PTSD and Overlanding and "988"

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Smokey_Bear_JLUR

Rank V
Launch Member

Explorer I

2,920
Oakville, MO, USA
First Name
Chris
Last Name
Kuhn
Member #

10810

Service Branch
LEO (Ret'd)
First off, many thanks to the admin (Michael, maybe?) who put this section in place here at OB. I logged on the other day and saw it for the first time and it made me smile. I know it's something that was previously discussed and it was great seeing it happened.

With that said- I hope it's ok if I speak here about something near and dear to my heart. I am a retired Police Officer who left Law Enforcement due to an on-duty injury after 15 years of service. I've also been a "Jeeper" and outdoors enthusiast my entire life. In fact, my Dad drove my Mom to the hospital when she was in labor in his patrol car, and took me home from the hospital in his CJ-6 due to a snow storm the day I was born. You could say I had Police work and off-roading in my life from day one. A second generation copper and second generation Jeeper.

In 2017, I was given a diagnosis of acute PTSD. Apparently, having bullets whiz past your head, seeing a couple hundred dead bodies and watching people die in front of you...sometimes in your arms, all without talking these things through with anyone isn't a good thing. The "ego" of being a First Responder is kind of a real thing. We don't admit pain or emotion well. We push things down and we push forward with whatever our mission is. It's a good thing and a bad thing all at once. It allows us to charge into situations many would run from and see/deal with things most people shouldn't ever have to see or do. It's sometimes called the "Warrior Mindset" It also means we do not share our worries/troubles/emotions/feelings easily with others. This can lead to us experiencing social anxiety, familial withdrawal and even anger issues at times. Personally, It damaged my marriage and my relationship with my daughters. It alienated me from friends and family. Jeeping/Overlanding/camping were always part of who I am, but their importance in my life became far more apparent. I found myself camping a lot more. I found myself on more solo journeys. In many ways, overlanding saved my life. Trip planning gives focus. The day-dreaming of being out in nature soothes the soul, and the trips are like recharging a depleted battery...

I guess the point of this post is to acknowledge my fellow overlanding brothers and sisters who are forced to deal with this same diagnosis. Many of us (too many) silently deal with this every single day.

The secondary point of this post is to speak to our wonderful overlanding/off-roading friends and family; a request of sorts... If you come across a fellow overlander who might not be super talkative, or one who does not seem all that enthusiastic to open up....please take a moment and look at their entire rig and at their entire person:

Are they alone?
Are they maybe quieter than other OB members or overlanders you've met off grid or on trail?
Is there a service branch decal on their rig?
An EMS/Fire service cross?
A Blue Line decal?
Do they seem somewhat uneasy or awkward or maybe even nervous?
Are they possibly a bit more "alpha" and talking a bit more aggressively than other overlanders you've met?

If so, chances are you've met someone who struggles with the inner demons of PTSD. It affects everyone differently and presents its ugly face in a myriad of different ways. Some get quiet. Some get louder. Chances are- you are meeting them at a point where they are in true need of "escape" or alone time. Overlanding does this for me, and many others. It allows us to reset our hearts and minds. It might seem lonely, but for some of us- it's a HUGE step in getting out there and pushing ourselves. My advice? Give us a bit of room, please. We might not be as keen to camp right next to new-found friends. We might not immediately be comfortable sharing a camp meal with people we just met. We might be a little tight-lipped and apprehensive with you. We might constantly watch your hands. We might take a defensive stance (subconsciously) if we are approached unexpectedly while off grid. First off- do not take it personally!!! You've done NOTHING wrong. We are the ones sometimes with social issues. Just give us a bit more space. Look us in the eye and shake our hands. Don't write us off and look for the first exit- just give us a few. We love overlanding for the community/comradery just like you, it just might take us a bit longer to come around.

The point of this post isn't to look for kudos or to "celebrate" PTSD. It's a rather crappy diagnosis to deal with, but it's something that doesn't get discussed much. The point is to talk about something that is typically not discussed with others. As you can probably tell- the off-roading world has a huge number of warrior-minded individuals, many of which have served in some capacity or another. As such, there are a lot of us out there on the trails. I hope that openly discussing this can maybe shed some light on things and open a few eyes, maybe.

I am not a medical professional, by the way. I have no PhD in this. I am simply one of countless others whose life experiences have culminated into this disorder. And rather than hold silent, I would rather advocate for my brothers and sisters who suffer in their silence.

So many of us end up facing suicidal thoughts. And to those I say this: you are NOT broken. There ARE others who get it...who understand. This disorder does NOT define you.

To all: please remember these three digits: 988. Just like "911" 988 is a simple three digit national phone number you can use if you find yourself in those dark moments. Those moments where your mind replays those events over and over and over.... Don't be another statistic. You are MORE than that.

Sorry for the soapbox/rant, everyone. I just had this feeling that someone here needed to know that they are not alone.

God bless,
Chris
 

DintDobbs

Rank V

Advocate III

1,412
First Name
Daniel &
Last Name
the Vulture
@Smokey_Bear_JLUR The truth in this post. Dumb youngbloods throw around "PTSD" like it's a meme. They're scarred for life because somebody on Instagram said they look like Big Bird, and that drove them to suicidal thoughts. That ain't PTSD. That's stupidity.

I applaud you and your kind, the ones who actually do something to contribute to our passive wellbeing, laughing in the face of the hazards and circumstances that ruin countless others physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is not an easy or fun thing to be a hero. It is hardening and demoralizing, and requires means of tolerating circumstances that break others, and presenting yourself as cool, calm, and collected, to keep the normies from freaking out when there's literally a dead guy right beside them. Or worse.

From me to you, know that there's one guy in the swamps who appreciates what you do. You are prayed for in the name of Jesus Christ.
 

2WheelRob

Rank V
Member

Traveler III

1,747
Austin, TX, USA
First Name
Rob
Last Name
Yarger
Member #

31533

Thanks for the words @Smokey_Bear_JLUR . I too am a first responder with PTSD. After 15 years, I could no longer work on the ambulance due to my PTSD. I thought it was just one event that sparked it, but in therapy I found out that was just the straw that broke the camels back. There is 15 years of calls that I had suppressed still lurking in there. My PTSD caused problems in my relationships with both family and friends. Almost ended a career that I love.
Growing up as a Boy Scout, camping was my way of clearing my head, resetting. I'm finding that overlanding gives me an outlet in the same way, just with cooler toys that can take me further into the woods. I don't mind being around others but I can only tolerate new people for brief periods of time before I want to be alone, and then I want to be ALONE.

I'm always available if someone wants to talk. There are numerous crisis lines, and Medics like me are always available with a 911 call.

-PolyM3dic
 

Smokey_Bear_JLUR

Rank V
Launch Member

Explorer I

2,920
Oakville, MO, USA
First Name
Chris
Last Name
Kuhn
Member #

10810

Service Branch
LEO (Ret'd)
Thanks for the words @Smokey_Bear_JLUR . I too am a first responder with PTSD. After 15 years, I could no longer work on the ambulance due to my PTSD. I thought it was just one event that sparked it, but in therapy I found out that was just the straw that broke the camels back. There is 15 years of calls that I had suppressed still lurking in there. My PTSD caused problems in my relationships with both family and friends. Almost ended a career that I love.
Growing up as a Boy Scout, camping was my way of clearing my head, resetting. I'm finding that overlanding gives me an outlet in the same way, just with cooler toys that can take me further into the woods. I don't mind being around others but I can only tolerate new people for brief periods of time before I want to be alone, and then I want to be ALONE.

I'm always available if someone wants to talk. There are numerous crisis lines, and Medics like me are always available with a 911 call.

-PolyM3dic
Man, you nailed it with the, "Straw that broke the camels back" line. It's rarely one call or one incident that causes the disorder. It's the compounding of call after call after call that builds up. And when that balloon pops- it's too late. THIS is what I hope the younger generation of Military/First Responders learns from us: to face these things head on rather than packing it all in for years and years. Great words, buddy.
 

2WheelRob

Rank V
Member

Traveler III

1,747
Austin, TX, USA
First Name
Rob
Last Name
Yarger
Member #

31533

Thanks for the words @Smokey_Bear_JLUR . I too am a first responder with PTSD. After 15 years, I could no longer work on the ambulance due to my PTSD. I thought it was just one event that sparked it, but in therapy I found out that was just the straw that broke the camels back. There is 15 years of calls that I had suppressed still lurking in there. My PTSD caused problems in my relationships with both family and friends. Almost ended a career that I love.
Growing up as a Boy Scout, camping was my way of clearing my head, resetting. I'm finding that overlanding gives me an outlet in the same way, just with cooler toys that can take me further into the woods. I don't mind being around others but I can only tolerate new people for brief periods of time before I want to be alone, and then I want to be ALONE.

I'm always available if someone wants to talk. There are numerous crisis lines, and Medics like me are always available with a 911 call.

-PolyM3dic
Man, you nailed it with the, "Straw that broke the camels back" line. It's rarely one call or one incident that causes the disorder. It's the compounding of call after call after call that builds up. And when that balloon pops- it's too late. THIS is what I hope the younger generation of Military/First Responders learns from us: to face these things head on rather than packing it all in for years and years. Great words, buddy.
To add to that, we as the older generation meed to talk about it. Yes we keep it all bundled in we are protectors and we try to protect others from these memories that haunt us. We can still protect those we love from them amd still discuss our mental health. We need to talk about caring for our mental health to destigmatize it. It's ok to get help. It's not ok to let it fester and grow inside until it breaks us. The help is out there, and there is a ton of it. All you have to do is ask for it. Nobody knows you need help until you reach your hand out and ask for it. It's ok to say "I'm not ok" so many of us don't see it that way. And the only way the "new guys" will, is if we set the example.

I am not ok, but I've reached out for help and I'm in therapy, so I will be.
 

Smokey_Bear_JLUR

Rank V
Launch Member

Explorer I

2,920
Oakville, MO, USA
First Name
Chris
Last Name
Kuhn
Member #

10810

Service Branch
LEO (Ret'd)
@Smokey_Bear_JLUR The truth in this post. Dumb youngbloods throw around "PTSD" like it's a meme. They're scarred for life because somebody on Instagram said they look like Big Bird, and that drove them to suicidal thoughts. That ain't PTSD. That's stupidity.

I applaud you and your kind, the ones who actually do something to contribute to our passive wellbeing, laughing in the face of the hazards and circumstances that ruin countless others physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is not an easy or fun thing to be a hero. It is hardening and demoralizing, and requires means of tolerating circumstances that break others, and presenting yourself as cool, calm, and collected, to keep the normies from freaking out when there's literally a dead guy right beside them. Or worse.

From me to you, know that there's one guy in the swamps who appreciates what you do. You are prayed for in the name of Jesus Christ.
Your post has THE answer: prayer. Thank you for those prayers, my friend.

As for some who act like PTSD is a meme, I agree. It's almost "trendy" now, to have some sort of 'problem". I think many people are looking for validation or recognition, and because of that- everyone seems to be claiming victim status. It's sad, but there are a LOT of First Responders/Military folks who fall into that same category. We call them the "TYFYS" crowd.....always looking for that next person to tell them, 'Thank you for your service". It's nice when someone says it with actual meaning, but many throw out their active or former status in hopes of receiving recognition...like its some drug.

Like many others, I was tight-lipped about my struggles. It wasn't until I had one or two LEO buddies speak to me privately, that I realized there just weren't enough people talking about it. Truth is- the real-deal Armed Forces folks don't readily tell their horror stories, and the real-deal First Responders don't readily tell theirs, either. The show-ponies do, though. And they, like the instagram crowd, will take one incident and use it to define their entire existence. Again- it's sad. That's not a mental health struggle, that's attention-seeking behavior and it muddies the waters of those facing actual demons. I have a life-long friend who lost her Grandfather. The guy lived to be like 90 or something and he had an amazing and loving life. But she makes non-stop references to "how unbearable" life is because of his death, and how his death "gave her PTSD". And he passed away more than a decade ago... Grief affects each of us differently, but the point I'm making is she uses this as her crutch in life. Her Grandfather's death now defines her and she uses it to get attention. I suppose it's all in how you're raised, maybe? I have four daughters, 12-17. Their Mom died in 2020, and I haven't seen even one of them use her death as a crutch. There is still a ton of sadness and depression associated with the loss, but they don't use her death as a manipulation tool for attention. I will admit, though, that my experiences in therapy made me put them into grief counseling right away, and I know that is a huge reason they are flourishing today. But I guarantee they won't have a life-long crutch, and they won't use it to get attention.

Anyway, just wanted to say thank you for keeping us in your prayers. None of us are heroes. None of us would ever claim that title. God made each of us uniquely suited for the lives we lead.

God bless,

Chris
 

North American Sojourner

Rank VI
Member

Inventor I

3,886
Mid-Missouri, MO, USA
First Name
Dave
Last Name
Zimmer
Member #

30139

Service Branch
USN (ret)
First off, many thanks to the admin (Michael, maybe?) who put this section in place here at OB. I logged on the other day and saw it for the first time and it made me smile. I know it's something that was previously discussed and it was great seeing it happened.

With that said- I hope it's ok if I speak here about something near and dear to my heart. I am a retired Police Officer who left Law Enforcement due to an on-duty injury after 15 years of service. I've also been a "Jeeper" and outdoors enthusiast my entire life. In fact, my Dad drove my Mom to the hospital when she was in labor in his patrol car, and took me home from the hospital in his CJ-6 due to a snow storm the day I was born. You could say I had Police work and off-roading in my life from day one. A second generation copper and second generation Jeeper.

In 2017, I was given a diagnosis of acute PTSD. Apparently, having bullets whiz past your head, seeing a couple hundred dead bodies and watching people die in front of you...sometimes in your arms, all without talking these things through with anyone isn't a good thing. The "ego" of being a First Responder is kind of a real thing. We don't admit pain or emotion well. We push things down and we push forward with whatever our mission is. It's a good thing and a bad thing all at once. It allows us to charge into situations many would run from and see/deal with things most people shouldn't ever have to see or do. It's sometimes called the "Warrior Mindset" It also means we do not share our worries/troubles/emotions/feelings easily with others. This can lead to us experiencing social anxiety, familial withdrawal and even anger issues at times. Personally, It damaged my marriage and my relationship with my daughters. It alienated me from friends and family. Jeeping/Overlanding/camping were always part of who I am, but their importance in my life became far more apparent. I found myself camping a lot more. I found myself on more solo journeys. In many ways, overlanding saved my life. Trip planning gives focus. The day-dreaming of being out in nature soothes the soul, and the trips are like recharging a depleted battery...

I guess the point of this post is to acknowledge my fellow overlanding brothers and sisters who are forced to deal with this same diagnosis. Many of us (too many) silently deal with this every single day.

The secondary point of this post is to speak to our wonderful overlanding/off-roading friends and family; a request of sorts... If you come across a fellow overlander who might not be super talkative, or one who does not seem all that enthusiastic to open up....please take a moment and look at their entire rig and at their entire person:

Are they alone?
Are they maybe quieter than other OB members or overlanders you've met off grid or on trail?
Is there a service branch decal on their rig?
An EMS/Fire service cross?
A Blue Line decal?
Do they seem somewhat uneasy or awkward or maybe even nervous?
Are they possibly a bit more "alpha" and talking a bit more aggressively than other overlanders you've met?

If so, chances are you've met someone who struggles with the inner demons of PTSD. It affects everyone differently and presents its ugly face in a myriad of different ways. Some get quiet. Some get louder. Chances are- you are meeting them at a point where they are in true need of "escape" or alone time. Overlanding does this for me, and many others. It allows us to reset our hearts and minds. It might seem lonely, but for some of us- it's a HUGE step in getting out there and pushing ourselves. My advice? Give us a bit of room, please. We might not be as keen to camp right next to new-found friends. We might not immediately be comfortable sharing a camp meal with people we just met. We might be a little tight-lipped and apprehensive with you. We might constantly watch your hands. We might take a defensive stance (subconsciously) if we are approached unexpectedly while off grid. First off- do not take it personally!!! You've done NOTHING wrong. We are the ones sometimes with social issues. Just give us a bit more space. Look us in the eye and shake our hands. Don't write us off and look for the first exit- just give us a few. We love overlanding for the community/comradery just like you, it just might take us a bit longer to come around.

The point of this post isn't to look for kudos or to "celebrate" PTSD. It's a rather crappy diagnosis to deal with, but it's something that doesn't get discussed much. The point is to talk about something that is typically not discussed with others. As you can probably tell- the off-roading world has a huge number of warrior-minded individuals, many of which have served in some capacity or another. As such, there are a lot of us out there on the trails. I hope that openly discussing this can maybe shed some light on things and open a few eyes, maybe.

I am not a medical professional, by the way. I have no PhD in this. I am simply one of countless others whose life experiences have culminated into this disorder. And rather than hold silent, I would rather advocate for my brothers and sisters who suffer in their silence.

So many of us end up facing suicidal thoughts. And to those I say this: you are NOT broken. There ARE others who get it...who understand. This disorder does NOT define you.

To all: please remember these three digits: 988. Just like "911" 988 is a simple three digit national phone number you can use if you find yourself in those dark moments. Those moments where your mind replays those events over and over and over.... Don't be another statistic. You are MORE than that.

Sorry for the soapbox/rant, everyone. I just had this feeling that someone here needed to know that they are not alone.

God bless,
Chris
Thanks for sharing this. Education is paramount and folks need to understand the basics. I've lost a few very good friends to PTSD and I'm currently traveling with someone who has been diag'd and retired due to it. It's a struggle some days but continuous exposure our nations mountains, lakes, streams and oceans seems to soften the impact. For those reading this, take your blood pressure at the house, then beside your favorite lake. You'll love the difference.
Thanks again and FIY I'll be in Greer Crossing in Mark Twain for May and June.
Zim
 

Smokey_Bear_JLUR

Rank V
Launch Member

Explorer I

2,920
Oakville, MO, USA
First Name
Chris
Last Name
Kuhn
Member #

10810

Service Branch
LEO (Ret'd)
Thanks for sharing this. Education is paramount and folks need to understand the basics. I've lost a few very good friends to PTSD and I'm currently traveling with someone who has been diag'd and retired due to it. It's a struggle some days but continuous exposure our nations mountains, lakes, streams and oceans seems to soften the impact. For those reading this, take your blood pressure at the house, then beside your favorite lake. You'll love the difference.
Thanks again and FIY I'll be in Greer Crossing in Mark Twain for May and June.
Zim
I've been through Glade Top and spent a lot of time at SMORR, but haven't been through Greer Crossing. I love the topography of that region! I'm a couple hours away (just south of St. Louis). Shoot me a message when you're down there and would like to meet up. One of my personal goals this year is to network with more local overlanders. I also subscribed to your channel btw!
 

North American Sojourner

Rank VI
Member

Inventor I

3,886
Mid-Missouri, MO, USA
First Name
Dave
Last Name
Zimmer
Member #

30139

Service Branch
USN (ret)
I've been through Glade Top and spent a lot of time at SMORR, but haven't been through Greer Crossing. I love the topography of that region! I'm a couple hours away (just south of St. Louis). Shoot me a message when you're down there and would like to meet up. One of my personal goals this year is to network with more local overlanders. I also subscribed to your channel btw!
Appreciate that. Probably be a few weeks to get settled in down there. Have no idea how hard it will be to keep up with 19 campsites....LMAO
I'll send a PM when I get the low down from the Forest Service.
Thanks
Zim
 
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DintDobbs

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@Smokey_Bear_JLUR True words, my guy. This is much of what is wrong with this "me-first" generation. Trust me, I know the TYFYS crowd (live near a base), always whining because our company doesn't offer military discounts. Like sheesh, get over yourself...

Any way, my old boss taught me that one of the most important things in life is to take the time to do nothing. Just take a break and experience life as a human being on God's earth every so often. That will go a long way to keeping your sanity, regardless of how stressful or obnoxious your job (or life in general) is.

The needs are endless. If you try to solve everybody's problems, you'll only make your own life miserable. That's God's job, let him do it.
 
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KyleGrant

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Cheers Chris, thanks for taking the time to post this. When I initially got into 'overlanding', I didn't know what to call what I did. Growing up in Scouts much like Rob above, our monthly campouts and high-adventure trips were my escape from a not-so-ideal home life. That became my go-to escape and enjoyment. Growing up I became way more interested in packing up with my wife and just going out to adventure, being self-sufficient on the vehicle and having that freedom to go where we wanted and know wherever we stopped we were good to go for a day or so. Turns out there's a word for that.

I dealt with a concoction of issues which I wasn't self-aware enough to realize and finally at about the decade mark of public-safety, I broke. Hard. I was on-shift and just pacing in the bay, talking with a close old friend, boss and mentor from a previous job. Saying I wanted out of public-safety and to come back to work on communications equipment. At the time, I was looking for a quick fix. She brought me back to reality and helped my over-anxious brain to chill. I began having intrusive thoughts that were very atypical for me and it finally pushed me to seek help. To that point in my career I had hundreds of deaths and dozens of more traumatic calls which I hadn't ever fully digested. I've never been one to beat myself up about the outcome, I can typically tell myself "What happened, happened. We can't fix everything in minutes." although even then - some calls just plain suck ass. No two ways about it. In the last year alone our shift has had three pediatric deaths, our agency has experienced five significant pediatric deaths from drownings, shooting in the head, 6mo., 4yo, etc. It weighs heavy. In lieu of this, we've stepped up our mental health game as a department and have more aggressive debriefs to walk through calls and formally digest what's gone on. Doesn't change the fact at the end of the day a kid is gone, but it helps to understand the why sometimes.

Anyway, I don't want to go on a rant either but I'm glad to see there's a group of folks here engaged in a common activity and some campfire time. The longer I've spent in public-safety the more I realize how different I am and unrelatable to the general public. Almost without fail, it seems like if somebody finds out what I do it's immediately "Oh I bet you see some bad stuff, what's the worst you've seen?". Good to connect with others, MIL or public-safety; who understand and just 'get it'.

Hope to see you guys/gals out there. Thanks for what you do or have done, talk - whether you need to or not. I didn't realize my glass was getting full until it all spilled at once.

"There is no greater calling than to serve your fellow men. There is no greater contribution than to help the weak. There is no greater satisfaction than to have done it well."
- Walter Reuther
 

2WheelRob

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1,747
Austin, TX, USA
First Name
Rob
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Yarger
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31533

God, I hate that question. What's the worst you've seen. I'm actively trying to forget about it. What makes you think I want to talk about the worst thing I've ever seen? Because trust me, if I actually told you about it, you'd regret asking that question.
 
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