Single unified communication system for Overland Bound members

[Overland Omnivore]

I kinda like the idea of using CB channel 08 because it is close to the letters OB for Overland Bound...but if 16 is set in stone ill go with that

 

[Kent R]

Good idea but yes it is in stone as of right now.

 

[TacoRat]

I have been using ham radio (2M/70cm) with APRS with proximity voice alert. Basically you set your radius, if someone else comes within your set area and is using APRS with CTCSS on, you will receive a page with the persons callsign, location and frequency being monitored. You can call them directly using the APRS frequency as well. The is has been a pretty cool feature for me so far. http://aprs.org

View attachment 68971

 

[Desert Runner]

While i have all the bases covered, i do not have my ticket yet. For those that don't, you could just monitor any group instructions, and use your CB for personal or vehicle to vehicle communication, with a agreed upon channel.

 

[Desert Runner]

Reading this conversation, allowed me to update my phone with a new app.
_____________________________________________________________________
britz said: ↑
After our campfire conversation last night, I'm sold on getting a GMRS license for Canada trips, etc. even though I use all the before-mentioned. I can't stress enough, especially for people who don't live in logging territory but want to explore these areas, it's imperative to know where and when loggers are rolling.

and the following from Kent R number. 1632

Sent from my Moto E (4) using OB Talk mobile app
I’m looking into GMRS right now! I still don’t want three radios, but we think it will be for the better.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I found out gmrs is NOT the same as Canadian road channels.

 

[Kent R]

I found out gmrs is NOT the same as Canadian road channels.

Can you send me a link to the Canadian channels. I want to update the OLB list. Kent@overlandbound.com

 

[1Louder]

OK guys, here it is. OLB Comms Channels:

• Ham 146.46
• GMRS 15
• CB 16

OB could apply for its own simplex frequency. You would own it so to speak. I think if you do that users won’t require a HAM license but the FCC could tell you about that. I believe the cost is around $150.

One thing with 146.46 that is incredibly annoying is people carrying on long conversations. Find people on that channel and move on to something else. This is why dual band radios are so nice.

My 1 Cent.

 

[Kent R]

OB could apply for its own simplex frequency. You would own it so to speak. I think if you do that users won’t require a HAM license but the FCC could tell you about that. I believe the cost is around $150.

One thing with 146.46 that is incredibly annoying is people carrying on long conversations. Find people on that channel and move on to something else. This is why dual band radios are so nice.

My 1 Cent.

Good info, we are working on something right now! so standby more to come.

 

[Kent R]

OB could apply for its own simplex frequency. You would own it so to speak. I think if you do that users won’t require a HAM license but the FCC could tell you about that. I believe the cost is around $150.

One thing with 146.46 that is incredibly annoying is people carrying on long conversations. Find people on that channel and move on to something else. This is why dual band radios are so nice.

My 1 Cent.

@brien

 

[brien]

@1Louder @Kent R

The idea of 146.46 as the "OB frequency" is purely for making "first contact" After that people would, and should, move to a separate simplex frequency in most situations. I think driving people to get their ham license is still a much better approach than having some oddball OB specific frequency which i assume would end up being Business Band, which I believe can only be used with FCC licensed business band radios, which would _then_ mean forcing anybody who wanted to use the OB frequency to have to go out and buy a business band radio.

Having a ham license is just so much more valuable of a tool, especially for those who are interested in overlanding/adventuring.

 

[1Louder]

Well my final rebuttal would be using 146.46 is a bad idea. It is already over used. Even if every OB ham operator follows the rules by switching frequencies good luck getting through when hundreds of groups already use this frequency. Especially those with no valid license and a $30 Baofeng radio.

You should also establish the alternate frequencies so folks can get them programmed into their radios. Lots of folks don’t know how to manually program.

K1LDR clear

 

[Captain Chaos]

Can you send me a link to the Canadian channels. I want to update the OLB list. Kent@overlandbound.com

Sent you an email

 

[brien]

Well my final rebuttal would be using 146.46 is a bad idea

146.46 (and especially 146.52, the national calling frequency) are generally accepted "calling frequencies" the whole point of these frequencies is to make initial contact to see who's out there. Using a calling frequency is not a bad idea, in fact, it is the accepted best practice among hams to make initial contact. Once contact has been made, operators should (again, this is best practice) agree upon a NEW simplex frequency, and then switch over (QSY). Every licensed amateur radio operator, in the U.S. at least, should hopefully understand this behavior, especially considering they have taken a test who's question pool asks specifically about this situation, if i am remembering correctly.

At risk of continuing to sound like a broken record: the recommendation to use 146.46 for "OB Comms" is ONLY as a calling frequency, as, again, it is the generally accepted off-road national calling frequency. I'll point out that i've also called this out in the official OB comms guide:

Once contact has been made, operators should (again, this is best practice) agree upon a NEW simplex frequency, and then switch over.
This frequency is the generally accepted off-road calling frequency. Amateur operator etiquette means that this common calling frequency should be used primarily for initial contact. Any extended conversations or group use, like communication while on a trip or a trail run, should likely be moved to a different nearby frequency.​

I would like to address your two other great points, which i'm glad you brought up.
1) Unlicensed operators - The amateur bands are self-policed by amateur operators. We should always reject communication with unlicensed operators, in fact, the FCC requires it for all licensed operators. Amateur operators risk having their license revoked if they communicate with unlicensed hams. If these unlicensed operators are known, for example people in our group run, we should be telling them that they absolutely cannot operate, and at the same time giving them advice/support for getting them licensed. We are also working behind the scenes towards some training programs to help more Overland Bound members get licensed as well.

I'll also point out that if an unlicensed operator is very very persistent in their "but nobody is gonna care if i do it for this one trip are they?" routine, it is probably a sign that they just really want to be a part of the comms, and it might be a good diplomatic decision to select a different radio type that they can us, like FRS, CB, or if they are licensed for it, GMRS. Of note, this is why we've selected GMRS 15 as the official FRS/GMRS channel, as the channels between the two services overlap. GMRS users can blast up to 50W on channel 15, FRS can TX up to 2W. I always have a couple of extra FRS radios in the rig so that if I decided to use licensed GMRS as the main comms, i can give out the unlicensed FRS radios to the unlicensed operators so they can still participate.

2) Programming radios, especially the popular Chinese radios. Before i get to the meat of this, i want to first say that as far as simplex goes, on all HTs I've ever used (Baofeng, Kenwood, Yaesu) switching to a simplex frequency is basically as easy as punching in the desired frequency. For simplex there is no need for programming in offsets, ctcss tones, pl tones, etc. So for simplex uses, no manual programming knowledge is generally required. If a group leader has decided to use ham radio as the primary communication for a trip, they should be sure that 1) everybody using it is licensed, and 2) they (the run leader) will be able to help people punch in frequencies if help is requested. If a group leader is unable to do both of those, they should not select ham as the primary communication.

Now, as far as programming and using repeaters (which required programming), i've been thinking about this a lot lately, especially as i talk to more and more new hams. We all know that the test doesn't help teach you how to actually USE radios, and this is probably the biggest gripe i hear from new hams, and it was definitely the biggest issue i had when i was first licensed - I had my license, but i still had no idea how to use even the simplest radio, let alone program it. To address this, i've been thinking about putting together two things, one is a guide that's like "Ok, I got my license, now what?" That will go over some basic radio usage, radio etiquette, common practices, common terminology/jargon/shorthand, and more importantly, how to find local clubs/meetings/hams to learn from. The second thing is a guide to repeaters and programming baofengs, both manually, and by using a computer/CHIRP. I'm thinking of doing the first iteration of this programming training as a livestream or webinar or something, where anybody in the OB community would be able to join via the internet and interact via live chat in real time to ask questions and such. I've only just started putting this together, so it's not likely to happen until at least December. Due to the holidays I may wait until January so that it will be easier for people to make the time to join in.

 

[Ditcherman]

146.46 (and especially 146.52, the national calling frequency) are generally accepted "calling frequencies" the whole point of these frequencies is to make initial contact to see who's out there. Using a calling frequency is not a bad idea, in fact, it is the accepted best practice among hams to make initial contact. Once contact has been made, operators should (again, this is best practice) agree upon a NEW simplex frequency, and then switch over (QSY). Every licensed amateur radio operator, in the U.S. at least, should hopefully understand this behavior, especially considering they have taken a test who's question pool asks specifically about this situation, if i am remembering correctly.

At risk of continuing to sound like a broken record: the recommendation to use 146.46 for "OB Comms" is ONLY as a calling frequency, as, again, it is the generally accepted off-road national calling frequency. I'll point out that i've also called this out in the official OB comms guide:

Once contact has been made, operators should (again, this is best practice) agree upon a NEW simplex frequency, and then switch over.
This frequency is the generally accepted off-road calling frequency. Amateur operator etiquette means that this common calling frequency should be used primarily for initial contact. Any extended conversations or group use, like communication while on a trip or a trail run, should likely be moved to a different nearby frequency.​

I would like to address your two other great points, which i'm glad you brought up.
1) Unlicensed operators - The amateur bands are self-policed by amateur operators. We should always reject communication with unlicensed operators, in fact, the FCC requires it for all licensed operators. Amateur operators risk having their license revoked if they communicate with unlicensed hams. If these unlicensed operators are known, for example people in our group run, we should be telling them that they absolutely cannot operate, and at the same time giving them advice/support for getting them licensed. We are also working behind the scenes towards some training programs to help more Overland Bound members get licensed as well.

I'll also point out that if an unlicensed operator is very very persistent in their "but nobody is gonna care if i do it for this one trip are they?" routine, it is probably a sign that they just really want to be a part of the comms, and it might be a good diplomatic decision to select a different radio type that they can us, like FRS, CB, or if they are licensed for it, GMRS. Of note, this is why we've selected GMRS 15 as the official FRS/GMRS channel, as the channels between the two services overlap. GMRS users can blast up to 50W on channel 15, FRS can TX up to 2W. I always have a couple of extra FRS radios in the rig so that if I decided to use licensed GMRS as the main comms, i can give out the unlicensed FRS radios to the unlicensed operators so they can still participate.

2) Programming radios, especially the popular Chinese radios. Before i get to the meat of this, i want to first say that as far as simplex goes, on all HTs I've ever used (Baofeng, Kenwood, Yaesu) switching to a simplex frequency is basically as easy as punching in the desired frequency. For simplex there is no need for programming in offsets, ctcss tones, pl tones, etc. So for simplex uses, no manual programming knowledge is generally required. If a group leader has decided to use ham radio as the primary communication for a trip, they should be sure that 1) everybody using it is licensed, and 2) they (the run leader) will be able to help people punch in frequencies if help is requested. If a group leader is unable to do both of those, they should not select ham as the primary communication.

Now, as far as programming and using repeaters (which required programming), i've been thinking about this a lot lately, especially as i talk to more and more new hams. We all know that the test doesn't help teach you how to actually USE radios, and this is probably the biggest gripe i hear from new hams, and it was definitely the biggest issue i had when i was first licensed - I had my license, but i still had no idea how to use even the simplest radio, let alone program it. To address this, i've been thinking about putting together two things, one is a guide that's like "Ok, I got my license, now what?" That will go over some basic radio usage, radio etiquette, common practices, common terminology/jargon/shorthand, and more importantly, how to find local clubs/meetings/hams to learn from. The second thing is a guide to repeaters and programming baofengs, both manually, and by using a computer/CHIRP. I'm thinking of doing the first iteration of this programming training as a livestream or webinar or something, where anybody in the OB community would be able to join via the internet and interact via live chat in real time to ask questions and such. I've only just started putting this together, so it's not likely to happen until at least December. Due to the holidays I may wait until January so that it will be easier for people to make the time to join in.

Here's a link to a video that helped me get my baofeng programmed.

I could still use help on the etiquette/common practices side. I've noticed a difference between people who live and breathe HAM and those who just want to have it available to use from time to time, for those of us like that it is harder to remember everything.

 

[Kent R]

T

Sent you an email

Thank you

 

[Graeman]

Awesome information and you hit the nail on the head about testing and newbies trying to figure out how to be a hammy. Those are the same concerns that I have and why I have not taken my test yet.

146.46 (and especially 146.52, the national calling frequency) are generally accepted "calling frequencies" the whole point of these frequencies is to make initial contact to see who's out there. Using a calling frequency is not a bad idea, in fact, it is the accepted best practice among hams to make initial contact. Once contact has been made, operators should (again, this is best practice) agree upon a NEW simplex frequency, and then switch over (QSY). Every licensed amateur radio operator, in the U.S. at least, should hopefully understand this behavior, especially considering they have taken a test who's question pool asks specifically about this situation, if i am remembering correctly.

At risk of continuing to sound like a broken record: the recommendation to use 146.46 for "OB Comms" is ONLY as a calling frequency, as, again, it is the generally accepted off-road national calling frequency. I'll point out that i've also called this out in the official OB comms guide:

Once contact has been made, operators should (again, this is best practice) agree upon a NEW simplex frequency, and then switch over.
This frequency is the generally accepted off-road calling frequency. Amateur operator etiquette means that this common calling frequency should be used primarily for initial contact. Any extended conversations or group use, like communication while on a trip or a trail run, should likely be moved to a different nearby frequency.​

I would like to address your two other great points, which i'm glad you brought up.
1) Unlicensed operators - The amateur bands are self-policed by amateur operators. We should always reject communication with unlicensed operators, in fact, the FCC requires it for all licensed operators. Amateur operators risk having their license revoked if they communicate with unlicensed hams. If these unlicensed operators are known, for example people in our group run, we should be telling them that they absolutely cannot operate, and at the same time giving them advice/support for getting them licensed. We are also working behind the scenes towards some training programs to help more Overland Bound members get licensed as well.

I'll also point out that if an unlicensed operator is very very persistent in their "but nobody is gonna care if i do it for this one trip are they?" routine, it is probably a sign that they just really want to be a part of the comms, and it might be a good diplomatic decision to select a different radio type that they can us, like FRS, CB, or if they are licensed for it, GMRS. Of note, this is why we've selected GMRS 15 as the official FRS/GMRS channel, as the channels between the two services overlap. GMRS users can blast up to 50W on channel 15, FRS can TX up to 2W. I always have a couple of extra FRS radios in the rig so that if I decided to use licensed GMRS as the main comms, i can give out the unlicensed FRS radios to the unlicensed operators so they can still participate.

2) Programming radios, especially the popular Chinese radios. Before i get to the meat of this, i want to first say that as far as simplex goes, on all HTs I've ever used (Baofeng, Kenwood, Yaesu) switching to a simplex frequency is basically as easy as punching in the desired frequency. For simplex there is no need for programming in offsets, ctcss tones, pl tones, etc. So for simplex uses, no manual programming knowledge is generally required. If a group leader has decided to use ham radio as the primary communication for a trip, they should be sure that 1) everybody using it is licensed, and 2) they (the run leader) will be able to help people punch in frequencies if help is requested. If a group leader is unable to do both of those, they should not select ham as the primary communication.

Now, as far as programming and using repeaters (which required programming), i've been thinking about this a lot lately, especially as i talk to more and more new hams. We all know that the test doesn't help teach you how to actually USE radios, and this is probably the biggest gripe i hear from new hams, and it was definitely the biggest issue i had when i was first licensed - I had my license, but i still had no idea how to use even the simplest radio, let alone program it. To address this, i've been thinking about putting together two things, one is a guide that's like "Ok, I got my license, now what?" That will go over some basic radio usage, radio etiquette, common practices, common terminology/jargon/shorthand, and more importantly, how to find local clubs/meetings/hams to learn from. The second thing is a guide to repeaters and programming baofengs, both manually, and by using a computer/CHIRP. I'm thinking of doing the first iteration of this programming training as a livestream or webinar or something, where anybody in the OB community would be able to join via the internet and interact via live chat in real time to ask questions and such. I've only just started putting this together, so it's not likely to happen until at least December. Due to the holidays I may wait until January so that it will be easier for people to make the time to join in.

 

[Kent R]

Overland bound is currently working on a plan to offer ham crams and testing through the continental United States and eventually through the entire OLB membership. Any questions message me @Kent R

 

[Gryf]

So new member here, never been on a ride with anyone else and would love to group up and do some more adventurous trails. I know we'll need to communicate during those trips and am keenly interested in the decisions being driven here. Outside of cell phones I don't own any radios at at right now.

My only experience with radio is in the army as an FM operator (31K). I have no fear of radios or learning and was even proficient in morse back in the day. I have learned and forgotten the details of radio wave prolongation, why matching units are required and taking licensing tests.That being said I have zero interest in learning virtually anything about radios and the whys and wherefores of them.

For safety you can't beat the simplicity and reliability of devices like the Garmin in reach communication systems. The can also be used in and out of the vehicle and have that SOS function for the real SHTF moments when you're driving or hiking. I hate the idea of things going bad and my wife or I needing to remember how to actually use the radio for anything more than conversation.

My fear is this turns into something that gets in the way of people participating in the hobby. I am am member of a hiking group that has a small group of folks who can post activities. When they started the leader was a novice hiker and there were a lot of low level hikes. 10 years on and there are very few easy walks to bring people into the group. All the hikes are 6 mile round trips with 3K elevation changes. While most folks can do them, they can't maintain the club pace and they get dispirited and left behind.

I'm hoping that whatever system is decided as a core system is easy to use, learn and obtain. I'm a novice who doesn't even know what pressure I should have in my tires. I'd like to spend time fitting myself out rather than fretting over radio licenses.

 

[RyanC]

So new member here, never been on a ride with anyone else and would love to group up and do some more adventurous trails. I know we'll need to communicate during those trips and am keenly interested in the decisions being driven here. Outside of cell phones I don't own any radios at at right now.

My only experience with radio is in the army as an FM operator (31K). I have no fear of radios or learning and was even proficient in morse back in the day. I have learned and forgotten the details of radio wave prolongation, why matching units are required and taking licensing tests.That being said I have zero interest in learning virtually anything about radios and the whys and wherefores of them.

For safety you can't beat the simplicity and reliability of devices like the Garmin in reach communication systems. The can also be used in and out of the vehicle and have that SOS function for the real SHTF moments when you're driving or hiking. I hate the idea of things going bad and my wife or I needing to remember how to actually use the radio for anything more than conversation.

My fear is this turns into something that gets in the way of people participating in the hobby. I am am member of a hiking group that has a small group of folks who can post activities. When they started the leader was a novice hiker and there were a lot of low level hikes. 10 years on and there are very few easy walks to bring people into the group. All the hikes are 6 mile round trips with 3K elevation changes. While most folks can do them, they can't maintain the club pace and they get dispirited and left behind.

I'm hoping that whatever system is decided as a core system is easy to use, learn and obtain. I'm a novice who doesn't even know what pressure I should have in my tires. I'd like to spend time fitting myself out rather than fretting over radio licenses.

I'm with you on keeping the barrier to entry for our hobby low.
I keep my crazy radio stuff until we stop for the day and make camp.

Thank you for keeping us grounded. Any organization that grows past a certain size needs that and I think we've grown a LOT in the last year.