Snorkels?

[MidOH]

Don't bother on a Ram. Serious loss of power, and last I checked, your air box isn't very venerable to water or dust. The pulling colder air from up high is pure nonsense. The longer the intake, the less power. There is no way in heck that slightly cooler air, makes up for an intake that's FEET longer.

It's overlander bling bling. Like maxtracs bolted onto a midwest to northeast US ride.

 

[Boostpowered]

Don't bother on a Ram. Serious loss of power, and last I checked, your air box isn't very venerable to water or dust. The pulling colder air from up high is pure nonsense. The longer the intake, the less power. There is no way in heck that slightly cooler air, makes up for an intake that's FEET longer.

It's overlander bling bling. Like maxtracs bolted onto a midwest to northeast US ride.

Using thermodynamics how warm do you think the restrictions, bends and length make the ambient air? I'd guess 3° to 4°, Ambient air is usually 40°f colder than the road temps.
For a gasoline engine you may be right about lower power but a turbocharged intercooled diesel loves having a snorkel my hp number went up after the computer learned what was going on, i can't tell the hp number for me with just the snorkel because soon after I installed mine I also did a mild tune. I went from 180hp stock to 215hp on the dyno at the last 4wp show.
I get just like religion or politics there are folks out there who are set in their ways and snorkels are no different. You either love them if you have them or hate them because you don't understand them or are jealous you don't have one. Thats fine its your right to hate stuff.

 

[LONO100]

This is an interesting thread and I would love to find some real world scientific studies to the theories on the benefits to running a snorkel posted here. Is the air at snorkel height truly cooler than the air at the height of conventional intake heights that it would be more oxygen rich or even cleaner depending on where you are driving?

I would imagine there may be some truth to that but to what degree would be my question. Also, what would be the amount of power you would be robbing your engine by running a snorkel as opposed to the stock air intake? would that loss in power be outweighed by the benefit of the less dusty air and cooler air entering your motor?

I will take the word of anyone saying that a snorkel prolongs the life of an air filter, especially in dusty terrain. The proof would be very appearant and physical to the user. Just look at the filter and see the difference in how fast or badly it is being fouled up over time. But would the cost of cutting a fender and buying a snorkel be a better solution to this problem than purchasing a premium washable air filter? I have run K&N and Amsoil filters that can be washed and reused and they have never let me down.

I always thought that snorkel manufacturers claimed the snorkels were meant for desert running air flow as a way to avert liability if anyone using their products floods their motor, or to not have to guarantee water tightness.

I am sure there are many people running many types of terrain where a snorkel would be very handy, and in some cases essential. Where I live and play ( Northern CA) I have never come across a body of water I HAD to cross because there wasn't an alternative way to get where I wanted to go. Yet in the last 5 years, I see snorkels on all types of vehicles. More so in my neighborhood than I see on the trail.

They almost remind me of the giant muffler on a rice rocket fad of the 90s. I am sure those mufflers added some type of benefit, but was it worth installing it onto that Honda Civic?

I'm not anti-snorkel guy or anything, I myself have pondered adding a snorkel to a few of my past owned vehicles. But I have not yet come a across the use case scenario where it made sense for me to buy one and then cut a hole in my truck. If anyone knows of any links to reliable science on the benefits to running snorkel for cleaner air, please post, I would definitely be interestes in reading that.

In the end, do what you like. They do look cool, and in the end, that's a legitimate reason enough to do something to a car or truck. I should know, just ask me how much money I have spent on wheels through the years.

 

[Boostpowered]

This is an interesting thread and I would love to find some real world scientific studies to the theories on the benefits to running a snorkel posted here. Is the air at snorkel height truly cooler than the air at the height of conventional intake heights that it would be more oxygen rich or even cleaner depending on where you are driving?

I would imagine there may be some truth to that but to what degree would be my question. Also, what would be the amount of power you would be robbing your engine by running a snorkel as opposed to the stock air intake? would that loss in power be outweighed by the benefit of the less dusty air and cooler air entering your motor?

I will take the word of anyone saying that a snorkel prolongs the life of an air filter, especially in dusty terrain. The proof would be very appearant and physical to the user. Just look at the filter and see the difference in how fast or badly it is being fouled up over time. But would the cost of cutting a fender and buying a snorkel be a better solution to this problem than purchasing a premium washable air filter? I have run K&N and Amsoil filters that can be washed and reused and they have never let me down.

I always thought that snorkel manufacturers claimed the snorkels were meant for desert running air flow as a way to avert liability if anyone using their products floods their motor, or to not have to guarantee water tightness.

I am sure there are many people running many types of terrain where a snorkel would be very handy, and in some cases essential. Where I live and play ( Northern CA) I have never come across a body of water I HAD to cross because there wasn't an alternative way to get where I wanted to go. Yet in the last 5 years, I see snorkels on all types of vehicles. More so in my neighborhood than I see on the trail.

They almost remind me of the giant muffler on a rice rocket fad of the 90s. I am sure those mufflers added some type of benefit, but was it worth installing it onto that Honda Civic?

I'm not anti-snorkel guy or anything, I myself have pondered adding a snorkel to a few of my past owned vehicles. But I have not yet come a across the use case scenario where it made sense for me to buy one and then cut a hole in my truck. If anyone knows of any links to reliable science on the benefits to running snorkel for cleaner air, please post, I would definitely be interestes in reading that.

In the end, do what you like. They do look cool, and in the end, that's a legitimate reason enough to do something to a car or truck. I should know, just ask me how much money I have spent on wheels through the years.

If you've never needed one then you have the answer right there. If you want scientific study on snorkels I'm sure there is an Australian site or YouTube channel that will explain it to you in detail. Fenders don't cost so much that cutting a hole in them is a problem, if thats the issue you probably won't be able to afford the snorkel.
Those fart pipes on civics did absolutely nothing for performance neither do the wings they put on a fwd vehicle or the cold air intakes that pull heated air from the engine. However if you did any of those mods correctly to a supra, 300zx, 3000gt or a rx7 It would indeed make a difference.

 

[Cpol]

Best investment ever.. don’t forget the breathers

 

[Sparksalot]

If you look at the efforts the muscle car guys did to get more air into an engine in the 60s, then look at the cross section area of any given snorkel, you realize it’s hugely doubtful the engine is getting more Air or enough better air to gain anything.

 

[Boostpowered]

Aren't theories awesome. Its too bad though snorkels have been on vehicles since ww1 so there is plenty of info and know how on them.

I keep looking but just can't find that dirty little restriction since the smallest diameter on the snorkel is 4", the intake pipe from the air box to the turbo is the smallest restriction ive found with an id of 3" and that's stock. There is also another half of the snorkel under the fender that is a flat oval tube with a 7" id as a resonating chamber there is always enough air available even with a turbo helping suck air through it.

 

[Cypress]

I installed one this fall. It is well sealed against water intrusion from end to end. But my XJ isn't sitting on 6" of lift, it's on 2" and the factory intake was only about 30" off the ground. At least one water crossing on my planned spring trip can be over 30" of water depending on rainfall. That's reason enough for me to justify drilling a hole in the fender. I also considered a cowled version, but it was 3 times the cost.

 

[madcratebuilder]

The effectiveness of a snorkel is going to depend a lot on what the OEM air intake is like. On my truck it pulls air from the pass side wheelwell, that can be very dusty depending on road surface. I know I used to get a lot of debris in my air box, small sticks, leafs, dirt and tiny rocks, the filter stopped this but I don't like that junk in the air box. I installed a snorkel and now the air box is clean, the filter stays a lot cleaner, a lot longer My AIT's are 2-3* lower with the snorkel. Bottom line is cooler, cleaner air is entering the air box. I picked up about .5-.8mpg at freeway speeds.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

I installed one this fall. It is well sealed against water intrusion from end to end. But my XJ isn't sitting on 6" of lift, it's on 2" and the factory intake was only about 30" off the ground. At least one water crossing on my planned spring trip can be over 30" of water depending on rainfall. That's reason enough for me to justify drilling a hole in the fender. I also considered a cowled version, but it was 3 times the cost.

I love your XJ. built perfect IMO!

 

[old_man]

I got my snorkel over 20 years ago due to clogged air filters. At the time I was running a puny 2.5L 4 banger. I was able to notice a 4mph increase in top end and even fuel economy. I credit it to the ram effect. I have kept is on the rig as everything has been updated (4.7L Stroker). I have only been in one situation where the snorkel came in handy. If I hadn't spent some quality time waterproofing my distributor, wires, and breathers, I doubt it would have worked. I was starting to float. If you are going to go deeper, think about what is going to happen to your radiator as the fan gets sucked into it.

I highly recommend staying away from water deeper than about 18", especially if it is moving. One small problem can cost you an engine, or worse. If you drive an XJ, carry a spare TPS.

 

[bgenlvtex]

I have to admit I am generally not a fan, and I think gains are minimal for the overwhelming majority of consumers.

BUT, I do think the mid century industrial design of the Hauk River Raider is pretty cool and reduces some exposure to being removed against your will. A cyclonic precleaner like found on a tractor would probably have more value in keeping air filters clean than any of the snorkel systems

 

[LONO100]

If you've never needed one then you have the answer right there. If you want scientific study on snorkels I'm sure there is an Australian site or YouTube channel that will explain it to you in detail. Fenders don't cost so much that cutting a hole in them is a problem, if thats the issue you probably won't be able to afford the snorkel.
Those fart pipes on civics did absolutely nothing for performance neither do the wings they put on a fwd vehicle or the cold air intakes that pull heated air from the engine. However if you did any of those mods correctly to a supra, 300zx, 3000gt or a rx7 It would indeed make a difference.

Whoops, looks like I touched a nerve. Let me clarify: I'm not saying snorkels are useless, like I said, I am certain there are many people who cross lots of water and the snorkel comes in handy. I just question manufacturers' claims that it's "for desert" conditions as a way to avoid liability in the vent someone floods their motor. I'm not saying that because I don't need one means that YOU personally don't need one. I don't even know who you are, but if you say you do, I believe you and anyone else who uses one. My ask for any links to serious studies on the benefits of running a snorkel in the desert is a genuine ask. I'd love to see something on that. Maybe something more credible than a guy on youtube. I'm still trying to piece together the argument that if "you don't need one, there's your answer right there". Not sure what that means. And no, just because somebody isn't running a piece of gear, doesn't mean that they can't afford it. That point sounds a little silly. Sorry to anybody I offended who runs a snorkel, I'm sure they are great.

 

[Boostpowered]

Whoops, looks like I touched a nerve. Let me clarify: I'm not saying snorkels are useless, like I said, I am certain there are many people who cross lots of water and the snorkel comes in handy. I just question manufacturers' claims that it's "for desert" conditions as a way to avoid liability in the vent someone floods their motor. I'm not saying that because I don't need one means that YOU personally don't need one. I don't even know who you are, but if you say you do, I believe you and anyone else who uses one. My ask for any links to serious studies on the benefits of running a snorkel in the desert is a genuine ask. I'd love to see something on that. Maybe something more credible than a guy on youtube. I'm still trying to piece together the argument that if "you don't need one, there's your answer right there". Not sure what that means. And no, just because somebody isn't running a piece of gear, doesn't mean that they can't afford it. That point sounds a little silly. Sorry to anybody I offended who runs a snorkel, I'm sure they are great.

I'm not offended i just don't get those who deny something thats been used with great results for over 100 years. Its like saying the wheel is b.s. and won't work.
If you want a scientific study your gonna have to do that yourself not to many folks have the instruments, time or knowhow to do so.
If you do however want to run your own test and understand more about it to go take some college courses on thermodynamics and fluidynamics aka hydrodynamic. Look up what surface temps on tarmac compared to ambient air temps are that can give you an idea of how much cooler air there is available.

 

[Kilo Sierra]

I live in New England, and with the amount of moisture out here has made me curious if I would NEED one. I currently use a "normal" K&N air filter on my Ranger and those are pretty pricey, but I just have to clean it vs replace it. Any thoughts from the community?

I would say you don't NEED one. I've gone to Vermont Overland twice (and run some of the Class IV's during the summer) and I've never been in a situation where I would have wished I had one.

From an Xterra point of view (not sure what you are running) the only thing you would NEED to do is extend your diff breathers so they do not become submerged. You may want to check your vehicle to see if you need to do the same.

The snorkel is primarily used for dust (think dry sun-baked dirt roads in VT), and not so much about moisture. You may WANT one for piece of mind (or because they look cool imo) in the case of excessive dust or possible water intrusion, but if you're in water that high you also have to consider your electronics in the engine bay as well. To me if you aren't speeding through water you shouldn't necessarily be in a situation where you would require it.

The only things that make me not put one one, is because when on a tight trail (and I've been on trails where the vegetation swallows rigs) I'd be worried about popping the head off unless I reinforce it, or wondering about it's performance in heavy snowfalls. I've heard its not a big deal, but it does remain a question. I may get one eventually (to try it out), but it's almost at the bottom of my list.

4xoverland has an old video on youtube explaining the effectiveness of the snorkel. Also I believe OB did a video as well.

 

[Honeymooners]

Living in Montana and putting many off road miles on and doing some creek & river crossings I still have not needed on. However every year we do a 10 day desert trek, yeah one with the dust filter would be really nice. The OEM one gets extremely dirty.

 

[Downs]

I have used K&N filters for many years and although they cost more initially, they are worth the investment because you clean them when they get dirty, put them back in and you get a better performing engine with them

I live in New England, and with the amount of moisture out here has made me curious if I would NEED one. I currently use a "normal" K&N air filter on my Ranger and those are pretty pricey, but I just have to clean it vs replace it. Any thoughts from the community?

I'd take those K&Ns and toss them in the garbage, or sell them to someone who just has to have it. Paper/fiber are much better at keeping out contaminants. Here's a test done to ISO standards on the K&N vs something like a stock replacement AC DELCO filter. K&N is a good marketing company. OEMs spend a lot of time money and resources finding intakes that flow plenty of air while remaining quiet and filtering well. Believe it or not they get it right the vast majority of the time and no bolt on or drop in mod is going to make their work better and in many instances will make it worse. For the cost of a K&N for my 4.0L I can buy WIX filters for the next 120,000 miles.

K&N Air Filter Review - Debunking the Myths (and why OEM is better)

Before spending your money on an aftermarket intake, let's debunk the misleading incomplete info about filtering and horsepower in the sales literature.

www.nicoclub.com

And a less scientific but more entertaining than reading an article video from Project Farm.




As for snorkels. I'm not big on them. Just don't care for the look, but I did use my XJ's stock airbox (and filter) to make a cowl intake keeping the stock intake and box and simply rerouting the intake from behind the headlight to the base of the windshield. This gives you a little more protection from water and based on intake air temp readings gives a 70-90 degree drop in intake temps compared to the stock setup at speed. At idle or putting around you don't see as much drop but still some. The base of the windshield/cowl area is a high pressure area on XJs when you are going down the road.

 

[M Rose]

@LONO100

Your questions regarding snorkels is justified... As for the benefits of snorkels being documented... the US military spent billions of dollars researching the effectiveness of snorkels... as for Power Gains... they are minimal at most, and any power increase is more than likely due to improved filtration over the stock filter, but not because of the snorkel itself. But as far as the ability to keep the filters from clogging up as quickly, they do that quite well, add a pre-filter and the main air filter hardly has any contamination over the corse of a year.

As posted earlier, a snorkel doesn’t have to require a hole being put into your fender... This spring when I finish putting my Bronco back together I’m going to be running my snorkel inside the cabin... if I can find a decent way to rout it, otherwise I will be going into my cowel and have the ability to add a dust prefilter when needed.

 

[MidOH]

It's more than just diameter. Length and number of turns have drastic effects on air flow. Especially at such low pressures. And the screen at the tip of the snorkel? LOL.

Put one end of a manometer in your intake, in front of the throttle body. Put the other end at the base of your windshield. Put a vacuum gauge on your intake.
If the manometer's water level doesn't move, and there's no vacuum at full throttle up hill, you're likely OK.

Good luck.

 

[M Rose]

It's more than just diameter. Length and number of turns have drastic effects on air flow. Especially at such low pressures. And the screen at the tip of the snorkel? LOL.

Put one end of a manometer in your intake, in front of the throttle body. Put the other end at the base of your windshield. Put a vacuum gauge on your intake.
If the manometer's water level doesn't move, and there's no vacuum at full throttle up hill, you're likely OK.

Good luck.

When I say “Pre-Filter” I’m not talking the little screen at the top... I’m talking a real pre-filter...