Off Grid Mesh Network

[er waddell]

Any plan or thoughts on adding some off grid (out of cell range) location tracking feature to the app. A mobile mesh network.

Allowing group location status on the map, and sending messages without cell service.

Something along the lines of a Gotenna $100, or an open source LoRa device like TTGO T-Beam. $30. I lean towards the T-Beam.

I know some people use aprs with their radios, but a cheap piece of hardware that everyone can afford and use with the app would be a neat feature.

An offroad Team Awarenes Kit.

GarthVH | Etsy
Meshtastic
Meshtastic Mesh Networking Project Combines ESP32, LoRa and GPS Radio - CNX Software (cnx-software.com)
Meshtastic Mesh Network – Wyoming Survival (wordpress.com)
Text & GPS on your phone without cell, wifi, or satellite. (gotennamesh.com)

 

[Ahoward2k]

Another option would be to tie in to your radio and use APRS.

 

[er waddell]

Another option would be to tie in to your radio and use APRS.

True. I mentioned that.
It would be neat, but we have a hard time getting everyone to get licensed. Then getting everyone to use radios that support aprs. Compare that to a $40 device that connects to your phone.

 

[Michael]

Any plan or thoughts on adding some off grid (out of cell range) location tracking feature to the app. A mobile mesh network.

Allowing group location status on the map, and sending messages without cell service.

Something along the lines of a Gotenna $100, or an open source LoRa device like TTGO T-Beam. $30. I lean towards the T-Beam.

I know some people use aprs with their radios, but a cheap piece of hardware that everyone can afford and use with the app would be a neat feature.

An off-road Team Awareness Kit.

GarthVH | Etsy
Meshtastic
Meshtastic Mesh Networking Project Combines ESP32, LoRa and GPS Radio - CNX Software (cnx-software.com)
Meshtastic Mesh Network – Wyoming Survival (wordpress.com)
Text & GPS on your phone without cell, wifi, or satellite. (gotennamesh.com)

I like the idea and have done some research on implementing an interface with a sat comm device. Preliminary findings are that it is quite complex to choose a device to support, and then develop the interface. It is something we may pursue however. Makes a lot of sense for our community.

 

[Ahoward2k]

Sorry hadn't seen you mention aprs
I look at it this way. It only takes a tech license, we are pushing people to get their tech license already, and many mid tier and up radios natively support APRS. It's worth looking at down the road

 

[TheBison]

MY local ARES group is pushing GoTenna. Not a lot of experience with it yet personally, but it's an off-the-shelf option that is already established.

 

[er waddell]

I like the idea and have done some research on implementing an interface with a sat comm device. Preliminary findings are that it is quite complex to choose a device to support, and then develop the interface. It is something we may pursue however. Makes a lot of sense for our community.

Michael,

I have been playing with 4 TTgo devices. Using an Android app called meshtastic.
The TTgo devices connect bluetooth to my phone. They are configured into a LoRa mesh network.
Simple sms messages are sent to all devices. Gps coordinates from each device with a gps receiver is forwarded to all devices as well.
One of my devices is without gps chips and acts as a LoRa router in a stationary location.
The simple map in the app shows the position of each of the ttgo devices.
I believe it is all opensource and could be tested without having to worry about device support for multiple sat coms devices.
The ttgo device is not without issues however. They are pretty much development boards.

The gotenna is a device (when available) that you can purchase at most outdoor stores. It is a commercially supported device.

 

[er waddell]

Sorry hadn't seen you mention aprs
I look at it this way. It only takes a tech license, we are pushing people to get their tech license already, and many mid tier and up radios natively support APRS. It's worth looking at down the road

I agree that having aprs radios with bluetooth connected tnc interfaces would be a great option. Having that gps information and messaging available through the One app would be very useful.
I use aprsdroid with an afsk audio connection to one of my handhelds that I have setup for aprs.


Anyway it is accomplished would be a benefit. To pull up the map and see members locations and be able to message them when out of cell range would be a great feature.

 

[Michael]

I like the idea and have done some research on implementing an interface with a sat comm device. Preliminary findings are that it is quite complex to choose a device to support, and then develop the interface. It is something we may pursue however. Makes a lot of sense for our community.

Michael,

I have been playing with 4 TTgo devices. Using an Android app called meshtastic.
The TTgo devices connect bluetooth to my phone. They are configured into a LoRa mesh network.
Simple sms messages are sent to all devices. Gps coordinates from each device with a gps receiver is forwarded to all devices as well.
One of my devices is without gps chips and acts as a LoRa router in a stationary location.
The simple map in the app shows the position of each of the ttgo devices.
I believe it is all opensource and could be tested without having to worry about device support for multiple sat coms devices.
The ttgo device is not without issues however. They are pretty much development boards.

The gotenna is a device (when available) that you can purchase at most outdoor stores. It is a commercially supported device.

I read the website and I don’t actually know what it does yet. For Garmin, I know there are no grey or blackout areas and I can navigate and 2-way text anywhere on the planet.

I don’t know how remote I can be with this. If I’m in the Sierra Mountains, can I text home? How remote can I get? What’s the range between two nodes?

That last question probably defines how interesting this can be. If two people can communicate 50 miles apart on the Mojave Road. Better than Ham?

 

[er waddell]

I read the website and I don’t actually know what it does yet. For Garmin, I know there are no grey or blackout areas and I can navigate and 2-way text anywhere on the planet.

I don’t know how remote I can be with this. If I’m in the Sierra Mountains, can I text home? How remote can I get? What’s the range between two nodes?

That last question probably defines how interesting this can be. If two people can communicate 50 miles apart on the Mojave Road. Better than Ham?

The devices are similar to GoTenna. They create a local mesh network. Low power radios that act as routers. To talk to D I may be relayed from A to C to B to D.
You would not be able to text home unless there was a device connected to the internet receiving and relaying.

I see it differently than using my Montana 700i with inreach. More like a limited ATAK app.

I imagine using the Overland Bound app. On the map I see the other users around me but only when I have cell service. If we had gotenna, aprs, or ttgo connections we could see and connect when offline.

I see Member #0000 on the map at the ridge that I just drove 4 hours to get to.
Before I drive that last 20 minute climb.
I click on his icon and send a message.

"Michael. I know there are 2 good spots up there. Is the other one open?"

Or.

We are in a convoy and its super dusty. The drivers are all connected and I can watch progress from lead to tail on the map.


There may not be a demand, just offering up a suggestion.

 

[Michael]

The devices are similar to GoTenna. They create a local mesh network. Low power radios that act as routers. To talk to D I may be relayed from A to C to B to D.
You would not be able to text home unless there was a device connected to the internet receiving and relaying.

I see it differently than using my Montana 700i with inreach. More like a limited ATAK app.

I imagine using the Overland Bound app. On the map I see the other users around me but only when I have cell service. If we had gotenna, aprs, or ttgo connections we could see and connect when offline.

I see Member #0000 on the map at the ridge that I just drove 4 hours to get to.
Before I drive that last 20 minute climb.
I click on his icon and send a message.

"Michael. I know there are 2 good spots up there. Is the other one open?"

Or.

We are in a convoy and its super dusty. The drivers are all connected and I can watch progress from lead to tail on the map.


There may not be a demand, just offering up a suggestion.

Is the reception and distance better than Ham? I think I understand the concept, but I don't understand performance. What advantage does this give me over Ham + Garmin?

I can see using this with the app - and how that might work - probably easier than APRS.

 

[old_man]

Is the reception and distance better than Ham? I think I understand the concept, but I don't understand performance. What advantage does this give me over Ham + Garmin?

I can see using this with the app - and how that might work - probably easier than APRS.

Mesh is cool, I designed and tested commercial mesh radios for one of the largest manufacturers, so I have lots of experience. The issue is that it is like a chain, with each link being a user with the right equipment and turned on. Link in the chain has to have communication to two other nodes. That means if any link in the chain is unable to communicate due to being turned off or not having line of sight to other radios, communications are lost. It works well in a fixed environment but not so much in mountains/hills. The message hops from radio to radio until you get to one that has communications to the network (cell tower).

APRS kind of works the same way, just different frequencies and power.

In flat country this is a lot easier due to the longer distances between radios that can be had. The bottom line is that if you want to work EVERYWHERE you need to go satellite.

 

[Michael]

Mesh is cool, I designed and tested commercial mesh radios for one of the largest manufacturers, so I have lots of experience. The issue is that it is like a chain, with each link being a user with the right equipment and turned on. Link in the chain has to have communication to two other nodes. That means if any link in the chain is unable to communicate due to being turned off or not having line of sight to other radios, communications are lost. It works well in a fixed environment but not so much in mountains/hills. The message hops from radio to radio until you get to one that has communications to the network (cell tower).

APRS kind of works the same way, just different frequencies and power.

In flat country this is a lot easier due to the longer distances between radios that can be had. The bottom line is that if you want to work EVERYWHERE you need to go satellite.

Thank you - got it.

We are developing a "Crew" feature that allows you to track specific people in the app while on a trip, and this could be good, and perhaps a simple implementation - but we're going for enhanced performance to Ham or Sat for a more reasonable price to Members. This is definitely something to consider.

 

[Prerunner1982]

I think Back Country navigator might be the only off road gps/route/map type app that shows APRS data so if OB1 did the same or do it better as in full send/receive/message it would put it another step above most/all other gps/route/map type apps.

 

[M Rose]

I think Back Country navigator might be the only off road gps/route/map type app that shows APRS data so if OB1 did the same or do it better as in full send/receive/message it would put it another step above most/all other gps/route/map type apps.

Cal-Topo also does, but only on web browser.