this stuff comes from. It matters to you if it lasts 2 or 10 years. Maybe, Yes the more expensive stuff will last longer maybe no. I'm on my 3 Rd series RTT and everyone has been a jewel to own I started with an Autohome, frontrunner, now ARB. Been happy with all used the crap out of them. Stoves same way. Coleman was the base now I've gone to Partner Steel. I'm done it gets no better. It's a matter of how much you want to spend on how many times you replace it in a 10 year period.
Coolers, most expensive best for obvious reasons. Look at the compressor. Where is it made ARB. Hands down. Mine runs 24/7 365. 6 years my investment in overlanding equipment has meant no replacement. $$$ saved. Use research to justify purchase, not just because I saw it on the forum now I gotta have one.


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[OffroadTreks]

You know what I hate is paying premium money for a product that turns out to not be a premium product. Especially when that product was American made. Oh man, that really gets my gears going.

 

[Scott]

I am one who believes in a mix of good deals and expensive name brands. My theory is this.. Overlanding/Camping is a hobby, but I believe it's also a lifestyle for myself and my family. I have a lot of name brand items, mostly because I got screaming deals on them. I have an ARB fridge, that I happened to get for almost FREE, because a friend was upgrading to a bigger one. When I was researching RTT's, I got my Mt. Denali standard while CVT was running a sale, and saved about $400 on it. Then I decided to upgrade to the Mt. Denali extended, and got a screaming deal on that. My camp chairs are $5 walmart specials that I've had for over 10 years, and I won't buy new ones until these die. At first glance, most of the gear I have is name brand and it looks as though I spent a small fortune to "keep up with the Jones' " but if you start talking to me, you will realize that most of the gear on my truck I got for either a screaming deal, or free. The point of Ozark Trail tumblers VS. Yeti tumblers came up earlier in this thread, and honestly, I could NEVER see paying the outrageous prices for Yeti products when the Ozark trail has been proven to perform just as well.

 

[Anders0nic]

You know what I hate is paying premium money for a product that turns out to not be a premium product. Especially when that product was American made. Oh man, that really gets my gears going.

I can agree. This is why I spend so much time doing research, watching/reading product reviews by non sponsored individuals.

The camping segment of the outdoor market has grown by leaps and bounds. Not all vendors/manufacturers actually put out a well designed/engineered/manufactured product. There are many companies out there that churn our subpar ideas just purely based upon taking a small percentage of the market share. I can think of a few companies I just don't buy equipment from. They have never produced a quality product(in my experience and opinion, of course) and they don't project to be a companies that will ever aspire to that. That's fine, I just don't give them my hard earned money.

This has been an eye opening discussion for me. My life experiences differ from most others and I am happy to learn from what others have done and experienced.

Stir the pot was a great thread title.


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[Rubiconcruiser]

I can agree. This is why I spend so much time doing research, watching/reading product reviews by non sponsored individuals.

The camping segment of the outdoor market has grown by leaps and bounds. Not all vendors/manufacturers actually put out a well designed/engineered/manufactured product. There are many companies out there that churn our subpar ideas just purely based upon taking a small percentage of the market share. I can think of a few companies I just don't buy equipment from. They have never produced a quality product(in my experience and opinion, of course) and they don't project to be a companies that will ever aspire to that. That's fine, I just don't give them my hard earned money.

This has been an eye opening discussion for me. My life experiences differ from most others and I am happy to learn from what others have done and experienced.

Stir the pot was a great thread title.


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Showing great techniques guys, twice bought, no thought, the upgrade is your choice, thanks


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[SeguineJ]

Stir the pot was a great thread title.

I figured it would be, I always looked at this a few different ways. There are items that are worth the money and others are work the "knock offs" the provide the same results. Again, I think the cup discussion hits that perfectly. As to the other thought process of the people, I come from Small town Kansas. Where I had the number to whomever owned the store and could get them to open it if something was really needed that day and it was closed. So I value the small towns and the small business. I do not value brand names in the same sense. Yea its great that major brands can build job growth but thats it, job growth in their own corporation. I want the little guy, the little mom and pop living a dream. When I travel if I stop to eat, I only stop at small time mom and pop food joints.

Its all about what youre looking for in the product, I look for it to work the way I want it too for as long as I felt the price was worth. Just like a computer, typically every 100$ is a year. Maybe a bit longer now a days with technology continuing to advance.

 

[Anders0nic]

I figured it would be, I always looked at this a few different ways. There are items that are worth the money and others are work the "knock offs" the provide the same results. Again, I think the cup discussion hits that perfectly. As to the other thought process of the people, I come from Small town Kansas. Where I had the number to whomever owned the store and could get them to open it if something was really needed that day and it was closed. So I value the small towns and the small business. I do not value brand names in the same sense. Yea its great that major brands can build job growth but thats it, job growth in their own corporation. I want the little guy, the little mom and pop living a dream. When I travel if I stop to eat, I only stop at small time mom and pop food joints.

Its all about what youre looking for in the product, I look for it to work the way I want it too for as long as I felt the price was worth. Just like a computer, typically every 100$ is a year. Maybe a bit longer now a days with technology continuing to advance.

I still believe the intellectual property/patent issue is far overlooked here. I'll pay for the company that invested its time and intellectual/physical energy into something. Allowing knockoffs into the market and then buying it because of price point is that slippery slope issue. A race to the bottom... Think of all of those hard working manufacturing employees that have lost their livelihood to a plant in Asia that abuses their workforce in the name of greed.


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[SeguineJ]

I still believe the intellectual property/patent issue is far overlooked here. I'll pay for the company that invested its time and intellectual/physical energy into something. Allowing knockoffs into the market and then buying it because of price point is that slippery slope issue. A race to the bottom... Think of all of those hard working manufacturing employees that have lost their livelihood to a plant in Asia that abuses their workforce in the name of greed.
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But my one sale, is not contributing to someone losing their job. Yea maybe in a large mass but again, that is still not a me issue. I buy "American" frequently but the fact of the matter is a lot of factories in our country are simply assembly, the companies themselves are importing the parts to here anyway. I think it also matters on product, let's be real, does is really cost a company 60$ to make a cup they frequently discount to 20$ or 30$?

 

[Jeepney]

Bought a jeep. Made in America, quality baby!Knock offs were made in uk and japan, why you guys buying them!

Obviously i'm just joking here ;)


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[jeffs blackjeep]

i find if i need something for mechanical reasons or just something aesthetic to enhance my jeeping exprience...i don't care what label is on it. i will for sure do my homework and read reviews and get as much information on other off-roading communities to make sure its the right choice...pricing helps too.

 

[Saints&Sailors]

You know what I hate is paying premium money for a product that turns out to not be a premium product. Especially when that product was American made. Oh man, that really gets my gears going.

This. +1.

This is why I have a bias against high-priced premium products. I've been burned before by it. Getting burned on a $5 Chinese part sucks. Getting burned on a product you paid hundred of dollars for hurts far worse.

Often it comes down to the value proposition - combining quality and price. I don't care where the product is made. If the USA made product is more expensive, then the quality needs to be that much better - that's how competition works. If the "better" part costs $50 and the cheap part costs $5, I'll probably get the $5 one because I can replace it 10x before it makes sense to buy the more expensive part (unless it is exceedingly difficult to replace). If the premium part is only a few dollars more - then it may be worth it. That being said, if I can't discern a difference between them, they are likely made in the same factory overseas and you're just paying a premium for marketing. There are so many companies out there now that don't actually do anything - their manufacturing is outsourced and the product gets built in the same factory anyway regardless of which brand you purchase (this happens on high end and low end products, don't delude yourself otherwise).