Reason behind Scandinavia's no off-road driving laws?

[kayasaman]

Hi everyone,

I just saw this video:


and there are a few laws here from Norway that make me really puzzled....

So one little tab popped up and said that it was illegal to drive on Snow covered roads that are not regularly cleared as it's defined as "Nature" meaning illegal in Norway.

This is shown just after 4 mins into the video....

There are clearly tire tracks in the snow so what does this mean?

* Technically it isn't legal but people still do it and no one minds and nobody gets punished for it

* It is illegal and like the guy in the video, everyone turns around and finds some other route


It doesn't really make sense to me but if there is something behind it then it would be interesting to figure out what is going on....


Thanks.

 

[grubworm]

governments around the world are pretty much all the same...laws and rules are made for control, or to limit liability...

governments LOVE control, so the people in power will pass laws forbidding everything and then they can enforce that as they see fit. when something is passed into law, nobody can argue when its enforced.

next is liability. say insurance companies have to pay out a lot of money when people drive in snow and get into wrecks. the insurance company can either make driving in snow a stipulation that they are NOT liable for, OR they can spend some money and lobby government to pass a law that favors them...like passing a law to lower speed and if someone is speeding (breaking the law) the insurance company is not liable if the policy holder has a claim while breaking the law.

anytime a law is passed that seems really weird or just stupid...just take a step back and see who benefits from that and it will start making sense...

 

[kayasaman]

governments around the world are pretty much all the same...laws and rules are made for control, or to limit liability...

governments LOVE control, so the people in power will pass laws forbidding everything and then they can enforce that as they see fit. when something is passed into law, nobody can argue when its enforced.

next is liability. say insurance companies have to pay out a lot of money when people drive in snow and get into wrecks. the insurance company can either make driving in snow a stipulation that they are NOT liable for, OR they can spend some money and lobby government to pass a law that favors them...like passing a law to lower speed and if someone is speeding (breaking the law) the insurance company is not liable if the policy holder has a claim while breaking the law.

anytime a law is passed that seems really weird or just stupid...just take a step back and see who benefits from that and it will start making sense...

Well... yeah the current US DJI ban for a start.. uh!

But does anyone actually pay attention?


Saw this... also from Norway and to me this doesn't look like a "public road" or anywhere where you should camp given what has been said

No idea... just trying to work out what actually is "reality" from the authoritative control fantasy

 

[socal66]

I think that Norway is one of the few countries in Europe where you can wild camp and get off pavement to a certain extent.

We can do that a lot more freely here in the American southwest however even here there are rules and laws which may restrict camping or trail access in certain areas under certain conditions and certain times of year so I am not surprised that Norway does the same as well.

We have roads that undergo seasonal snow closures every year and I think the main reasons are for safety and the time and resources needed to rescue stupid people from doing stupid things.

 

[El-Dracho]

The question of wild camping and access to certain tracks in connection with the so-called Everyman's Right or right of public access in Scandinavia comes up from time to time again. The regulations vary slightly between the Scandinavian countries, but are nevertheless similar.

And the Everyman's Right is often misunderstood. There is NO motorized Everyman's Right. This regulation does not give anyone the right to drive a vehicle or camp in nature with a vehicle away from roads. The Everyman's Right gives people the opportunity to move freely in nature without damaging it. Whether it's paddling, hiking, cycling, skiing, or other activities and overnight in a tent. This right generally applies in nature but not at private property, as well as not in specially protected areas such as national parks.

Off-road driving away from the public road network is prohibited in Norway. This is regulated by the so called law on motor traffic in peripheral areas and waterways. Incidentally, this is not necessary at all, because in Norway, as in Sweden and Finland, there are still numerous beautiful dirt roads as part of the public road network or private toll roads that can be legally driven on. In addition, there are several off-road pay and play parks where you can legally drive off-road.

If you are interested in the exact wording of the law, you can read all about it in detail here:

Lov om friluftslivet (friluftsloven) - Kapitel I. Om ferdsel m.v. - Lovdata

Kapitel I. Om ferdsel m.v.

lovdata.no

Lov om motorferdsel i utmark og vassdrag (motorferdselloven) - Lovdata

Motorferdselloven

lovdata.no

Fines for violations are horrendous in Norway and are being enforced much more severely during the recent years due to the increasingly reckless behavior of many people.

 

[kayasaman]

I think that Norway is one of the few countries in Europe where you can wild camp and get off pavement to a certain extent.

We can do that a lot more freely here in the American southwest however even here there are rules and laws which may restrict camping or trail access in certain areas under certain conditions and certain times of year so I am not surprised that Norway does the same as well.

We have roads that undergo seasonal snow closures every year and I think the main reasons are for safety and the time and resources needed to rescue stupid people from doing stupid things.

I've been following many US and Canadian (can I use them in the same sentance?) Overland channels so I do understand what you're saying

I think the auto magazine out of Colorado says it the best though... forgot the name but they reviewed the 4Runner Trailhunter and took the Lexus GX550 OverTrail+ on a simple trail showcasing OnX Offroad
... oh yeah it was TFL OffRoad

They ended up clearing beer cans after other people... it was discussed then I think

 

[kayasaman]

The question of wild camping and access to certain tracks in connection with the so-called Everyman's Right or right of public access in Scandinavia comes up from time to time again. The regulations vary slightly between the Scandinavian countries, but are nevertheless similar.

And the Everyman's Right is often misunderstood. There is NO motorized Everyman's Right. This regulation does not give anyone the right to drive a vehicle or camp in nature with a vehicle away from roads. The Everyman's Right gives people the opportunity to move freely in nature without damaging it. Whether it's paddling, hiking, cycling, skiing, or other activities and overnight in a tent. This right generally applies in nature but not at private property, as well as not in specially protected areas such as national parks.

Off-road driving away from the public road network is prohibited in Norway. This is regulated by the so called law on motor traffic in peripheral areas and waterways. Incidentally, this is not necessary at all, because in Norway, as in Sweden and Finland, there are still numerous beautiful dirt roads as part of the public road network or private toll roads that can be legally driven on. In addition, there are several off-road pay and play parks where you can legally drive off-road.

Fines for violations are horrendous in Norway and are being enforced much more severely during the recent years due to the increasingly reckless behavior of many people.

Thanks El-Dracho! Watching different videos as I did it is so confusing as the first video I published is very strict that even in snowfall you can't go on the road... does this apply to rain too as thats natural?

The next video I watched shows a vehicle clearly off the network... unless that is actually part of a "green" zone?

There is a map for where you can go and can't so maybe that will open up things in more detail?

Its really confusing!!

 

[rgallant]

@kayasaman yea the rise of the instagram/youtube other social media "overlanders" has created a huge rise in off-road pigs. They leave garbage everywhere, little white TP flowers, the only good thing is they tend to go to the same few spots.

I have brought home more two contractor garbage bags on several occasions. It used be just grad season here in BC that was really bad, now it is all year round. You need to get 100 miles plus away from Vancouver and at least 30 to 40 miles off road to get way from it

 

[kayasaman]

@kayasaman yea the rise of the instagram/youtube other social media "overlanders" has created a huge rise in off-road pigs. They leave garbage everywhere, little white TP flowers, the only good thing is they tend to go to the same few spots.

I have brought home more two contractor garbage bags on several occasions. It used be just grad season here in BC that was really bad, now it is all year round. You need to get 100 miles plus away from Vancouver and at least 30 to 40 miles off road to get way from it

Ah you're talking about BC

I really liked the "Slow Roamers" videos that pass through there!

But when looking at channels like "The Story Till Now" which I also enjoy watching, I get worried when they go in big groups... a convoy of 3+ vehicles

To me it just seems like a stampeed and I don't know if a group that large would pick up after themselves

Actually this is a great point you make and something I need to consider... Trash - and how to keep the environment free of human crap

 

[rgallant]

@kayasaman 3 is nothing trust me. The BC 4wd Association often get 30+ vehicles on their newbie runs around Harrison Lake. And the local Land Rover club runs 7 to about 16 on average. The difference is both groups keep clan campsites and stops, the tread lightly principal.

Picture for context : 15 trucks on a day trip this year, at Harrison Lake

 

[kayasaman]

@kayasaman 3 is nothing trust me. The BC 4wd Association often get 30+ vehicles on their newbie runs around Harrison Lake. And the local Land Rover club runs 7 to about 16 on average. The difference is both groups keep clan campsites and stops, the tread lightly principal.

Picture for context : 15 trucks on a day trip this year, at Harrison Lake

View attachment 298194

Amazing pic!! As to be expected from Canada :-)

I guess it should be known as the place of wonders and crazy geese haha....


I'm not sure if I could handle massive groups like that though..... for me 4 vehicles is a pretty big group but then I'm an auDHD (autism + ADHD) so my tolerances are totally different.

Sorry for rambling here but I joined this forum a year ago with the hopes of learning more about Overland travel and equipment needed etc.... everyone here has been absolutely amazing and so helpful.
When I joined I was in a pretty bad state health wise as I had taken a trip to Scotland a year before and had major issues coming back which then led me to be homebound for the last year. Sadly since then my health has deteriorated even further and I'm now trying to seek professional help but even more unfortunately no one is coming forward to offer any support at all. They all keep rejecting me after I explain the reasons. It has been officially classified as "trauma" so at least we know that much....
I'm desperate to get out in the wilderness and away from masses of people because I simply can't cope, my brain is overloaded with stress and useless information.

Whenever I think about places I really wana go it definitely has to be Canada, especially the NWT, and Alaska....

Honestly I don't know if I'm ever going to manage to do anything as my health issues have kept me at home for 2 years now and they keep getting worse, but I am doing whatever I can to push forward in anyway that I can. For example right now I'm looking at getting a ham radio license. I'm really interested in APRS and especially radios with fully KISS enabled TNC's. The upcoming ICOM 5200 looks really attractive to me, though I'm not a big fan of the new Kenwood D750 - I kinda preferred the look of the old D710G which is probably more practical I guess to mount somewhere.

Anyway, it's just a really complicated and upsetting situation for me as I really want to be on the road making headway with my photography and videography, and learning FPV drone skills even though I have various sims and micro drones but flying in a confined space is pretty impossible when you only have a few meters.

 

[rgallant]

@kayasaman yea I get that, I like smaller groups or solo myself but at 68, my wife prefers there is someone else around. I wish you the best of luck, all you can do is persevere.

 

[kayasaman]

@kayasaman yea I get that, I like smaller groups or solo myself but at 68, my wife prefers there is someone else around. I wish you the best of luck, all you can do is persevere.

Thank you :-)