Sleeping: hardshell + full rack vs softshell + mid rack vs topper + tailgate tent

[nuclear_runner]

After my infamous thread here I ended up buying a Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison CCSB. While I was shopping vehicles, I did some basic looking into how I'd build it out just to make sure I could do more or less what I wanted. The three main ideas I had were as follows (+) pro (-) con:

1. Hardshell tent with a full size rack
Sample build: Leitner Active Cargo rack with the GFC Superlight

• (+) Quick/easy setup
• (+) Under 200 lbs (varies on tent)
• (+) Mostly fully usable bed
• (+) ACS has lots of accessories
• (-) Not sure how milage will be affected by the tent and rack, tent is not a huge deal but it is my daily driver so I'd like to not affect my mileage significantly with just the rack
• (-) Full size rack is harder to deploy, partially offset by pop up nature of the tent
• (-) More weight higher up (varies on tent)
• (-) No stealth camping

Tent wants: lightweight (120 lbs or less is ideal), sleeps 2 decently comfortably, aerodynamic, quick set up, easy to mount (solo mounting is a big plus)

2. Softshell tent with a mid size rack
Sample build: MAX Modular 10" rack with Yakima SkyRise 3

• (+) Significantly under 200 lbs
• (+) Easy to reach
• (+) Weight is lower to the ground
• (+) Probably cheaper (varies on tent)
• (+) Rack should have minimal impact on mileage, tent should be mostly below the cab/Prinsu rack
• (-) Can't use bed for some loads (and if Decked, even more limited)
• (-) Setting up softshells takes longer generally
• (-) No stealth camping
• (-) Lose some real estate on the sides of the rack (but might gain on the front rack depending on overlap)

Tent wants: lightweight (120 lbs or less is ideal), sleeps 2 decently comfortably, quick set up, not super tall

One note about the GFC Superlight. It's not shipping until Sept 2021. That's mighty close to might next big trip and it would be a REAL shame not to have something by then.

3. Hard shell cap with tailgate tent
Sample build: Leer cap with TopperLift Nomad Camper and Decked platform

• (+) Quick to set up in bad weather (I could TECHNICALLY fit diagonal in a pinch)
• (+) Luxurious amounts of space
• (+) Cap can be useful for everyday purposes
• (+) Can stealth camp (again, I can technically fit diagonally)
• (-) Can't do truck stuff with some items
• (-) Tailgate tent is kind of a pain, requires extender for me to fully fit
• (-) Some caps can take a beating on certain trails
• (-) Some storage compromises (traction, water, bikes can be tricky, but a cab roof rack or topper roof rack can help)
• (-) Heavy, but might come in under 200 (not including Decked, since I may or may not do that on the other builds, undecided)

So here's what I'm looking for, since I've never run ANY of these systems (previously had a sleep platform in a CR-V, which is closest to 3): Anything big I'm missing on the pros/cons list? What has your experience been with each? And most importantly, I'm looking for some advice on tents. As much as I wanted to keep this thread 'general' I do think the specific tent is important to the discussion. I included some tent parameters. My overall goal is to carry shelter without drastically impacting my MPG on the highway or impacting my MPG at all when the tent isn't on. Will see use frequently as a weekend warrior and 1-2 big trips a year.

Note about budget: there really isn't one. I'd rather hold off on almost every other part of the built to get this right. If you need something to guide you, ~1k for a rack and 3k for a tent is what I was imagining. I wouldn't cry if it ended up being more. I'm more worried about underspending and having to upgrade sooner than overspending.

 

[rgallant]

I think you need to choose use the bed or not, but there is a popup canopy which is pretty cool. They raise up and give you sleeping space above storage. No links I am afraid but I looked at one at the last 2019 BC Overland rally and it was well thought out

 

[nuclear_runner]

I think you need to choose use the bed or not, but there is a popup canopy which is pretty cool. They raise up and give you sleeping space above storage. No links I am afraid but I looked at one at the last 2019 BC Overland rally and it was well thought out

Let me put it this way: Heavily leaning towards 1. If I could get the Superlight next month I probably wouldn't have even posted this thread. But since I can't, I started looking at all my options and ended up here. I more or less ruled out 3. during my midsized search but after laying in the bed to test it out, added it back in.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Nice choice in offroad truck. Unfortunately you are right- you get a little limited if you want to sleep under a camper shell, depending how tall you are. I have a full size truck, GMC Sierra with a 6.5 foot bed. I'm only 6 feet, so I can do it all while keeping inside the Leer shell. It makes things simple, though it may not look as cool

 

[BensonSTW]

One thing I would recommend is, if you do go the camper shell route, talk to the manufacturer about warrantee. I bought an ARE topper for my truck the first go around. 2500 dollars and in six months the fiberglass layers were separating. I could push on the side and watch the gel coat flex until it hit an inner layer. It was like a big air pocket. Saw it had warrantee and I drove it all the way back to Oregon where I bought. First words out of their mouth- you have over size mud tires and a lift. Warrantee void. The tires and suspension caused excess vibrations that it wasn’t designed to handle, according to them. I’d make sure to do your research before you buy.

 

[Road]

I have a full size Pioneer Platform Rhino Rack - I believe it's their largest one - on my trailer with a hardshell RTT.

The rack itself is easy to raise and lower by myself, even with the RTT and gear up there, with 4 gas struts to assist. I've done it literally hundreds of times, with over 600 nights out.
I've moved the tent about up there by myself when wanting to adjust it forward or back, even once spinning it 180 to reattach so the door with the awning would be on the side I wanted.
It's been one of the best investments I've made to keep me out camping longer in greater comfort and ease.



I posted extensively about what I consider benefits of an RTT here: #3 post in this thread about the RTT vs ground tent vs setup in the back of one's rig, all of which I've used in various forms over the years.

There is also this thread (in which I posted #4 post) linking several other threads here in the forums on various RTT / Ground Tent / softshell or hardshell / preferred shelter options.

There are a ton of posts about who likes what. The two links above should give you a lot of opinions and info on choices.


..



After having my setup as shown above for a few years now, I wouldn't go back to a ground tent or pickup and shell.

 

[nuclear_runner]

Nice choice in offroad truck. Unfortunately you are right- you get a little limited if you want to sleep under a camper shell, depending how tall you are. I have a full size truck, GMC Sierra with a 6.5 foot bed. I'm only 6 feet, so I can do it all while keeping inside the Leer shell. It makes things simple, though it may not look as cool

Thanks! I'm really excited to get out there! I should add, I'm 6'3", so preeeetty limited even with a fullsize (if you look at my car buying thread, you'll see a lot of frustration about the lack of long bed offroad trims esp for full size trucks).

One thing I would recommend is, if you do go the camper shell route, talk to the manufacturer about warrantee. I bought an ARE topper for my truck the first go around. 2500 dollars and in six months the fiberglass layers were separating. I could push on the side and watch the gel coat flex until it hit an inner layer. It was like a big air pocket. Saw it had warrantee and I drove it all the way back to Oregon where I bought. First words out of their mouth- you have over size mud tires and a lift. Warrantee void. The tires and suspension caused excess vibrations that it wasn’t designed to handle, according to them. I’d make sure to do your research before you buy.

I did a quick google on 'off road camper warranty' and it's not looking too good, many will just void it if you drive 'off road' whatever that means. Seems like many get away with it, but it's def another minus toward this setup (along with my height).

I have a full size Pioneer Platform Rhino Rack - I believe it's their largest one - on my trailer with a hardshell RTT.

The rack itself is easy to raise and lower by myself, even with the RTT and gear up there, with 4 gas struts to assist. I've done it literally hundreds of times, with over 600 nights out.
I've moved the tent about up there by myself when wanting to adjust it forward or back, even once spinning it 180 to reattach so the door with the awning would be on the side I wanted.
It's been one of the best investments I've made to keep me out camping longer in greater comfort and ease.

View attachment 191572

I posted extensively about what I consider benefits of an RTT here: #3 post in this thread about the RTT vs ground tent vs setup in the back of one's rig, all of which I've used in various forms over the years.

There is also this thread (in which I posted #4 post) linking several other threads here in the forums on various RTT / Ground Tent / softshell or hardshell / preferred shelter options.

There are a ton of posts about who likes what. The two links above should give you a lot of opinions and info on choices.

View attachment 191575
..

View attachment 191576

After having my setup as shown above for a few years now, I wouldn't go back to a ground tent or pickup and shell.

Thanks for this very informative post. There's a lot of helpful info and resources and a lot for me to digest! Going to come back to this after work. Your setup looks wonderful!

 

[madcratebuilder]

I have a 6' bed on my ZR2, Softopper over decked drawer system, light weight, large sleeping area. I use a Slumberjack if I'm going to be stationary more than one night. Softopper just came out with a extension tent for the 5' bed, allows you to leave the tailgate down for sleeping.

 

[nuclear_runner]

So I'm kind of narrowing in on the Roofnest (Falcon or Sparrow probs). Still having difficulty finding how much this affects mileage (TheDrive claims they got hit 3 MPG off a 25 MPG vehicle, which is like 22% which seems kind of high to me) or wind noise, but it seems to very between 20% and 0% depending on the vehicle. I imagine on my already very aerodynamically disadvantaged Bison it will hopefully be minimal.

 

[BensonSTW]

Overlanding vehicles are supposed to be loud. They handle like crap. Ride like a tank and get lousy fuel mileage. Sell the new truck. It’s making you too picky. Get a 75 Ford F-250 highboy. 8 miles per gallon. Loaded or empty. And it has an 8 foot bed. Just screwing with ya. Can’t wait to see what you end up with.

 

[Road]

So I'm kind of narrowing in on the Roofnest (Falcon or Sparrow probs). Still having difficulty finding how much this affects mileage (TheDrive claims they got hit 3 MPG off a 25 MPG vehicle, which is like 22% which seems kind of high to me) or wind noise, but it seems to very between 20% and 0% depending on the vehicle. I imagine on my already very aerodynamically disadvantaged Bison it will hopefully be minimal.

.

Losing 3mpg on a vehicle that typically gets 25mpg is losing 12%, not 22%. That would be to lose 5.5mpg off 25. Anything you add to a roof and changing the aerodynamics of the way the vehicle was designed is most likely going to affect mileage, though can be made worse or better by how it's mounted, how far from the roof, how aerodynamic the hardshell and rack is, etc.

Some folks put a fairing up front of their rack to help guide air up and over. No real way of knowing, I guess, what will work best unless you go through the pain of building an exact model and do wind tunnel tests, or finding a life size wind tunnel, both of which I'm sure is more trouble than it's worth. I'd love to put my van and trailer setup in a wind tunnel to see how much of the air flowing over the van goes right over the top of the trailer too, or if it curls down just past the van and interacts with surfaces there.

As for losing a bit of miles per gallon, comes down to what has more value; what are you willing to trade off. A little mileage or not having the benefits of an RTT.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

.

Losing 3mpg on a vehicle that typically gets 25mpg is losing 12%, not 22%. That would be to lose 5.5mpg off 25. Anything you add to a roof and changing the aerodynamics of the way the vehicle was designed is most likely going to affect mileage, though can be made worse or better by how it's mounted, how far from the roof, how aerodynamic the hardshell and rack is, etc.

Some folks put a fairing up front of their rack to help guide air up and over. No real way of knowing, I guess, what will work best unless you go through the pain of building an exact model and do wind tunnel tests, or finding a life size wind tunnel, both of which I'm sure is more trouble than it's worth. I'd love to put my van and trailer setup in a wind tunnel to see how much of the air flowing over the trailer goes right over the top of the trailer too, or if it curls down just past the van and interacts with surfaces there.

As for losing a bit of miles per gallon, comes down to what has more value; what are you will to trade off. A little mileage or not having the benefits of an RTT.

Thank you for pointing that out, @Road. I just did that math and decided to finish reading the comments before I posted.

For me, the more I can contain inside the Leer hard shell, the less my aerodynamics will be affected. Also, it keeps things in the bed of my truck, so center of gravity remains low, and traction is all the better even without 4x4 activated. And since most of my driving is highway, that's important to me. That's why I chose a truck with a 6.5 ft bed and put a cap on it. I know that doesnt work for everyone

 

[nuclear_runner]

.

Losing 3mpg on a vehicle that typically gets 25mpg is losing 12%, not 22%. That would be to lose 5.5mpg off 25. Anything you add to a roof and changing the aerodynamics of the way the vehicle was designed is most likely going to affect mileage, though can be made worse or better by how it's mounted, how far from the roof, how aerodynamic the hardshell and rack is, etc.

Some folks put a fairing up front of their rack to help guide air up and over. No real way of knowing, I guess, what will work best unless you go through the pain of building an exact model and do wind tunnel tests, or finding a life size wind tunnel, both of which I'm sure is more trouble than it's worth. I'd love to put my van and trailer setup in a wind tunnel to see how much of the air flowing over the trailer goes right over the top of the trailer too, or if it curls down just past the van and interacts with surfaces there.

As for losing a bit of miles per gallon, comes down to what has more value; what are you will to trade off. A little mileage or not having the benefits of an RTT.

Wow that's embarrassing! I tried to subtract 88 from 100 and got 22 and I have a PhD in nuclear physics. That, then, checks out exactly with colloquial forum evidence.

 

[grubworm]

I have a PhD in nuclear physics

guess you'll be skipping solar panels and going straight to a small reactor for off grid....



i have a tundra with 6.5 bed and an ARE cap on it. it has a cargo basket on top and a hitch mount cargo rack that swings away for quick and easy access to the bed. i also built a decked system for storage and a platform for a mattress. the wife and i just did a week in west texas camping out of it. we did some stealth camping at south padre island and rest of the time was remote desert camping. this set up works great for the two of us. we also have a small camp trailer we take and generally use it as a base camp. the truck and shell combo is super advantageous for the reasons you mentioned as well as other reasons. the set up also works great for daily use. the cap is great storage for tools and stuff and i can just open the rear window of the cap and still slide sheets of plywood in the back.

its all a personal choice and i just personally dont like the idea of having to deploy a tent, mainly because of the negatives you already addressed. one thing i love about the cap is how quick it works. say i'm driving and its 1 am and i'm tired as hell. i can pull over anywhere, immediately hop in the back and go to sleep. wake up in a couple hours and immediately hop back into the driver's seat and be on the road. that is a very handy feature!

 

[nuclear_runner]

guess you'll be skipping solar panels and going straight to a small reactor for off grid....

View attachment 191679

i have a tundra with 6.5 bed and an ARE cap on it. it has a cargo basket on top and a hitch mount cargo rack that swings away for quick and easy access to the bed. i also built a decked system for storage and a platform for a mattress. the wife and i just did a week in west texas camping out of it. we did some stealth camping at south padre island and rest of the time was remote desert camping. this set up works great for the two of us. we also have a small camp trailer we take and generally use it as a base camp. the truck and shell combo is super advantageous for the reasons you mentioned as well as other reasons. the set up also works great for daily use. the cap is great storage for tools and stuff and i can just open the rear window of the cap and still slide sheets of plywood in the back.

its all a personal choice and i just personally dont like the idea of having to deploy a tent, mainly because of the negatives you already addressed. one thing i love about the cap is how quick it works. say i'm driving and its 1 am and i'm tired as hell. i can pull over anywhere, immediately hop in the back and go to sleep. wake up in a couple hours and immediately hop back into the driver's seat and be on the road. that is a very handy feature!

Well I'm more the CERN type than the LANL type if you catch my drift.

If you check out my buying thread, you'll see why I didn't go full size long bed. If I had gone that route, I'd absolutely go with the cap. I'm so tall that I'd need the long bed full size which was super limiting in my choices (and for some reason they're not very popular, big cabs are king in America). The hardshell tents seem to go up and down pretty quick and it should be ALMOST as easy as just hopping in the back. Granted... you can't stealth camp.

 

[Rolando]

I had similar thoughts and went with a mid bed rack and a smaller hybrid hard shell tent (folding out to the side). The benefit is that it is still a hard shell, with the typical benefits of fast deployment, etc., and it fits on the short bed of my Jeep as well as having parts of the tent "tucked under". There is still some room for larger items in the truck bed for the occasional dump run, etc.

There are various vendors for those, and I went with the Tuffstuff Alpha 2 because it was the economically most feasible option (esp. at Black Friday last year).

 

[MidOH]

That looks expensive. For expensive RTT, I really like the Bundutecs:

 

[nuclear_runner]

That looks expensive. For expensive RTT, I really like the Bundutecs:

I'm not opposed to expensive for fast setup and durability. I'll add it to my spreadsheet! I've also read some pretty mixed things about GFC's durability...

 

[RoarinRow]

guess you'll be skipping solar panels and going straight to a small reactor for off grid....

View attachment 191679

i have a tundra with 6.5 bed and an ARE cap on it. it has a cargo basket on top and a hitch mount cargo rack that swings away for quick and easy access to the bed. i also built a decked system for storage and a platform for a mattress. the wife and i just did a week in west texas camping out of it. we did some stealth camping at south padre island and rest of the time was remote desert camping. this set up works great for the two of us. we also have a small camp trailer we take and generally use it as a base camp. the truck and shell combo is super advantageous for the reasons you mentioned as well as other reasons. the set up also works great for daily use. the cap is great storage for tools and stuff and i can just open the rear window of the cap and still slide sheets of plywood in the back.

its all a personal choice and i just personally dont like the idea of having to deploy a tent, mainly because of the negatives you already addressed. one thing i love about the cap is how quick it works. say i'm driving and its 1 am and i'm tired as hell. i can pull over anywhere, immediately hop in the back and go to sleep. wake up in a couple hours and immediately hop back into the driver's seat and be on the road. that is a very handy feature!

Agreed, I like the ability of stealth camping when needed with a cap setup.

 

[John21powerwagon]

doesn’t have the cool factor.