OverlandBound_Trolls / overlandbound_fake

[overland_w_cruisers]

I think I saw that movie. It didn't end well, if I recall correctly. Actually, that's how trails get closed... (seriously).

Learn to wheel, learn what to pack, learn what you need (and don't need, I think personally overlanders are way overloaded), try it out close to home, then hit the road... but do it safely, smart, and environmentally friendly...

I'm not talking about designated trails here and there. I'm talking about driving open country in any direction for at least 3 days without any regulation as to who's land i'm driving over. No laws, no people, no nothing but the wild, the sun, and the dirt underneath the tires.

This is safely achievable in Africa, Australia, South America. I live in the states and have a 4wd, but I will never modify it because I don't really feel the freedom of going into a designated permit only trail with a 10mph speed limit saying watch out for kids only to see a hoard of weekend warrios going around in a 1 mile loop doing the same thing taking selfies and making "welcome to overlanding" ft. Christopher Columbus videos.

Rohnny Dahl is my favorite and Andrew close second. Mike is optimistic, but you can't turn copper to gold. He was so happy in Brisbane. ExpeditionOverland and the rest here in NA are a sponsor sh*show. I wonder when people will realize their lifted Tundras and 40 inch BFG Jeeps wont make it halfway across the canning stock. It's a joke show what we have here. I'd only go overlanding in a real place, and by that I mean a place with thousands of miles of vast exploration, not for weekend trails. There's nothing wrong with weekend trails, but i think the lack of the freedom aspect is what is a big point type or activity.

I watch a lot of Mike's videos and none of them really get me to get out of my chair to do what he does and it's not to do with him (great guy), but I'd go in a heart beat to where Rohnny goes simply because of the vastness and low population density, if I lived there. Maybe it's just me but I could care less about moab and baja and would rather spend a entire week alone with a few friends in the kimberly. Just my view on it.

 

[clmautz]

Well, I understand - I'm an east coaster, there's just not many places to go here. There are, if you go to them. I just got back from a trip to AZ, where I rented a 2018 JLUR from Barlow Jeep, and hit the trails in Sedona. It was awesome! Next time I go, I'm taking my '16 JKU.

But, that's the beauty of it, it's your prerogative. Go big or go small, go expensive or go cheap, do as much or as little as you want. You don't have to go on mega trips to Mexico or Mojave Road, the local state park for the weekend might be just the ticket.

I tried to engage Overlandbound_fake in some discussion, but he blocked me after 15 minutes - typical. Oh well. Onward and upward!

Oh, and before you go dissing those stocker Jeeps, go watch Dan Grec and his Rubicon as he travels around Africa - 80k miles! And, it's a 3.8l v6 model! You'd be surprised where a stock vehicle (or near) will take you, minimally modified...

 

[overland_w_cruisers]

Well, I understand - I'm an east coaster, there's just not many places to go here. There are, if you go to them. I just got back from a trip to AZ, where I rented a 2018 JLUR from Barlow Jeep, and hit the trails in Sedona. It was awesome! Next time I go, I'm taking my '16 JKU.

But, that's the beauty of it, it's your prerogative. Go big or go small, go expensive or go cheap, do as much or as little as you want. You don't have to go on mega trips to Mexico or Mojave Road, the local state park for the weekend might be just the ticket.

I tried to engage Overlandbound_fake in some discussion, but he blocked me after 15 minutes - typical. Oh well. Onward and upward!

Oh, and before you go dissing those stocker Jeeps, go watch Dan Grec and his Rubicon as he travels around Africa - 80k miles! And, it's a 3.8l v6 model! You'd be surprised where a stock vehicle (or near) will take you, minimally modified...

Stock Jeep's and 4rumners will take me to places, but add payload, a boat, corrogations, and survival equipment and food supply, and the risk of breakdown increases.

I don't really care for as to if I drvie a Mercedez or a bike so as long as it doesn't break. The landcruiser 40, 60, 80, and now 70 is perfect for overlanding. They have V8 diesels for long range (sorry tundra), beam axles, dual factory lockers (sorry 4runner), high payload (sorry Jeep), and are the most reliable proven vehicles in the world (sorry Land Rover).

It's not a Toyota vs Jeep vs landrover vs Nissan battle, but when one car dominates the sales in harsh environments, there's something special about it, not the company imo and being brand loyal can be damaging.

Add the limitations of overlanding in the east coast and the overlanding theme dies here. West coast is different for sure, but i have yet to see a beach like the ones in Israelite bay here in Texas. I'm not taking account Cali into the equation as it's a lost cause. Florida is too since you can't drive on the beach like you can on fraser, noosa, etc. I just don't think the old regulation is any good for this kind of fun and it's better to leave to somewhere better. By the time they legalize 4wding on all public beaches here at normal speeds 20<40, we will be 80 years old.

 

[ScorpioVI]

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

https://www.drivingline.com/articles/do-it-for-the-gram-how-social-media-ruined-overlanding/

 

[soonersfan]

I see this place as a public forum for people to share ideas and information. I have no issue with the folks who make this forum available to all of us profiting from it as do the owners of just about every other forum out there. I've learned a lot from car forums, gun forums, etc. This one is no different.

I don't see why it is OB's responsibility to fight trail closings, that is not their mission. Local clubs who are familiar with local trails and can appeal to local officials are much better suited to do this. If members want to get information out on this forum about things happening in their area, I am sure it would be welcomed and even encouraged.

Blaming OB for the perceived problems that exists on public trails or assigning some level of obligation to them because they make a profit is laughable. If you don't like it, don't participate. If you're jealous of their success, then by all means obsess over it, whine about it and try to find a way to make what they've done here a bad thing in your mind. I wouldn't even know about the fake accounts and haters if I didn't see them mentioned here. They're welcome to their opinions and they don't bother me whatsoever.

 

[Anak]

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

https://www.drivingline.com/articles/do-it-for-the-gram-how-social-media-ruined-overlanding/

I saw that.

And I think it is very short-sighted.

Just think ahead ten years or so. There should be a fabulous supply of gently used trail vehicles and equipment on the secondary market. That sounds like a win to me.

 

[VisualUniverse]

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

https://www.drivingline.com/articles/do-it-for-the-gram-how-social-media-ruined-overlanding/

I just suffered through this article and noticed the reference to this community in the author's 'Social Media Kid' scenario:
"He joins communities of other overlanders and receives a special badge with a member number on it."

The author seems to draw upon his personal experience as the exact template for earning the rank of Overlander, and anyone who doesn't follow his hard-earned path is unworthy of being an Enthusiast, a Mechanic, an Off-roader, and of course...an Overlander.

The author's bashing is reminiscent of the themes on the multiple IG accounts dogging OB, as well as insulting specific Yota owners (by name) who also utilize IG in high frequency. The IG haters' obsession with attacking owners of commonly used gear (MaxTrax, fridge, LED lights, etc...) is a bit odd, since those items are widely used by even the most hard-core expedition travelers.

The author contradicts himself several times with his derogatory characterizations, for example...in his 'Social Media Kid' scenario, he states:

"He pays a shop to install all the latest and greatest parts on his new rig, and before long, he has a fully-built overland vehicle..."

In the next paragraph, he counters his own point with:

"While there's nothing inherently wrong with either of these beginnings..."

The following sweeping generalization assumes that anyone who builds up a new rig and posts photos on IG fits inside a well-defined box:

'These self-proclaimed “overlanders” largely do not come from enthusiast beginnings. They have no desire to do any major wrenching of their own nor do they truly try to learn the ins-and-outs of recovery and 'wheeling. Instead, they’ve found a way to buy-in to the community, with hopes of impressing the masses on social media with their fully-built overlanding rigs made for the purpose of fame and notoriety.'

Over the years, I've met lots of folk who built up a Toyota 4x4 with what appears to be aspirations of overlanding. As I meet them and talk, I find that some are not into the off-roading scene, rather they just enjoy camping at a state park and staying on paved roads. I don't see a reason to look down on anyone in this scenario. What I haven't found yet are the people who the author describes in his generalization: people who spend the money to build up a rig solely for the purpose of posting IG photos for IG attention. Seems everyone I've met is at least camping, but most are doing some form of adventurous travel in pursuit of unpaved paths.

In conclusion, I applaud anyone who buys a 4x4 from their mfr of choice and seeks to get away. This makes them an enthusiast with a sense of adventure.

 

[slomatt]

I found the article to be highly informative. For example, I didn't know that the members of Expedition Portal pioneered "overlanding" sometime around 2005 (back in the dawn of time). I'm not sure what we were doing before then, probably just offroading and camping because we didn't know any better.

It's the internet, everybody has an opinion and they don't always jive with our own. Let's get back to the "what do I need to start overlanding" posts...

 

[Road]

I don't see why it is OB's responsibility to fight trail closings, that is not their mission. Local clubs who are familiar with local trails and can appeal to local officials are much better suited to do this. If members want to get information out on this forum about things happening in their area, I am sure it would be welcomed and even encouraged.

I think it most definitely is OB's responsibility to fight trail closings and be concerned with land use issues. As for members wanting to get info out on this forum being welcomed and encouraged, it is already, very actively. Overland Bound intends to be an instrumental and effective force in helping members and others learn about how they too can make a difference.

Overland Bound provides member-driven information to both membership and public about organizations, advocacy groups, and team efforts that promote low-impact land use and responsible recreation. Members then get involved and active at local, regional, or national levels in the groups and efforts that most interest them and where they feel they can be most effective.

Overland Bound IS its members, it is US, not just @Michael and @Corrie at HQ, and they have made it clear that membership shapes how Overland Bound will continue to grow.

The Core Principles of Overland Bound include that A Connection To Nature Is Paramount, that you should Leave It Better Than You Found It, that there be No Barriers To Information, and that we Help Each Other and Engage In the Smallest Of Interactions.

These core principles and requests from members have encouraged the creation of the top-level forum Land Use - Leave It Better Than You Found It. This forum helps us live our core principles and be continually informed as to how we can help keep our lands available for responsible recreation. It includes three sub-forums at present:

Local Trail Cleanup Events - Trail Guardian
Local Land Use Information and News
Local, National, International Organizations



I believe as members of Overland Bound it is important to not only be involved in trail activities and organizations that promote low-impact use and responsible recreation, but to lead by example for both new members and the public.

Visit the The Land Use - Leave It Better Than You Found It forum, use it, learn from it, get involved in your group or effort of choice. It's part of who we are. It's what we do.

If you have any questions about the forum or three current sub-forums, or if there is anything else I can do for you, don't hesitate to ask.

As for the opinion piece linked to that revived this tired thread, it's just an opinion and he has a right to it. It's really not worth bashing or debating. If you'd like to start constructive dialog, though, that respects the right of others to have their own opinions, and that from discussing and understanding why others have the opinions they do a greater understanding for both parties may emerge, I'm all for it.

Dialog, not debate.


Road


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[soonersfan]

Overland Bound IS its members, it is US, not just @Michael and @Corrie at HQ

So this was kind of my point although I did a piss poor job of communicating it. I don't think Michael and Corrie have a unique responsibility to fight trail closings simply because they profit from an internet forum. We all have the responsibility, including them, but I don't see their responsibility as being greater or different than ours.

This is a great community and it is growing. However, someone in New York shouldn't be waiting on someone in California to step up and fight for the trails in New York. Instead of complaining about this site leading to the closing of trails the site could be used as an incredible tool to educate people in their local area on how to make a difference and make them aware of opportunities to get involved.

Unfortunately, I don't think the complaining is really about a belief that OB is irresponsible or out of legitimate concern for trail closings. If it was, those folks would recognize what an incredible tool OB could be for them and they would be here trying to make a difference. I think it's about elitism and jealousy and I don't think OB needs to justify itself.

I had the opportunity to visit with some folks in Arkansas this last week who are making a real difference in regard to getting trails open that have been closed. They've learned that many trails are closed because of ignorance on the part of government officials. Damage caused by natural causes is often blamed on people. Bureaucracy is also a major part of it. The only way to combat most of this is to have local involvement, dialogue and through building relationships with those who make the decisions to keep trails open or close them. I don't know that OB HQ could do anything to impact what is going on in Arkansas, nor do I see that as their obligation. However, as the folks in Arkansas work to establish a volunteer organization recognized by the forestry service, OB could be a great resource to educate and recruit.

 

[Road]

So this was kind of my point although I did a piss poor job of communicating it. I don't think Michael and Corrie have a unique responsibility to fight trail closings simply because they profit from an internet forum. We all have the responsibility, including them, but I don't see their responsibility as being greater or different than ours.

This is a great community and it is growing. However, someone in New York shouldn't be waiting on someone in California to step up and fight for the trails in New York. Instead of complaining about this site leading to the closing of trails the site could be used as an incredible tool to educate people in their local area on how to make a difference and make them aware of opportunities to get involved.

Unfortunately, I don't think the complaining is really about a belief that OB is irresponsible or out of legitimate concern for trail closings. If it was, those folks would recognize what an incredible tool OB could be for them and they would be here trying to make a difference. I think it's about elitism and jealousy and I don't think OB needs to justify itself.

I had the opportunity to visit with some folks in Arkansas this last week who are making a real difference in regard to getting trails open that have been closed. They've learned that many trails are closed because of ignorance on the part of government officials. Damage caused by natural causes is often blamed on people. Bureaucracy is also a major part of it. The only way to combat most of this is to have local involvement, dialogue and through building relationships with those who make the decisions to keep trails open or close them. I don't know that OB HQ could do anything to impact what is going on in Arkansas, nor do I see that as their obligation. However, as the folks in Arkansas work to establish a volunteer organization recognized by the forestry service, OB could be a great resource to educate and recruit.

Great reply, man, and I agree.

Check out some of the posts in the Land Use - Leave It Better Than You Found It section with its three sub-forums. Many of the organizations that are linked to from within some of the organizations there, or will be linked to in future, have gone through just what you're talking about with Arkansas; forming successful alliances that have been instrumental in educating legislature and public alike. Natural erosion and wind being the culprit in places, for example, but increase in air particulates blamed on bike riders and off-road vehicles,so folks think the place should be shut down to everyone. All sorts of similar stories.

I think OB will be an effective and instrumental force in helping educate both members and public about how they can be involved in various organizations and efforts that promote low-impact land use and responsible recreation.


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[cruiseroutfit]

...ExpeditionOverland and the rest here in NA are a sponsor sh*show. I wonder when people will realize their lifted Tundras and 40 inch BFG Jeeps wont make it halfway across the canning stock. It's a joke show what we have here. I'd only go overlanding in a real place, and by that I mean a place with thousands of miles of vast exploration, not for weekend trails. There's nothing wrong with weekend trails, but i think the lack of the freedom aspect is what is a big point type or activity

And do tell why a lifted Tundra won't make it across the Canning Stock Route?

Perhaps I'm a bit biased (XOverland team member) but having driven the CSR self-supported with the Expeditions7 team as opthe first group of the season (i.e. still wet), I have zero doubts a Tundra could complete the trail pending the ability to haul enough fuel. Even in the diesel Land Cruisers we were driving we had to haul approx 200 gallons in the truck I drove to fuel the 3 rigs, gasoline would be no more or less difficult just a slightly higher volume imo.

XO has now completed the Pan-American Highway including one of the most remote border crossings in the world, seeing just a few dozen vehicles per year. I'd call that overlanding ;)

 

[Kevin108]

And do tell why a lifted Tundra won't make it across the Canning Stock Route?

From what I gathered, it was because it only holds 26 gallons of fuel and averages 17 mpg when not off-road.

It's a struggle I have with my FJ. 15 city, 18 highway, and about 8 on the trail with a full load and running in low range. The 19 gallon tank really doesn't go far. My 1987 Chevy pickup had dual 20-gallon tanks. I dream of the range I could get with that setup on the FJ.

Andrew St. Pierre White recently commented on this limitation on the American market. We only seem to get high-displacement gasoline engines and, because of the ready availability of fuel in most places, the average buyer doesn't bat an eye at buying something with a tiny tank. Perversely, non-car people are happy about this. "It only costs $xx to fill up!"

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Add a long-range tank (which we did to the Land Cruiser I was driving) and haul the same amount of fuel I hauled in my E7 LC and the Tundra would have no problem.

It's only a limitation if you are eager to create an invisible roadblock. One of the gents I do a bunch of travel in the western US/Mexico rocks a Tundra with a 46 gallon Titan fuel tank. Add a single 55 gallon drum in the back or a combo or mini-drums and you'de have enough particularly with a Kunawarritji refuel.

Long Range tanks are available for most of the popular US model "overland" rigs. Eliminate road blocks. If one is planning to ship a Tundra to Australia and plans to conquer the CSR, a long range tank is the least of their problems ;)

 

[Justinwrites]

I'm just going to chime in about local 4 wheeler clubs. I've looked into several. My experience suggests that many, if not most, are Jeep exclusive, or uber macho. I'm not a car guy by nature. I'm not a gun guy. I'm not a hunter. I'm a hippie farmer from Kansas who was raised by his mom. I like the all-comers attitude of OB. I like that it takes all kinds. I'm awfully disappointed we're spending time on this need to define, label, isolate, and tribalize the love of the outdoors.

 

[Kevin108]

Add a long-range tank (which we did to the Land Cruiser I was driving) and haul the same amount of fuel I hauled in my E7 LC and the Tundra would have no problem.

It's only a limitation if you are eager to create an invisible roadblock. One of the gents I do a bunch of travel in the western US/Mexico rocks a Tundra with a 46 gallon Titan fuel tank. Add a single 55 gallon drum in the back or a combo or mini-drums and you'de have enough particularly with a Kunawarritji refuel.

Long Range tanks are available for most of the popular US model "overland" rigs. Eliminate road blocks. If one is planning to ship a Tundra to Australia and plans to conquer the CSR, a long range tank is the least of their problems ;)

No doubt, at this period in time, you can typically find whatever you need from the aftermarket if you can justify the need and have the coin. Whatever isn't available at present, you can certainly find a fabricator for. Simple-to-use CAD software is rapidly approaching ubiquity and allows for far more rapid development of custom pieces than previous generations of "us" experienced.

For the FJ, I want something like a bracket kit that reuses a tank from a K5 Blazer or something, for which you have to wire your own fuel pump and bend your own lines. Yes, the Manafre kits are out there, but they are not priced for those pursuing this h̶o̶b̶b̶y̶ lifestyle at my level. A plastic or stamped steel tank would work for me. I don't need aerospace quality (or expense) for my simple trips. For now, I picked up a $150 bracket for that back door that holds a steel jerry can and holder. Cheap, sturdy, and increases my fuel capacity by 26%. For the price, those results can't be beat.

 

[Dunkel]

I am 52 year old OB member #3457. I have been exploring by vehicle since I was sixteen and tearing apart automobiles since before I had driver's license. I'm a ASE certified auto mechanic, has had history working as an auto tech for Toyota and attended two years of Toyota University to become a mechanic for Toyota. I've owned both Jeep and Toyota and started my off road portion of my exploring from the seat of a 2wd Toyota pick - up. I have explored extensively from the desserts of Southern California to the far reaches of Baja California.

I want to start by saying thank you to Michael for being so professional about his interaction with his guest. As he already knows, discussion such as this is what leads to progress and growth.

Over the years, I have used the internet as a tool to develop my exploration. I chose to join and become involved with Overland Bound because of the inclusiveness of their core values; particularly with reference to "its not what you drive". Is that to say that all vehicles have the same capabilities; of course not. Does that mean that someone is unable enjoy the our doors with a 2wd and country back roads? Of course not. The first few years of exploring Baja Mexico was with 2wd, home made sand ladders & a high lift jack. Learned alot.

My concern with the subjects discussed today was with the comment regarding "gentrification". This hints to an exclusive way of thinking; exactly why I chose not to become involved with other "off-roading" groups. Not only is it discriminatory in it's approach but it is also suggests a aversion to certain class distinctions.

Many comments where made during the video discussion but I also found the idea that one needed to learn on their own to earn their right at the Overlanding table. I see nothing wrong with education, collaboration and group driven activities; especially for beginners. I know times are changing but does anybody remember the subject of mentor-ship? It is exactly that structure that develops responsible behavior and growth.

In the end, it looked like the discussion took a turn for the better and much of the guests frustration and fears were expressed but in the end, I will not support an "us versus them" culture and actively try to lay bellow the radar to try to stop progress. I display the OB badge not as a outward expression of ego but as a message to others that I am for inclusion and developing "what you came with" to their fullest potential.

Thanks you again Corrie & Michael; good job.

Cottonwoody, so new to this forum and its use. I was searching under "Baja Mexico" and was brought to this particular thread. I see in your, most appropriate response, that you have spent a good deal of time along the Baja. My wife and I are planning on starting a 3 month trek around the Baja in January 2019. I am with little knowledge of the Baja, and have some simple questions like; What are some off the grid must see points? What are some great "on the grid" cultural places/towns to enjoy? What would you do if you had 3 months along the Baja?

 

[icant4x4heretoo]

Im late to this BUT I ran into him on IG. I see that he is selling patches with @micheal face on it. Id say that he need to get sent a cease and decease letter

https://grilledtees.bigcartel.com/product/overlandbound_fake-cal4wheel-fundraising-patch