You’re really into the law threats aren’t you? I never accused anyone of any crime, you keep doing that for some reason but I’m just chatting on a forum with a person who is more than willing to participate. I explained clearly that I was voicing my opinion. Is it illegal to voice my opinion and tell about my personal experiences on the subject? I knew I should’ve saved some of that used tp for dna evidence...
OverlandBound_Trolls / overlandbound_fake
- Thread starter ELY-9999
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I’m saddened by all the shit getting thrown around here.
_fake didn’t come across very well, imho he just seemed like someone pissed at the world for changing, and chose these guys as his axe to grind.
I’ve been overlanding since long before anyone used that term. We called it rallying where I grew up and I’ve seen a lot of changes to the hobby since then. (‘75)
The biggest positive that I see coming from a dedicated and dynamic site and enthusiast group like this is the ability to unite against the many forces who want people off the land and out of the parks/forests etc. It can be local councils, the Sierra Club, resident associations, mining, logging or development, but creating large coordinated groups of connected people who love the land, and exploring it in an off road vehicle, gives us the ability to stand together to preserve what we love.
I don’t believe this (overlanding) is any more of a fad than surfing. There’s a lot of angry old surfers bemoaning the crowding out of their local spots, but there’s also many more voices to protect the sea.
United we should stand, but alas America’s political Punch & Judy show has sewn the seeds of division deep into the national psyche because their business is to divide and conquer. Don’t fall for it.
Sent from my iPhone using OB Talk
_fake didn’t come across very well, imho he just seemed like someone pissed at the world for changing, and chose these guys as his axe to grind.
I’ve been overlanding since long before anyone used that term. We called it rallying where I grew up and I’ve seen a lot of changes to the hobby since then. (‘75)
The biggest positive that I see coming from a dedicated and dynamic site and enthusiast group like this is the ability to unite against the many forces who want people off the land and out of the parks/forests etc. It can be local councils, the Sierra Club, resident associations, mining, logging or development, but creating large coordinated groups of connected people who love the land, and exploring it in an off road vehicle, gives us the ability to stand together to preserve what we love.
I don’t believe this (overlanding) is any more of a fad than surfing. There’s a lot of angry old surfers bemoaning the crowding out of their local spots, but there’s also many more voices to protect the sea.
United we should stand, but alas America’s political Punch & Judy show has sewn the seeds of division deep into the national psyche because their business is to divide and conquer. Don’t fall for it.
Sent from my iPhone using OB Talk
I dont agree is fakes arguments, people dont get misguided and lured into this hobby.
As for new people explorering this hobby, joining such a club as OB, where they can be coached by peers to be responsible and safe, rather than rushing out and damaging trails, equipment and being unsafe. Also, more *organised* people in the hobby mean there can be more advocates for trails staying open and groups to repair trails and facilities. Fake seem very selfish (and elitist himself) and want to the tracks for himself; and as a newbie myself Im insulted that he thinks us newbies arent learning or participating and doing it the hard way and just getting the hobby handed to me on a plate. He thinks (incorrectly) people are shitting on his hobby, so he retaliates by shitting on other peoples hobby.
As for new people explorering this hobby, joining such a club as OB, where they can be coached by peers to be responsible and safe, rather than rushing out and damaging trails, equipment and being unsafe. Also, more *organised* people in the hobby mean there can be more advocates for trails staying open and groups to repair trails and facilities. Fake seem very selfish (and elitist himself) and want to the tracks for himself; and as a newbie myself Im insulted that he thinks us newbies arent learning or participating and doing it the hard way and just getting the hobby handed to me on a plate. He thinks (incorrectly) people are shitting on his hobby, so he retaliates by shitting on other peoples hobby.
Member I
I hope this complies, my son invited me to a forum he belongs to. I obliged him & signed on. I notice it was a tent trailer forum so I cruz'd threw the site & noticed that most of the members are asphalt public \ private camp site campers. My son & his family have a older Jayco Tent Trailer that we lifted & made some offroad modifications to it, taller tires, shock kit, beefed up the framing.
Like I said I signed on as a member posted my overland trailer on the site & you would think I open the gates of hell upon myself. The word "Overlanding" just sent some of them members in a total frenzy. So I defined the word Overlanding it's meaning "travel to remote destinations". Whether some one doesn't understand the meaning or purpose why overlanders do what they do, or were some let overlanding go to their head is nothing but ignorance in their part. The wife & I are fairly new to Overlanding but not to disperse camping. We've always dispersed camped, & in some real remote secluded areas just like a few days ago we got back from a dispersed camping trip 20 miles in the National forest & 19 miles in off the main dirt road. Haters will hate, imposters will always be fakes & we have those people who think they are the know it all's of every thing, otherwise a legend in their own mind. The world is filled with these types & they occupy every type of forum there is as well as social network sites. I pay NO mind to these types & will not give them my time of the day or feed back they seek. Some one mention the word "trolls" yes, they are trolls. By the way I deleted my account from the tent trailer forum & my son as well.
Like I said I signed on as a member posted my overland trailer on the site & you would think I open the gates of hell upon myself. The word "Overlanding" just sent some of them members in a total frenzy. So I defined the word Overlanding it's meaning "travel to remote destinations". Whether some one doesn't understand the meaning or purpose why overlanders do what they do, or were some let overlanding go to their head is nothing but ignorance in their part. The wife & I are fairly new to Overlanding but not to disperse camping. We've always dispersed camped, & in some real remote secluded areas just like a few days ago we got back from a dispersed camping trip 20 miles in the National forest & 19 miles in off the main dirt road. Haters will hate, imposters will always be fakes & we have those people who think they are the know it all's of every thing, otherwise a legend in their own mind. The world is filled with these types & they occupy every type of forum there is as well as social network sites. I pay NO mind to these types & will not give them my time of the day or feed back they seek. Some one mention the word "trolls" yes, they are trolls. By the way I deleted my account from the tent trailer forum & my son as well.
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Influencer II
I am 52 year old OB member #3457. I have been exploring by vehicle since I was sixteen and tearing apart automobiles since before I had driver's license. I'm a ASE certified auto mechanic, has had history working as an auto tech for Toyota and attended two years of Toyota University to become a mechanic for Toyota. I've owned both Jeep and Toyota and started my off road portion of my exploring from the seat of a 2wd Toyota pick - up. I have explored extensively from the desserts of Southern California to the far reaches of Baja California.
I want to start by saying thank you to Michael for being so professional about his interaction with his guest. As he already knows, discussion such as this is what leads to progress and growth.
Over the years, I have used the internet as a tool to develop my exploration. I chose to join and become involved with Overland Bound because of the inclusiveness of their core values; particularly with reference to "its not what you drive". Is that to say that all vehicles have the same capabilities; of course not. Does that mean that someone is unable enjoy the our doors with a 2wd and country back roads? Of course not. The first few years of exploring Baja Mexico was with 2wd, home made sand ladders & a high lift jack. Learned alot.
My concern with the subjects discussed today was with the comment regarding "gentrification". This hints to an exclusive way of thinking; exactly why I chose not to become involved with other "off-roading" groups. Not only is it discriminatory in it's approach but it is also suggests a aversion to certain class distinctions.
Many comments where made during the video discussion but I also found the idea that one needed to learn on their own to earn their right at the Overlanding table. I see nothing wrong with education, collaboration and group driven activities; especially for beginners. I know times are changing but does anybody remember the subject of mentor-ship? It is exactly that structure that develops responsible behavior and growth.
In the end, it looked like the discussion took a turn for the better and much of the guests frustration and fears were expressed but in the end, I will not support an "us versus them" culture and actively try to lay bellow the radar to try to stop progress. I display the OB badge not as a outward expression of ego but as a message to others that I am for inclusion and developing "what you came with" to their fullest potential.
Thanks you again Corrie & Michael; good job.
I want to start by saying thank you to Michael for being so professional about his interaction with his guest. As he already knows, discussion such as this is what leads to progress and growth.
Over the years, I have used the internet as a tool to develop my exploration. I chose to join and become involved with Overland Bound because of the inclusiveness of their core values; particularly with reference to "its not what you drive". Is that to say that all vehicles have the same capabilities; of course not. Does that mean that someone is unable enjoy the our doors with a 2wd and country back roads? Of course not. The first few years of exploring Baja Mexico was with 2wd, home made sand ladders & a high lift jack. Learned alot.
My concern with the subjects discussed today was with the comment regarding "gentrification". This hints to an exclusive way of thinking; exactly why I chose not to become involved with other "off-roading" groups. Not only is it discriminatory in it's approach but it is also suggests a aversion to certain class distinctions.
Many comments where made during the video discussion but I also found the idea that one needed to learn on their own to earn their right at the Overlanding table. I see nothing wrong with education, collaboration and group driven activities; especially for beginners. I know times are changing but does anybody remember the subject of mentor-ship? It is exactly that structure that develops responsible behavior and growth.
In the end, it looked like the discussion took a turn for the better and much of the guests frustration and fears were expressed but in the end, I will not support an "us versus them" culture and actively try to lay bellow the radar to try to stop progress. I display the OB badge not as a outward expression of ego but as a message to others that I am for inclusion and developing "what you came with" to their fullest potential.
Thanks you again Corrie & Michael; good job.
Enthusiast I
Wow, people are different. Why do some think they are more deserving or important than others? Everyone is green at one point.
Thank you Corrie and Michael for taking the high road.
I kind of see this community and the boating community in the same type of situation and it reminded me of a boat ramp incident that I witnessed and then became part of. I went to go boating one week day and backed into a public boat ramp behind a women and her 2 daughters trying to put 2 personal watercraft in the water. It was obvious that the boats were brand new and this was most likely the 1st time they were attempting to go without dad. There was a fisherman with a fairly large boat his wife and son waiting to pull his boat from the water. He was not very happy that the family was struggling and they were in his way. He started make loud rude comments to his wife and son about why they were taking so long. Being the nice guy that I am I stepped in and help the women get her boats into the water and out of his way. He made some statement as he passed the women about if she didn't know what she was doing she should stay home. I told him he was rude and that everyone has to learn somewhere. He proceeded to get his truck and backed his trailer into the water. He struggled to get the boat lined up and made several attempts. Once he finally got it lined up he tried to jump down out of the boat missed the trailer rail slipped and fell in the water. After that he hooked up his electric winch and started to pull the boat out. The winch pulled the boat about a foot and made a loud noise and broke. He fought it for about a half hour hand cranking his heavy boat onto the trailer. I walk back and forth trying to look as impatient as he had been the whole time giggling. I really wasn't in a hurry but, he didn't know that. Finally when he was all loaded up. I told his wife you know if he doesn't know what he is doing maybe he should stay home.
Carma is a bitch!!
A public whatever is just that a PUBLIC WHATEVER!!!!!!
They are everyone's trails and everyone's waterways.
Also, I love my OB badge and my Tembo-Tusk.
Thank you again for all that you do Corrie & Micheal. I surely wouldn't put up with the crap you two do.
Thank you Corrie and Michael for taking the high road.
I kind of see this community and the boating community in the same type of situation and it reminded me of a boat ramp incident that I witnessed and then became part of. I went to go boating one week day and backed into a public boat ramp behind a women and her 2 daughters trying to put 2 personal watercraft in the water. It was obvious that the boats were brand new and this was most likely the 1st time they were attempting to go without dad. There was a fisherman with a fairly large boat his wife and son waiting to pull his boat from the water. He was not very happy that the family was struggling and they were in his way. He started make loud rude comments to his wife and son about why they were taking so long. Being the nice guy that I am I stepped in and help the women get her boats into the water and out of his way. He made some statement as he passed the women about if she didn't know what she was doing she should stay home. I told him he was rude and that everyone has to learn somewhere. He proceeded to get his truck and backed his trailer into the water. He struggled to get the boat lined up and made several attempts. Once he finally got it lined up he tried to jump down out of the boat missed the trailer rail slipped and fell in the water. After that he hooked up his electric winch and started to pull the boat out. The winch pulled the boat about a foot and made a loud noise and broke. He fought it for about a half hour hand cranking his heavy boat onto the trailer. I walk back and forth trying to look as impatient as he had been the whole time giggling. I really wasn't in a hurry but, he didn't know that. Finally when he was all loaded up. I told his wife you know if he doesn't know what he is doing maybe he should stay home.
Carma is a bitch!!
A public whatever is just that a PUBLIC WHATEVER!!!!!!
They are everyone's trails and everyone's waterways.
Also, I love my OB badge and my Tembo-Tusk.
Thank you again for all that you do Corrie & Micheal. I surely wouldn't put up with the crap you two do.
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Pioneer II
I just see a lot of similar arguments when snowboarders starting hitting the ski slopes. Old-School felt the New-School was going to ruin everything for everyone. Tear up the trees around the slopes, get things shut down, etc, etc. The sport evolved, just like Overlanding will.
Starting up a '_fake' IG or whatever, legitimizes OB way more than the badges does...every successful venture has detractors. Just means OB is succeeding.
This sport (or whatever you want to call it) sure has come a long way since we cut a couple windows in the snowmobile trailer cover and called it our camper...
Starting up a '_fake' IG or whatever, legitimizes OB way more than the badges does...every successful venture has detractors. Just means OB is succeeding.
This sport (or whatever you want to call it) sure has come a long way since we cut a couple windows in the snowmobile trailer cover and called it our camper...
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Contributor III
The guy has a point you know. There's no point in hopping on the me-too bandwagon when it's much longer than the support for his claims.
I dont agree with either OB or OB Fake because the primary target group here is the US. The US is very different then the rest of the world in overlanding because you need many special permits often and need to follow designated trails due to the private and federal ownership of land.
You go to Africa or even Australia and you can drive in any direction at any time and do basically whatever you want without much intervention because of the population density difference. The US has many cities and towns spread apart and has this private view of public land. Combine that with 15x the national population and probably 50x the regional population and 2x cheaper vehicles and a 1.3x stronger dollar and you have many people going everywhere asking for trail limitations.
The fact is that if OB disappears, it wont affect the exponential growth of overlanding in US, but the same goes to say if OB exists, it wont affect areas with low population density like Africa or Australia, which are the original overlanding communities. This isn't an overlanding problem, but rather a combination of population density and federal or state law.
It's funny to see that the states overlanders have designated trails to go off roading and can face penalties for beaching 'rules'.
I'll give you an example. Most of the beaches in US have 5 - 15mph speed limit. Fraser Island has 50mph speed limit (80 kmph) and Africa, well, you can go as far as your odometer reads. The laws most likely have to due with the expectation of other drivers or people on the beach, but there you go. The nation with the highest population has the most stringent laws, as expected.
I dont think removing OB will be the solution and I dont think keeping OB will be a problem. The problem is already here and will increase so as long as we stay here. If you want a real overlanding experience, head to Australia. If you can afford to risk your life, head to South America. If trail access is still an issue, head to the congo of Africa.
Let's get real. Overlanding in the US isn't ever going to be anywhere as near as good as what it is everywhere else (except EU & UK & Syria & NK), so props to Mike for keeping his head positive despite the fact that the odds are against us all here.
Don't believe me? We don't even get light duty turbo diesels on toyotas or most jeeps here that are essential to overlanding. Range is second to tires for overlanding, and we dont have it. This isn't the place for overlanding and is the place for weekend warrior off roading instead. I am open to discussion with you guys, but dont bash or support neither side without having an open view and seeing what the experts in overlanding have already done.
I dont agree with either OB or OB Fake because the primary target group here is the US. The US is very different then the rest of the world in overlanding because you need many special permits often and need to follow designated trails due to the private and federal ownership of land.
You go to Africa or even Australia and you can drive in any direction at any time and do basically whatever you want without much intervention because of the population density difference. The US has many cities and towns spread apart and has this private view of public land. Combine that with 15x the national population and probably 50x the regional population and 2x cheaper vehicles and a 1.3x stronger dollar and you have many people going everywhere asking for trail limitations.
The fact is that if OB disappears, it wont affect the exponential growth of overlanding in US, but the same goes to say if OB exists, it wont affect areas with low population density like Africa or Australia, which are the original overlanding communities. This isn't an overlanding problem, but rather a combination of population density and federal or state law.
It's funny to see that the states overlanders have designated trails to go off roading and can face penalties for beaching 'rules'.
I'll give you an example. Most of the beaches in US have 5 - 15mph speed limit. Fraser Island has 50mph speed limit (80 kmph) and Africa, well, you can go as far as your odometer reads. The laws most likely have to due with the expectation of other drivers or people on the beach, but there you go. The nation with the highest population has the most stringent laws, as expected.
I dont think removing OB will be the solution and I dont think keeping OB will be a problem. The problem is already here and will increase so as long as we stay here. If you want a real overlanding experience, head to Australia. If you can afford to risk your life, head to South America. If trail access is still an issue, head to the congo of Africa.
Let's get real. Overlanding in the US isn't ever going to be anywhere as near as good as what it is everywhere else (except EU & UK & Syria & NK), so props to Mike for keeping his head positive despite the fact that the odds are against us all here.
Don't believe me? We don't even get light duty turbo diesels on toyotas or most jeeps here that are essential to overlanding. Range is second to tires for overlanding, and we dont have it. This isn't the place for overlanding and is the place for weekend warrior off roading instead. I am open to discussion with you guys, but dont bash or support neither side without having an open view and seeing what the experts in overlanding have already done.
This community is strong. Our ethos is noble and validated. I don't think anything that fake idiot said, posted, commented, or otherwise has an impact on any of us or what we do. He's essentially irrelevant and his arguments have no merit. I didn't know about this fake guy until Michael posted the video. After watching the video, it was a waste of time. I'm completely unaffected by the artificial drama and will continue doing what I do with or without OB members. I camp, I do some bushcraft, and overland when I can. That fake guy can GTFO of here with his unnecessary hatred toward OB and the emerging overland industry in the US.
Trail Blazer III
He is a sad and angry individual who can’t converse without insults. If you’ve got some haters it means you’re likely doing something right. I looked at his memes then unfollowed him after a few days, I didn’t find them funny or entertaining.
I watched the whole thing and was surprised at how civilly it went. Michael did well at failing to take the bait at multiple instances. He stayed calm and in good humor, and was clearly the more mature half of the discussion.
If I was Michael, I'd have my lawyer send a cease and desist letter to the fake on the grounds of trademark violation. A parody or meme account is a fine thing, but get your own name.
Regarding the fake's content, yes, there are members here who ask silly questions and do silly things. Just today I saw a photo of a member airing down to drive a few miles on a gravel road. I chuckle when such things are pointed out.
As for me, I'm a silly person myself, who does silly things. I don't take it personally when someone calls me on it.
If I was Michael, I'd have my lawyer send a cease and desist letter to the fake on the grounds of trademark violation. A parody or meme account is a fine thing, but get your own name.
Regarding the fake's content, yes, there are members here who ask silly questions and do silly things. Just today I saw a photo of a member airing down to drive a few miles on a gravel road. I chuckle when such things are pointed out.
As for me, I'm a silly person myself, who does silly things. I don't take it personally when someone calls me on it.
Wow, I don't know how or why I found and managed to make it through the entire video but it's late, I'm awake and wandering all ends of the internet. It's sad to see just how much animosity there is towards the overland segment as a whole in the last few years at an alarmingly increasing rate, this video highlights that.
I was admittedly dismayed by Michaels comments when asked about redefining "overlanding" (around 20 min mark)
"When we started in 2010 overlanding didn't exist"
Seconds later he goes on to say it was not only defined but in fact "over defined" Is there such a thing if one is in fact bringing yet another new definition to the table?
He does tip his hat to Overland Journal, but even that was predated be half a decade by the Expedition Portal forum where ironically the definition and ensuring conversation on "what is overlanding" was already old hat by 2010, the word was getting tossed around in ever conversation alongside it's older brother "expedition". The forum has nearly 20,000 members in 2010 fwiw, it has 171k now. Does anyone know how many members at large the OB forum has?
Let me be clear, I'm not saying there is only room for one forum, club, group, etc... quite the opposite, I think there needs to be more. I myself helped kick off a Utah specific/based overlanding forum in 2009. My point is simply give credit where credit is due, from an offroad industry aspect (think SEMA and other global media aspects), Overlamd Journal, Expedition Portal and Overland Expo put this entire market place on the map a decade ago... all that despite the fact everyone agrees it existed long before the name in the US.
I was admittedly dismayed by Michaels comments when asked about redefining "overlanding" (around 20 min mark)
"When we started in 2010 overlanding didn't exist"
Seconds later he goes on to say it was not only defined but in fact "over defined" Is there such a thing if one is in fact bringing yet another new definition to the table?
He does tip his hat to Overland Journal, but even that was predated be half a decade by the Expedition Portal forum where ironically the definition and ensuring conversation on "what is overlanding" was already old hat by 2010, the word was getting tossed around in ever conversation alongside it's older brother "expedition". The forum has nearly 20,000 members in 2010 fwiw, it has 171k now. Does anyone know how many members at large the OB forum has?
Let me be clear, I'm not saying there is only room for one forum, club, group, etc... quite the opposite, I think there needs to be more. I myself helped kick off a Utah specific/based overlanding forum in 2009. My point is simply give credit where credit is due, from an offroad industry aspect (think SEMA and other global media aspects), Overlamd Journal, Expedition Portal and Overland Expo put this entire market place on the map a decade ago... all that despite the fact everyone agrees it existed long before the name in the US.
I'm just happy this is getting away from the "Poop" topic...
Influencer II
Let me preface this by saying I know Michael and Corrie on a fairly personal level and have the benefit of talking to them on a regular basis, so it's easier for me to understand hidden context in what Michael is saying.
I am fairly certain that when Michael said "When we started in 2010 overlanding didn't exist" he was not eluding to the notion that he created it or brought it to the US or any of that. His comments are typically the contrary. This, to me, seems way more like a, "When we started overlanding wasn't mainstream like it is now." Poor choice of words, and when he was called out on it he corrected himself. There are a lot of organizations and forums that influence the growth of the overlanding community at large.
Side note:
The position of Overland Bound, at least to my knowledge, isn't to recruit people into overlanding. It's to offer a safe place for people already interested to ask questions and be educated by the community. I think that is where overlandbound_fake is misunderstanding overland bound's mission. I was really hoping Michael would touch on that point but the conversation never really seemed to navigate in that direction. I was part of most of the other forums including the main, popular ones, and trying to get into overlanding was actually kind of hard. I was flamed regularly for asking questions. And it's not that I was a complete newb. I was switching from two wheels to 4 wheels. I have a great deal of experience overlanding on a bike. And I was met with a lot of trash talk and hostility. Overland Bound seeks to nix that elitism that a lot of folks run into and I think that is why a lot of the member base is green. To overlandbound_fakes, point, there is a lot of green in the member base. But there is also a lot of experience, and let's face it, we all started from nothing at one point. And whether one was mentored or figured it out on their own, we all made mistakes. The forums, no matter which one you prefer, are important to the community for spreading information. Some are more established than others. Some are finding ways to sustain themselves, and some are trying to innovate the ways we are able to supply and consume that information. Like em or not they serve, at their core, to educate, spread information, and connect people who call themselves overlanders. And I think what overlandbound_fake is missing, is that even if he somehow succeeded in getting rid of Overland Bound (not gonna happen) The issues he is afraid of still exist, they existed before OB and they will exist long into the future. Nobody is born with the knowledge. His unwillingness to work with all the communities who recreate on public lands (think, hikers, bikers, hunters, fishermen, etc...) is telling of his position (they are my trails and I don't want anyone else on them). Public land is public land. If we are unwilling to work together to keep them clean, safe and accessible we can kiss them goodbye. That is accomplished by education. Refuse to educate those who are going to use the land is failure to keep the land clean, safe and accessible. Just my two cents. Did not intend my side note to become that lengthy.
The primary reason I registered with OB was because it seemed like a well reasoned group of people who acted more mature then many of the other offroading/camping forums, people who would be interested in working to keep trails open. One of my early posts was suggesting starting a land use sub-forum so that people could be aware of access issues and at risk trails, but unfortunately that never went anywhere.
As much as I like OB, this is my main concern about the site... on any given day if you look at the list of new posts the vast majority are about mods and gear. I can't think of the last time there was a discussion about access or at risk trails, or suggestions on how to donate to the groups that are fighting these legal battles on our behalf. When I first started "overlanding" 20 years ago I also wasn't aware of these issues, but they are real and access is at risk across the country.
One of the stated goals of OB is education, and in my mind it is far more important that people are first educated about proper trail use and access issues than it is for them to read about "what you need to carry on your trip". The OB community is a good group and could be a strong voice for outdoor recreation and protecting access, I just wish there was more interest in that subject.
the whole point of overlanding is to be off the grid. by putting yourselves in this forum, you are doing yourself a disservice. the best thing to do is to get a real truck, like a 79 series and drive 3 days into the wilderness with a buddy or two.
there is no point in going on designated trails, especially those that have people within 100 miles in radius.
there is no point in going on designated trails, especially those that have people within 100 miles in radius.
Off-Road Ranger I
Why not do both? Join a local club, AND join OB? Help steer OB toward "Tread Lightly" and other pro-4x4 activist groups, so we work together (not that OB isn't, but we all could be MORE environmentally better/aware, Michael even says this on the video).
One thing that I DO know, local clubs tend to be Elitist - we have a Toyota Club, a Jeep club, a LR club... if you don't have one, how can you be in *that* club... OB is one club where it doesn't matter what you drive. I love that about it. I'm in a local Jeep club, local Overland club (state wide), Tread Lightly, AND OB. OB is my favorite.... I *do* more w/ my local club, because they're local/convenient, but would like to get OB'ers more involved w/ local and state/regional trail issues, cleanups, etc..
Are you saying OB isn't a real 4x4 club? Seems like OB is - to me.
Don't like big 4x4 trail rides? Go alone, or do mini groups (3-4 rigs). This is what I do on my motorcycle, can't stand riding in 50-100 'packs'... same w/ the Jeep.
Can't we all just get along??
Off-Road Ranger I
Get Michael and Corrie to 'put it on the roadmap'... (such IT speak haha) - a land-use sub-forum. Also, affiliations w/ Tread Lightly, and/or links to their site (and others) would be good...
Off-Road Ranger I
I think I saw that movie. It didn't end well, if I recall correctly. Actually, that's how trails get closed... (seriously).
Learn to wheel, learn what to pack, learn what you need (and don't need, I think personally overlanders are way overloaded), try it out close to home, then hit the road... but do it safely, smart, and environmentally friendly...
